Democrats have depended on voter fraud for so long they will fight like hell to prevent the windows to fraud from being closed.
This case from history has all the bells and whistles of democrat voter fraud and corruption at its 'finest.' There were corruption, murder, payoffs, mobsters, fraud, crooked cops, crooked mayors, crooked politicians, prostitution, bribery, and more.
[b] The Insane 1930s Graft Investigation That Took Down New York's Mayor—and Then Tammany Hall When FDR found out how beholden New York politicians were to mobsters, he ordered the Seabury commission to investigate.
... prostitution: ... in 1923, he found her in bed with a man who wasn’t her husband. Believing her lover had paid her for sex, the police officer hauled her off to jail. She was imprisoned, convicted, and sentenced to time at an upstate reformatory.
But Vivian Gordon knew there was more to the story. She suspected that her estranged husband, a U.S. marshal, had arranged the arrest in retaliation for their upcoming divorce. And like hundreds of other women caught up in New York’s vicious cycle of “frame-ups,” she couldn’t do anything to fight it.
The cops were in on it. The judges were in on it. Even the lawyers who represented women accused of prostitution and petty crimes were in on it. But what Gordon could never have suspected was that her 1923 arrest would one day take down an entire political machine.
The front page of the New York Daily News on May 25, 1931, regarding the solved murder of Vivian Gordon.
... When she was murdered on February 25, 1931, Gordon unknowingly became part of one of the city’s most famous corruption investigations—and a central figure in a scandal that helped put an end to the dominance of New York’s Democratic political machine. Tammany Hall, the outgrowth of an 18th-century political society, had ruled New York’s Democratic Party (and the city itself) for over a century. In a time before public welfare, Tammany’s political bosses helped their hangers-on with everything from heating to health care, negotiating with landlords and sometimes paying in exchange for constituents’ votes. Party members provided strength in numbers, voting their candidates into office over and over again.
By the 1930s, Tammany had woven its way into every level of city politics—and it was controlled by the New York Mob. Graft and cronyism ruled many facets of city government, including the judicial system and police department. Elected officials handed out appointments to their friends, providing them with access to bribes and power, and most institutions prioritized helping Democrats who had shown their loyalty to Tammany instead of serving all constituents equally.
Allegations of judges and politicians beholden to gangsters prompted New York’s new governor, Franklin D. Roosevelt, to pursue a serious investigation of corruption in the city in 1930. In response, the New York State Legislature formed the Hofstadter Committee, a joint legislative committee headed by State Senator Samuel Hofstadter. It appointed Samuel Seabury, an anti-Tammany Democrat, prominent lawyer and past judge, as legal counsel.
... The task force suspected that the justice system and the rest of the city’s administration thrived on bribes and power shares that were handed out by Tammany Hall Democrats and which benefited party members. They quickly homed in on “frame-ups,” a practice by which police officers framed innocent women for financial gain.
... Seabury and the commission suspected frame-ups were common. But it would take a murder to illuminate just how unscrupulous the courts had become. The commission was already in full swing in 1931, when Gordon was found strangled to death in a Bronx park. Her death intrigued the public and caught Roosevelt’s eye. He ordered Seabury to look into her murder.
... But the Seabury commission was less interested in Gordon’s prostitution than her 1923 arrest. She had long suspected she was the victim of a frame-up arranged by her ex-husband, John Bischoff. When Gordon was subsequently sentenced to a reformatory, Bischoff had gotten custody of their daughter, Benita. Gordon’s supposedly sordid life was justification enough for judges to repeatedly deny her custody over the years. When Gordon heard about the Seabury commission, she wrote to both her ex-husband and the cop who had arrested her, telling them she planned to reveal the frame-up. She had even spoken with an attorney about testifying for the commission. Within days of sending the letter, she was murdered.
The Gordon case gave Seabury reason to dig even deeper into frame-ups. Special hearings about Gordon’s earlier arrest revealed that the police officer who had arrested her had received tens of thousands of dollars for his vice work despite a salary of $3,000 a year. They also provided Seabury with leads on the justice system’s connections to mobsters and party bosses.
“It is impossible to estimate how many honest women in this city have been gouged under threat of arrest or conviction of a crime which they were totally innocent;” wrote Seabury, “but enough testimony has been given on this subject to indicate that the business of framing honest women was very well established and lucrative.”
The Downfall of Tammany Hall Encouraged by Seabury’s work rooting out corruption in the courts, Roosevelt expanded the investigation. Eventually it grew to include investigations into the District Attorney’s office and finally into every department in New York city government. The testimony of 1,000 New Yorkers revealed sheriffs with massive savings, loans to fictitious relatives and a rigged bidding process.
Finally, New York’s Democratic mayor, James J. Walker, found himself in Seabury’s crosshairs. A special investigation into his conduct revealed the existence of a slush fund politicians and businesspeople used to curry his favor and a record of dirty dealings with contractors. “All told,” writes Jonathan Mahler for New York, “the mayor himself had accepted $1 million in bribes.”
Walker stepped down in disgrace and Fiorello LaGuardia, a reform-minded Republican, replaced him. The scandal marked the end a political era. For years, Tammany Hall had put a price on every city service, from permits to political patronage. Now, its inner workings had been revealed. [/b]
@OggggO I've been around enough criminal types to know you don't have to be a genius in order to be a criminal mastermind. You just have to be devious.
@marke says [quote] Democrats either refuse to believe voter fraud is real or they refuse to admit voter fraud is real. [/quote] That is [big]FALSE!!![/big]
I'm putting my conclusions up top because I don't trust you to read all the way thru. My numbers are all substantiated by references below.
Conservatives' solution to illegal in-person voting disenfranchises 300 to 16000 valid legal voters for every illegal voter it prevents. That is UNCONSCIONABLE as well as UNCONSTITUTIONAL. You are in a MORAL PANIC over trivial amounts of illegal voting. You only get away with it because the crime of disenfranchising a voter carries no penalty.
You are welcome to address the minuscule problem of illegal in person voting, but NOT AT THAT COST!!! No wonder you are suspected of ulterior motives!!!
Voter fraud has been studied widely, and results published in peer reviewed journals. Democrats don't say it doesn't exist, they say in person illegal voting is [i]minimal[/i] and that your proposed solutions are [i]far worse[/i] than the problem. Now do me the courtesy of actually reading what I post so that I don't have to repeat it to you bit by bit.
[sep][sep][sep] Take, for example, [u]this[/u] study of double voting in the 2012 election. Researchers from Stanford, Harvard and Yale universities investigated how often a person with the same first name, last name and birthdate voted in more than one location. The authors used a model to estimate how many people in the U.S. are share the same name and birthdate. They used that model to estimate how many people in the U.S. have voted twice in the same election. Assuming there were no errors in voter registration records, their analysis found that at most 0.02 percent of the votes cast in 2012 were double votes. But they noted that many, if not all, of these apparent double votes could be a result of measurement error in their model. They also found that a cross-checking strategy designed to purge duplicate voters would eliminate 300 legitimate registrations (where two distinct people had the same name and birthdate) for every registration used to cast a double vote. *[b]https://5harad.com/papers/1p1v.pdf[/b]
A [u]separate systematic review[/u] by a political science professor at Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law meticulously investigated voter fraud. (It is important to note that he defines voter fraud as a voter casting a ballot even though he or she is ineligible. This is different from accidental errors by voters or election officials or intentional misconduct by an election official or candidate.) [b]https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/truth-about-voter-fraud[/b]
The review looks at specific allegations of voter fraud – typically identified in newspaper stories – and then follows up to find out if there were actual instances of fraud. In the all of the cases, the author finds the fraud is much smaller than originally believed or the result of a clerical or technical error. For example, in 2005, a Michigan newspaper article announced that 132 votes were alleged to have been cast by deceased voters because election officials did not properly match death records and voting lists. The Michigan Secretary of State launched an investigation and found that the “dead voters” actually used absentee ballots. Of the 132 problematic votes, 97 of the ballots were never cast and 27 people voted by absentee ballot before they passed away. Assuming the remaining 8 ballots were actual fraud (which the investigation was not able to prove) indicates that 0.0027 percent of votes in this specific election were fraudulent – not enough to make a difference in the result.
In a [u]related column[/u] published in the Washington Post, this same author lists every instance of alleged voter fraud that he is able to find across the country and follows up to find out if there were actual fraudulent votes cast. Between 2000 and 2014, he found 31 instances of voter fraud in total the U.S. in any election – general, primary, special or municipal elections. Over that same period, in general and primary elections alone, U.S. voters cast more than 1 billion votes – leading to a minuscule rate of voter fraud. [b]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/06/a-comprehensive-investigation-of-voter-impersonation-finds-31-credible-incidents-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/[/b] [sep][sep][sep] [b]https://evidencebasedliving.human.cornell.edu/2020/10/21/what-research-tells-us-about-voter-fraud/[/b]
Lemme highlight a few points for you: [b] (1) They also found that a cross-checking strategy designed to purge duplicate voters would eliminate 300 legitimate registrations (where two distinct people had the same name and birthdate) for every registration used to cast a double vote.[/b] Got that? The naive purging strategy purged 300 valid legal voters for every cheater. I ask you honestly, is that worth the price? Is it worth it to strip 300 citizens of their right to vote for every cheater you catch???
[b](2) Assuming the remaining 8 ballots were actual fraud (which the investigation was not able to prove) indicates that 0.0027 percent of votes in this specific election were fraudulent – not enough to make a difference in the result.[/b] Got that? Eight unaccounted-for ballots in the whole state of Michigan. On recounts, we usually see that many errors PER COUNTY!! In other words, it's a level of discrepancy that you cons never worry - about except when you're in your MORAL PANIC about alleged illegal votes!!
[b](3) Between 2000 and 2014, he found 31 instances of convicted voter fraud in total the U.S. in any election – general, primary, special or municipal elections. Over that same period, in general and primary elections alone, U.S. voters cast more than 1 billion votes[/b] Got that? 31 instances of in person illegal voting out of 1 billion votes cast. Can you do that percentage?? Again, it's far smaller than typical counting error. You guys are in a MORAL PANIC about 0.0000031 PERCENT of the vote!!!
Let's assume that for every cheater caught, 20 get away with illegal voting - so 620 illegal votes in that period. Wow, that raises the fraction to 0.000061 PERCENT of the vote!!!
And the voter ID solutions implemented block 1% to 2% of valid legal voters!! (Brennan center.) You guys would disenfranchise TEN MILLION VOTERS to catch 620!! That's SIXTEEN THOUSAND legal voters disenfranchised for every illegal voter blocked. By any measure, that's INSANITY.
Voter fraud does occur. But in person voter fraud - the kind you are in a MORAL PANIC about - is extremely rare; a handful every election. And your proposed solutions block MILLIONS of valid voters per election. So how crazy is it to have the suspician that your real intent is to block valid voters - such as the working poor - and the handful of illegal in person votes per election is just an EXCUSE??
@ElwoodBlues [quote]Finding no evidence to support does not mean finding evidence to totally refute. Look up "proving nonexistence." [b][c=BF0000]Look up the silliness of claiming proof that finding no evidence of fraud is the same as proof fraud must not have occurred.[/c][/b]
Here's the general form of your fallacy: Logical Form:
I cannot prove that X exists, so you prove that it doesn’t. [b][c=BF0000]That is not what is at issue here. The proponent of the article claiming to have refuted the fact that 3,987 illegals voted by saying she could not prove that is not a refutation at all. [/c][/b]
If you can’t, X exists.
Nope. You didn't establish the existence of cheating in Nevada. You just used a new (to you) logical fallacy.[b][c=BF0000]In other words, fraud was neither proven nor disproven.[/c][/b]
The refutation claim asserts without documentation Yeah, maybe the Nevada Republican Secretary of State LIED and didn't conduct an investigation!!! Oh, wait, 20 seconds of googling turned it up, LOL!!! https://www.nvsos.gov/sos/home/showpublisheddocument?id=9428
All those objections essentially amount to "Yeah but maybe Nevada's republican Secy of State LiEd. Yeah but maybe she's part of a GiAnTt CoNsPiRaCy!!" They are bulllshitt nitpicks, with no new facts. [/quote]
@ElwoodBlues[quote] Yeah, maybe the Nevada Republican Secretary of State LIED and didn't conduct an investigation!!! Oh, wait, 20 seconds of googling turned it up, LOL!!! https://www.nvsos.gov/sos/home/showpublisheddocument?id=9428
All those objections essentially amount to "Yeah but maybe Nevada's republican Secy of State LiEd. Yeah but maybe she's part of a GiAnTt CoNsPiRaCy!!" They are bulllshitt nitpicks, with no new facts. [/quote]
The SOS received the info and here is what she said:
[b]On March 4, 2021, members of the Nevada GOP (“NVGOP”) delivered four boxes to the Capitol building in Carson City. After applying security protocols, the Capitol Police delivered the four boxes to the Office of the Secretary of State. Over the following weeks, the elections staff inventoried and labeled the boxes and their contents and investigated the accompanying allegations of voter fraud. This consumed more than 125 hours of staff time.
Although the NVGOP’s initial reports indicated that there were 122,918 records to support the accompanying allegations, the agency inventory identified 3,963 unique Elections Integrity Violation Reports (EIVRs). The larger figure provided by the NVGOP encompasses the individual line items on the spreadsheets that accompanied each of the EIVRs. Ultimately 3,963 unique EIVRs were counted along with 3 business cards and 1 USB drive.[b][c=BF0000] Our investigation into these documents revealed that some incidents were already under investigation. [/b] [/c][/b]
Perhaps we should hold off judgment until they finish their ongoing investigations into allegations the voter fraud opponents claimed should be investigated.
@marke You play fast and loose with the word "proof." As a former student of some serious calculus courses, I know what proof looks like in math. I majored in physics; they don't say Newton's laws are "proven;" they say Newton's laws make extremely accurate predictions. In courts of law, nothing is ever "proven." The standard in a criminal trial is "beyond a reasonable doubt."
[quote] That hardly proves none of the remaining 18,314 voters cast only one ballot.[/quote] Lawyers & judges understand that "proof of innocence" is an absurd demand that would only be made in a totalitarian system. And yet that is what you demand, [b]LOL!!![/b]
[quote]Look up the silliness of claiming proof that finding no evidence of fraud is the same as proof fraud must not have occurred. [/quote] NV GOP essentially accused a bunch of people of the crime of election fraud. NV republican SOS investigated these accusations, found no evidence to support the accusations.
Yet you want to let the accusations stand until proven false. That's not how justice works in the USA. No evidence of crime == innocence. Deal with it.
[quote] The proponent of the article claiming to have refuted the fact that 3,987 illegals voted by saying she could not prove that is not a refutation at all. [/quote] NO. That's NOT what SOS said. Here's the quote: "the 'generalized information' was inconclusive and could not be substantiate the allegations." Insufficient evidence of a crime == innocence. That's how justice works in the USA. Deal with it.
[quote]In other words, fraud was neither proven nor disproven.[/quote] The accusations couldn't be substantiated. Insufficient evidence of a crime == innocence. That's how justice works in the USA. Deal with it.
The excuses against voter ID are ridiculous. The left loves to drop the race card, implying some people of color are unable to get one. Which is racist in and of itself. No adult can function in society today without a photo ID. Some states require an ID to vote. That needs to be nationwide.
No one can function in society without a photo ID. You need one to: 1. Buy alcohol 2. Buy cigarettes 3. Opening a bank account 4. Apply for food stamps 5. Apply for welfare 6. Apply for Medicaid/Social Security 7. Apply for unemployment or a job 8. Rent/buy a house, apply for a mortgage 9. Drive/buy/rent a car 10. Get on an airplane 11. Get married 12. Purchase a gun 13. Adopt a pet 14. Rent a hotel room 15. Apply for a hunting license 16. Apply for a fishing license 17. Buy a cell phone 18. Visit a casino 19. Pick up a prescription 20. Hold a rally or protest 21. Blood donations 22. Buy an "M" rated video game 23. Purchase nail polish at CVS 24. Purchase certain cold medicines
But requiring a photo ID to vote is somehow racist. 🙄
@BizSuitStacy Amen, that is exactly what I'm saying, what is the problem asking people to hav ids for voting when you have to have an id to function in this country
@marke says: [quote]Recent evidence has proven voter IDs do not inhibit voter turnout.[/quote]
I eagerly await your posting of this evidence!! In the meantime, the evidence says that current ID requirements DO reduce voter turnout by 2 to 3%. Like I said, I'm very interested in your counter-evidence.
[quote]Voter ID laws have been estimated by the U.S. Government Accountability Office to reduce voter turnout by 2-3 percentage points, translating to tens of thousands of votes lost in a single state. [/quote] https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/block-the-vote-voter-suppression-in-2020/
Also see: "A disproportionate burden: strict voter identification laws and minority turnout" [b]https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/21565503.2020.1773280[/b]
@ElwoodBlues[quote] "Budget constraints" are NOT a law of the universe.
"Budget constraints" are an expression of legislative choices.
"Budget constraints" are a transparent attempt to hide disenfranchisement practices behind fancy verbiage.
In short, "budget constraints" are BULLLLSHIIIITT!!![/quote]
Leftists believe the government is made of money and any government official struggling to pay bills in localities suffering from money shortages is just a racist.
@marke No counter-argument; tossing insults instead. I'll take that lack of counter-argument as a concession of defeat. Thanks, I will try to be graceful in my victory!!!
@marke [quote]Leftists believe the government is made of money and any government official struggling to pay bills in localities suffering from money shortages is just a racist.[/quote]
African Americans face more restrictions in securing gun licenses. So there are fewer blacks with licenses. Students are more likely to vote Democrat. They also move often...change colleges, leave campus digs for off campus accomodation and some go home. So it's difficult to prove residence. Older economically disadvantaged voters don't drive and don't have ids
What's wrong is that Republicans have been actively involved in voter suppression for 50 years. Why? because this country is becoming less white. And that's a threat to white supremacists. Republicans are masters of projection. To put it bluntly, they are criminal opportunist grifters benton destroying democracy. And mark my words, they are coming for your social security.
@marke claims [quote]Funeral Embalmer: 85% of Dead Bodies Now Have Strange Blood Clots Since COVID-19 Vaccine Roll-outs (exposingtheirlies.com)[/quote] Wow, who knew embalmers studied the internal organs of the bodies they embalm??
Oh, wait, unless the body has already been autopsied, they DON'T!!! According to [b]https://www.legacy.com/advice/the-embalming-process-how-it-works/[/b]
[sep][sep][sep] [b]The Embalming Process: How it Works[/b]
[u]Arterial Embalming[/u]
Arterial embalming is begun by injecting embalming fluid into an artery while blood is drained via a vein. Typically about two gallons of embalming fluid — consisting of formaldehyde or other chemicals, mixed with water — is needed for arterial embalming. The blood is generally disposed of via the sewer system. This step is complete once all blood has been replaced with embalming fluid.
[u]Cavity Embalming[/u]
Cavity embalming follows arterial embalming. This process only takes place when a body was not autopsied. Cavity embalming begins as the embalmer uses a device called a trocar (basically, a hollow tube with a point on one end and a seal on the other) to puncture the stomach, bladder, large intestines, lungs, and other hollow organs. Suction is then used to aspirate out the fluid and gas that has collected in the organs.
The embalmer then pumps embalming fluid into the torso, where it will fill empty spaces including those created by suctioning the fluid and gas from the organs. The embalming fluid used for cavity embalming is stronger than that used for arterial embalming. Ideally, both the aspiration and addition of embalming fluid are done through small punctures in the torso, which can then be sealed with a small plastic cap called a trocar button. The vagina and anus might also be sealed with cotton to prevent fluid leaking. [sep][sep][sep]
Examining the organs and searching for clots? NOT PART OF THE EMBALMING PROCESS!!! They might see a few clots as they replace blood with fluid, but that's in no way a medical survey of clots! If an embalmer is looking at organs, it's because the body was ALREADY AUTOPSIED!! And autopsied bodies are NOT a randomly sampled subset. They are a specially selected subset!! Which means you can't draw conclusions about the general population from a specially selected subset during a pandemic!!!
Now let's talk about death certificates. Death certificates are filed by medical examiners, people with MD degrees who specialize in pathology. They are employed by cities and counties all across the nation. They are highly decentralized. They don't work for the CDC. Congress doesn't pay their paychecks.
So what would it take for thousands of medical examiners, highly trained professionals sworn to the Hippocratic Oath, separately employed by cities and counties all across the nation, to work together to suppress information about "85% of Dead Bodies Now Have Strange Blood Clots Since COVID-19 Vaccine Roll-outs"?? What would it take???
Well, it would take a GiAnTt CoNsPiRaCy!!! With no leakers and no whistleblowers!!! Honestly, what is the probability of that as compared with the probability of two embalmers stretching the 'truth' a little? I'll reiterate, embalmers who DON'T examine all the organs of every body they come across, who DON'T record statistics of what they see.
Did you know that Covid also causes clots? Yes it does. And since embalmers don't have access to medical histories, how do they know if the clots are associated with vaccine? Did you know that clots often occur post mortem?? How do you connect post-mortem clots with a vaccine? Did the embalmers run a histological analysis on the clots? Of course not!!
Now let's see, what do other embalmers say??
[sep][sep][sep] Abnormal clots were found in COVID-19 victims "long before vaccinations were available," said licensed embalmer Monica Torres, of NXT Generation Mortuary Support in Phoenix, "and it is not uncommon to find dark blood clots in any deceased, not just COVID persons, who have been stored in refrigeration for a long period of time before embalming."
The National Funeral Directors Association, a U.S. professional organization, told PolitiFact that embalmers in its network have noticed similar abnormalities in COVID-related deaths, but among both the vaccinated and unvaccinated.
"It’s only anecdotal evidence, and there’s no scientific evidence to draw any conclusions," said Jessica Koth, director of public relations for the association. [sep][sep][sep]
In short, others in the funerary industry do NOT support the correlation of abnormal clots with the vaccine - THEY see a correlation with COVID!!!
I'm sorry, I've shot your 'embalmer' argument so full of holes it'll need a closed casket funeral. RIP.
@marke What's this?? You IGNORED what I wrote about VAERS?? You really look silly when you ignore me, LOL!!!
VAERS https://vaers.hhs.gov/faq.html [quote]Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) What is VAERS ... VAERS is not designed to detect if a vaccine caused an adverse event, but it can identify unusual or unexpected patterns of reporting that might indicate possible safety problems requiring a closer look.[/quote]
Anybody can post anything they want on VAERS. A guy posted to VAERS that a flu vaccine turned him into the incredible hulk. True story; I gave you the details elsewhere but you ignored them.
Yeah, anti-vaxxers have filled VAERS with lies and garbage that's why VAERS posts their disclaimer. But you didn't read the disclaimer, did you??
[quote]Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) What is VAERS ... VAERS is not designed to detect if a vaccine caused an adverse event, but it can identify unusual or unexpected patterns of reporting that might indicate possible safety problems requiring a closer look.[/quote]
Maybe you need to see it in a bigger font: [big]Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) What is VAERS ... VAERS is not designed to detect if a vaccine caused an adverse event, but it can identify unusual or unexpected patterns of reporting that might indicate possible safety problems requiring a closer look.[/big]
@ElwoodBlues I believe VAERS includes effects like discomfort at the injection site, and flu-like symptoms in the days immediately following. Both of these are EXPECTED side effects and an indication that the vaccine is doing exactly what it is designed to do, which is elicit an immune response.
@windinhishair This. Exactly this. These people understand that when a flu vaccine gives you flu-like symptoms, that means it's working, but they can't seem to apply the same logic to COVID vaccines.
First, there are almost no examples of in-person voter fraud, and when there are, more often than not, it's Republicans doing it. None has ever been found sufficient to sway an election. The theory that "millions of illegal aliens voted" to give Biden the victory is unsubstantiated BS that Republicans are using as an excuse to suppress legitimate voters.
I would, however, support issuing a free national ID card to all citizens, as many other countries do. By "free," I don't just mean not charging for the card, but also not charging people for obtaining their birth certificates or other documentation, including paying them to travel or miss work if they needed time to collect this material. Also, it's not just people who never had ID. This also includes people whose ID has expired. They can use an expired ID to buy alcohol, get a prescription, and even get a job if no one is paying attention, but not to vote.
@OggggO Those are the same people who think his stunt of flying illegal immigrants to Martha's Vineyard was hilarious. He should face charges for human trafficking, same as those guys busted in the Blooming Onion case last year, but unfortunately it won't happen.
@BizSuitStacy You say EVERYTHING hat needs to be said. Period. Those who oppose Ids for voting refuse to address the issue. It DOESN'T matter WHY this is an issue today. Its here and its not going away. The fact that they didn't say " fine, lets recount lets do anything we need to to shut you guys up. We have absolutely nothing to fear, Biden won." instead of saying we had no reason or right to question the election. A good citizen questions the government.
Democrats have voted against certifying elections in recent elections. Why weren't republican senators allowed the same constitutional right ? Would it have worked ? Probably not. But they had the RIGHT and RESPONSIBILITY to their constituents to do exactly that. The validity of our elections should have been questioned a long time ago, but because the 2016 and especially the 2020 election was so passionate and about Trump it is suddenly un-american to question. There no way to know for sure, but I personally don't think jan 6 would have happened the way it did if our senators would have been able to use this constitutional right.
Democrats have spent 6 yrs soon to be 7 doing nothing but trashing President Trump. They impeached him twice, trying to ensure that he never be allowed to serve again.. Where has that gotten them ? More passionate supporters, even a few moderate democrats because their party is nothing but hate now.
My original question IS simply what is the problem with asking all LEGAL citizens have a picture ID to vote ? Free IDs with a mobil unit going anywhere to ensure that it is made available? Unless they want illegals to vote this shouldn't be a problem
@missyann Ask California. Meanwhile, have investigators turned up a SINGLE ONE of the alleged ballots printed by foreign countries? Nope. This was a flat out lie by Trump!
If the machines were altering the count like Trump claimed, how come the hand count matched the machine count so closely??? [quote]In all, there were 126 counties within 10 votes of their original vote tally, according to the audit data. Of those counties, 54 counties matched their initial results exactly. No county had an error rate higher than 0.73% compared to their original results.[/quote] https://www.ajc.com/politics/breaking-georgia-manual-recount-confirms-biden-victory/B7LNNHYZOVGKZBUVAT7NZT3VZE/
Cons still believe these lies despite ZERO evidence![b]SAD!![/b]
@ElwoodBlues [quote]And how many of those names were involved in illegal voting?? ZERO, right??? [/quote]
That may be what you think but nobody has proved that to be true. Democrats either refuse to believe voter fraud is real or they refuse to admit voter fraud is real. How do they know that none of the more than 1 million ineligible voters on LA voter rolls did not vote illegally? They don't, but they still naively claim that it did not happen. Voter fraud deniers said the same thing about illegals voting in Texas, even though the deniers were wrong.
[b]Some of those Trump opponents don’t believe the latest numbers, particularly in Texas, where Hispanic activists sued to stop a potential purge of the noncitizen names that the state identified. ________________________________________ ________________________________________ “It’s clear that the right-wing elements in Texas government are trying to rig the system to keep power and disenfranchise 95,000 American citizens,” said Domingo Garcia, national president of the League of United Latin American Citizens. “There is no voter fraud in Texas. It’s a lie repeated time and again to suppress minority voters, and we’re going to fight hard against it.” Texas Secretary of State David Whitley used state driver’s license records, which include immigration status, and compared those with voter rolls. He found that about 95,000 people whom the state says weren’t citizens were among the 16 million registered voters. Of those, about 58,000 had voted at some point since 1996. [/b]
@LordShadowfire [quote]Illegal immigrants aren't allowed to vote! Show me definitive evidence of them voting illegally.[/quote]
Illegals have been voting in Americans for decades. Why do you think democrats fight to keep our borders open no matter how many billions of dollars it costs Americans to do so?
[b]REPORT: 5500+ NONCITIZENS DISCOVERED ON VOTER ROLLS IN VIRGINIA Published On: May 29th, 2017 One Third of Noncitizens Found Voted Illegally
(ALEXANDRIA, VA.) – May 30, 2017: The Public Interest Legal Foundation (PILF) today released Alien Invasion II, a sequel to the original Alien Invasion alien voting report originally circulated in 2016. After three lawsuits, scores of record requests, and reviews voter history files across 133 Virginia jurisdictions, the Public Interest Legal Foundation has uncovered the following: • Virginia election officials quietly removed 5,556 voters for non-citizenship between 2011 and May 2017; • 1,852 of those removed as noncitizens cast ballots;[/b]
@LordShadowfire[quote] So, your source for all your claims is a conspiracy website. Why am I not surprised?[/quote]
The facts are not conspiracies. Democrats refused to obey federal voting laws by having their voting rolls purged of names no longer eligible to vote, then sent mail-in ballots to everyone on the list, resulting in thousands of ballots that have not been verified and will likely never be verified as legitimate. That is voter fraud due to protections of voter fraud.
@missyann Okay, this I absolutely agree with. The problem of belief in voter fraud is there. On purpose. Because it is a scam.
There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud and there never has been. What people do instead is that they point at something which is either not understood or poorly explained, and then claim it is evidence of voter fraud.
So the answer is make voting harder. Stop early voting, stop mail in voting, bring in voter IDs. [b]Make voting harder.[/b]
Have you been poor? I have. When you're poor you can get to a registry easy, you can't take time off of your four jobs, you can't get transit or a car to get things sorted out. The more barriers you put in place of voting, the fewer poor people vote.
And wow, look at the skin colour of those poor people who suddenly have a hard time voting.
By inventing a voter fraud problem, you use it as a justification to bring in actual election rigging. Because this isn't about fairness, it's about [b]winning.[/b] Look at the gerrymandering done by Republicans, and tell me they give a shit about fairness in elections.
Trump told the same lie three different times and the rubes fell for it every time. 1. Democrats stole the election
2. In 2016, after Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) won the Republican primary in Iowa, Trump accused him of stealing the election. “Ted Cruz didn’t win Iowa, he stole it,” Trump wrote. “That is why all of the polls were so wrong and why he got far more votes than anticipated. Bad!”
3. 2016 .Lied about voter fraud claiming he won the popular vote
I mean how much of a sucker you have to be to fall for the same con three times?…..l
@marke Stupider might be pretending "Mexico will pay for the wall," then building a 'wall' so poorly designed that is so easy to cut thru that smugglers cut thru it multiple times per night!!!
"show that suspected smuggling gangs managed to hack through the heavy steel bollards making up the fence 3,272 times between 2019 and 2021." [b]https://fox4kc.com/news/smugglers-cut-through-trump-border-wall-over-3000-times-report-says/[/b]
Turns out Trump's "big beautiful wall" can be sawed thru in a few minutes with $100 worth of cordless tools. And smugglers have been doing it three times a night for at least three years!!
@ElwoodBlues[quote] Stupider might be pretending "Mexico will pay for the wall," then building a 'wall' so poorly designed that is so easy to cut thru that smugglers cut thru it multiple times per night!!![/quote]
Democrats are wetting themselves with glee. Trump was not able to stop the democrat-inspired and democrat-supported southern invasion of the US by hordes of untrackable foreigners on unidentified missions.
@marke claims [quote]We know officials have lied about the vaccine. We know pressure has been put on media outlets to shut down unfavorable reports about covid vaccines. And yet we are seeing such an alarming increase in the deaths of young athletes and medical professionals linked to sudden onsets of myocarditis and other vaccine-related side effects that we should ignore the popular hype and dig deeper into what is really happening that may not be given fair audience in the public media.
This is worth raising alarms and advocating for further investigations:
Funeral Embalmer: 85% of Dead Bodies Now Have Strange Blood Clots Since COVID-19 Vaccine Roll-outs (exposingtheirlies.com)[/quote]
There's a LOT to unpack here. Let's start with [quote]We know officials have lied[/quote] Yeah, EIGHT officials from the Trump admin were convicted of LYING UNDER OATH about their connections with Russia. But you still believe the Trumpsters. LYING doesn't actually matter to you. And - this is important - nobody lied about the vaccine. They reported what the data said at the time. When conditions in the field change, reports and recommendations change. Nobody lied about the vaccine. Dr Birx said in hindsight she should have focused more on reducing hospitalizations and deaths. She never said anyone lied. Hindsight gave her a better PR strategy; nothing more.
[quote]We know pressure has been put [/quote] Actually, no, we don't know that at all. That's another unsubstantiated right-wing conspiracy theory. Nice try!!
[quote]such an alarming increase in the deaths of young athletes[/quote] This claim, too, has been debunked. The evidence points to a small DROP in deaths of young athletes.
This article, "FIFA Sudden Death Registry (FIFA-SDR): a prospective, observational study of sudden death in worldwide football from 2014 to 2018" says 617 FIFA players died of SCD within an hour of playing over a 5 year period = 123 per year (2014-2018). [b]https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/56/2/80[/b]
And this article says about 108 died in 2021 - a [b][i]reduction[/i][/b] in the FIFA death rate after vaccination!! [b]https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-coronavirus-sport/fact-check-list-of-108-fifa-soccer-players-is-not-proof-of-a-common-link-between-covid-19-vaccines-and-athlete-deaths-idUSL1N2T81NY[/b]
Note: I'm making no statistical claims about the drop in FIFA deaths during the 2021 vaccination year; merely pointing out how wrong the anti-vaxxers got it.
[quote]sudden onsets of myocarditis[/quote] Myocarditis (inflammation of the heart muscle) is SEVEN TIMES more common after Covid than after vaccine. [b]https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/967801[/b] If you're worried about myocarditis, you are FAR safer taking the vaccine.
META studies of myocarditis! [b]https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcvm.2022.951314/full[/b] [quote]A total of 763 studies were screened. The exclusion process yielded 22 studies conducted in eight countries and three WHO regions. The baseline characteristics of the studies included in the meta-analysis are presented in Table 1. Included studies consisted of 58 million persons, with 55.5 million in the vaccination cohort and 2.5 million in the infection cohort (Table 1). Overall, median age was 49 years (interquartile range (IQR): 38–56), and 49% (IQR: 43–52%) were men.
. . .
This is the first systematic review and meta-analysis and the largest study to date of acute myocarditis after SARS-CoV-2 vaccination or infection that estimate the risk ratio of myocarditis due to SARS-CoV-2 infection vs. COVID-19 vaccination. We found that the risk of myocarditis increased by a factor of 2 and 15 after vaccination and infection, respectively. This translates into more than a 7-fold higher risk in the infection group compared to the vaccination group. [/quote]
PS, most vaccine myocarditis cases clear up in 2 or 3 weeks. Covid myocarditis can last 2 to 3 MONTHS [b]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8890406/[/b] [sep] Initial reports based on magnetic resonance imaging studies showed 78% of patients with myocardial abnormalities and 60% with ongoing myocarditis 2 to 3 months after COVID-19 infection.[sep]
[sep][sep][sep]
That's a lot of verbiage here, but the takeaway messages are clear. (1) When CDC recommendations change, it's because DATA and CONDITIONS change. It's not "lying;" it's responding to newer better data.
(2) There's no evidence of higher death rates among young athletes. People making that claim failed to compare with baseline death rates. In short, they cherry-picked.
(3) It's true that overall the vaccines increased rates of myocarditis by a factor of 2. However, Covid infection increased rates of myocarditis by a factor of 15! I'm sorry that the vaccine isn't perfect, but the fact remains - the vaccine is FAR FAR safer than facing Covid unprotected.
[sep][sep][sep]
You've also reported claims by a funeral embalmer. This post is long enough, so I'll deal with that in a separate post. I'll just mention here you are comparing reports of a single funeral embalmer vs a nation full of medical examiners with MD degrees and access to patient health histories plus hospital reports. Did you know Covid infection can ALSO cause blood clots??
Don't worry, I'm gonna have fun picking that embalmer's claim apart too!!!
@marke says [quote]Democrat rain dancers still sell their miracle covid cure to besotted saps who never doubt their lying sales pitches.[/quote] [c=BF0000]DEAD WRONG.[/c] A quick glance at death counts PROVES how effective the vaccine has been.
In 2021, the 75% of Americans fully vaccinated produced under 20% of the Covid deaths, while the 25% unvaccinated Americans produced over 80% of the Covid deaths.
In 2021, the 75% of Americans fully vaccinated produced under 31% of Covid cases; while the 25% unvaccinated Americans produced nearly 70% of Covid cases.
This means the US unvaccinated had a 5X higher chance of contracting Covid compared to the vaccinated per capita, and that overall the unvaccinated had about a 15X higher probability of Covid death per capita.
Note: since 'Long Covid' occurs in 15% to 25% of Covid cases, that means there is also a 5X higher prevalence of Long Covid per capita among the unvaccinated.
Sources and further details at https://similarworlds.com/disease-illness/vaccines/4268857-Covid-Vaccine-effectiveness-data-from-the-US-2021
@marke [quote]This report is presented by Phiser but fails to detail how the data was obtained, what were the research procedures and parameters, and what was the date of this report. [/quote]
Wait, aren't you the guy who was assuring us these vaccines were [b]UNTESTED???[/b]
The CDC page has links to data sources; mostly publications in refereed journals. Those publications may have further links to raw data, testing sites, etc.
The CDC requires phase 3 testing of all new drugs, and phase 3 includes very rigorous testing protocols. Chief among them is double blind placebo controlled. A drug company will hire independent outside core labs to conduct testing. They in turn will hire MDs and advertise for subject to enroll. Eventually the drug company will distribute identical looking drugs and placebos. These get randomized such that nobody knows who is getting placebo and who is getting the drug under test.
That's the double blind. The core labs don't know, the administering physicians don't know, the drug company doesn't know. Medical measurements are taken and recorded thru the course of the study. At the end, the drug co tells the core lab which was which; the core lab tells the physicians compiles the stats the physicians have recorded. It's very decentralized.
I can't tell you the specifics for these particular phase 3 studies, but the rigor has been there for along time; ever since an FDA regulator named Frances Kelsey found a company doing an unregulated clinical trial of a drug called thalidomide on American citizens.
Oh, one other point about phase 3 trials: up until recently something like two thirds of drugs failed in phase three.
Trump's "op warp speed" actually funded five different vaccines; only J&J and Moderna survived phase 3. I think Merck hadtwo viral vector vaccines that failed phase 3; I don't remember the 5th. If you're wondering about Pfizer, they received no op warp speed money in the US, but I think they got something similar in Germany.
@LeopoldBloom give me a break. you are an open book...complain about how hard it is to vote in your area, why don't you do something about it. hell the polls last 30 days in some states. you think voter registration suppresses voters to vote. I can tell you if one wants to vote they will. if they don't they wont...the dems talk about the election being stolen. they are accusing the GOP is going to steal the next election. you let the cat out of the bag...you are a diehard Democrat. you love the position the US is in. it is obvious.
@Canicu69 It’s the Republicans who bleat about every election they lose being stolen. But you may be correct that at least mild voter suppression doesn’t work or has the opposite effect. We definitely have a voter suppression problem here in Georgia, but people seem to be overcoming it as turnout so far has been record breaking. We’ll see if that keeps up on Election Day or if it’s just the early voting numbers. Outrage over the Dobbs decision and the draconian abortion restrictions here may be having more of an effect.
@LeopoldBloom There has been election fraud from the first one to present with both parties. There may not have been enough to overturn the 2020 election but one is too many and if there is one we know that there is more and these only encourages more. The 2020 election was the first time that citizens have demanded that this stop because the 2016 & 2020 election was the most passionate in history. Those found guilty should lose voting rights for life
I believe that we need to make it illegal to make or accept donations as this is the most obvious cheating today. We are allowing these politicians to bought by corporations. There is no reason why they need donations the RNC & DNC and the politicians themselves have more than enough money to run their own Campaigns.
This needs to STOP now. I see the 2024 election being even more passionate because of abortions and fraud Demanding picture IDs for those who can prove that they are legal citizens and paying for those who can't afford them is a start. This will benefit both parties not just one. Sadly we are going to need representatives from both parties to sign off on all aspects of the election process from registration to ballot counting.
Every adult should be given an ID and automatically registered to vote. Lost IDs should be easy to replace and good for life. That way, using voter ID for voter suppression will be in the past.
@marke Democrats want free and fair elections. Republicans want Republicans to vote, not Democrats, so they suppress votes likely to be Democrats. I use facts. You use unsupported stories and anecdotes and call them facts.
@windinhishair[quote] Democrats want free and fair elections. Republicans want Republicans to vote, not Democrats, so they suppress votes likely to be Democrats. I use facts. You use unsupported stories and anecdotes and call them facts.[/quote]
How exactly will voting securities hinder democrats while helping republicans? How are democrats helped when election security measures are eliminated?
@marke There are plenty of voting securities now. I have no problem with voter ID as long as it is free and every voter can easily get one. Republicans states suppress the vote by making it more difficult to obtain a voter ID for certain voters--those that just happen to vote more Democratic. In close elections, shenanigans like this can change the election result.
Give everyone an ID and register everyone to vote. There. Done.
When a ballot is submitted the vote is checked against that list.
If some one has already voted the ballot won’t be accepted and the perpetrator will be charged with fraud like the republicans were in PA,
If the name is not in the registration list the ballot is not accepted.
If you forge someone’s ID and try to vote ,you are risking that the person on the list never voted because if they did you would be charged with fraud,
@Ryderbike[quote] of course voter fraud exists. Every crime in the world exists. What does that have to do with anything? That’s the whole purpose of having systems in place so that when someone cheats the system they get caught. You need to learn to think. Either you’re drunk, stoned or you have a mental deficiency. [/quote]
Leftists, liberals, and deluded weenies don't think there is any harm done if democrats steal the election by fraud because in their mind the democrats are the voice of blacks who have been abused for hundreds of years. If the minority representing blacks steals the election from the majority then in one sense the majority deserves to have the election stolen from them.
@marke [quote]Leftists, liberals, and deluded weenies don't think there is any harm done if democrats steal the election by fraud[/quote] That is a lie, sir, and a racist one at that. You suggest that we cheat on behalf of persons of color, when it is the case that you lot cheat on behalf of the melanin deprived.
I've got [i]NO PROBLEM[/i] with the theory of voter ID, as long as it's free and easy. I [i]DO[/i] have a problem with the practice of making it differentially harder for the elderly & working poor. [b]https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/challenge-obtaining-voter-identification[/b]
[sep][sep][sep] Voter ID laws have been estimated by the U.S. Government Accountability Office to reduce voter turnout by 2-3 percentage points, translating to tens of thousands of votes lost in a single state. [sep][sep][sep] https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/block-the-vote-voter-suppression-in-2020/
[quote]I've got NO PROBLEM with the theory of voter ID, as long as it's free and easy. I DO have a problem with the practice of making it differentially harder for the elderly & working poor. https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/challenge-obtaining-voter-identification
Voter ID laws have been estimated by the U.S. Government Accountability Office to reduce voter turnout by 2-3 percentage points, translating to tens of thousands of votes lost in a single state.[/quote]
Recent evidence has proven voter IDs do not inhibit voter turnout. If the elderly need help voting then help should be arranged by means other than the elimination of securities against voter fraud.
To which I respond [quote]Interesting study. They found no "statistically significant drop" in turnout between 2008 & 2016.
They ALSO found voter ID laws had "no significant effect" on deterring voter fraud!!!
Let that sink in! The same study that found no effect on turnout also found no effect on voter fraud!! They found NOTHING AT ALL!!! If you want to believe that study, it says voter ID laws are USELESS!!![/quote]
Then @marke says [quote]You will just have to believe what you will. Even so, making elections vulnerable to fraud on the basis of turnout is stupid.[/quote]
I'm stating the conclusions of the study YOU cited. Now you want to cherry-pick and accept one conclusion but pretend the other conclusion is not valid.
What I believe is the study was to small, narrow, restricted, whatever to establish anything. I believe the study is useless.
Which leads me to return my attention to a non-useless study - the non-partisan GAO study mentioned here: https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/block-the-vote-voter-suppression-in-2020/
[quote]on the basis of turnout[/quote] Dude, you are BADLY misstating my position here. If the reduction in turnout were equal in all demographics, fine. The problem is the elderly and the working poor are much more strongly affected by restrictive voter ID laws. As I stated elsewhere:
I've got NO PROBLEM with the theory of voter ID, as long as it's free and easy. I DO have a problem with the practice of making it differentially harder for the elderly & working poor. [b]https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/challenge-obtaining-voter-identification[/b]
[sep][sep][sep] Voter ID laws have been estimated by the U.S. Government Accountability Office to reduce voter turnout by 2-3 percentage points, translating to tens of thousands of votes lost in a single state. [sep][sep][sep] https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/block-the-vote-voter-suppression-in-2020/
@marke The right to vote is absolute. You can't remove the right to vote from some people and pretend it's fraud prevention.
We also have a right to have our taxes protected from tax fraud by crooks, but you guys do everything you can to hobble the IRS when they go after tax cheats.
@ElwoodBlues [quote]The right to vote is absolute. You can't remove the right to vote from some people and pretend it's fraud prevention.
We also have a right to have our taxes protected from tax fraud by crooks, but you guys do everything you can to hobble the IRS when they go after tax cheats.[/quote]
Americans have the right to obey election laws created by their democratic representatives. Crooks who do not like the way the laws inhibit certain practices do not have the right to force communities to abandon good laws in favor of crooked schemes.
@LordShadowfire Nope, not afraid. I just want to know exactly why people have a problem with IDs. Dems because Rep want or Rep because Dems don't. Do people truly believe that its hard for minorities ? Or believe that its not and just an excuse ? I truly want to hear reasons why or why not. I don't care if people think the election was stolen or not. Trump supporters think that was Biden supporters don't think it was
@missyann In the abstract, there is no issue with voter IDs, as long as everyone is issued one when they turn voter age, and they are easy to replace if lost. In practice, however, the voter ID issue is used to disenfranchise certain voters who are likely to vote for Democrats. In close elections, this can absolutely be the difference between winning and losing. I do have a problem with how voter IDs are issued and who can easily obtain them.
@missyann I don't like the idea because they can be abused. The state of Texas has defectively insured that rural voters will have to go miles out of their way, some of them hundreds, just to get an ID card in order to vote. Do you think they'll do it? Because I don't.
Ask the Republican politician who was asked to show ID. The guy claimed it was against his religion to have ID cards with a photograph (except his attention whoring "I'm special because I have this elected official ID", of course) and had the poll worker fired for daring to ask him to follow the rules that he championed.
@windinhishair [quote] So you want every ballot tied to a particular individual, so you can tell how people voted? [/quote]
We want every legitimate vote counted and no fake ballot counted. To do that there must be some means whereby fake ballots cannot find their way into legitimate counts.
@marke Taking away a secret ballot won't work. Give everyone an ID and a voter registration to stop the voter suppression. Confirm their ID when they vote. Done.
@windinhishair [quote]So you want every ballot tied to a particular individual, so you can tell how people voted?[/quote]
Something tells me that the MAGAts would instantly regret this the moment it was implemented. So, on the one hand I agree we shouldn't do that, but, on the other hand, I'm screaming "DO IT, LOSERS"
@sunsporter1649 SNAP cards are delivered by mail, IDIOT. And if Florida shifts to making voter ID available in post offices for free, I'd find that acceptable. But making voter ID free and easy would destroy the whole GQP purpose, wouldn't it???
@sunsporter1649 Usually, state social workers go to them.
Hey, THERE'S an idea - social workers could ALSO help their clients obtain voter ID. Post offices, mobile ID facilities, social workers - we could use ALL these methods to make voter ID easier to get.
You trumpsters would HATE that, wouldn't you, LOL!!!
@windinhishair [quote]And guess what? The miracle covid cure, known as the vaccine, works beautifully! It saves lives, many hundreds of thousands of them in the US alone! The data proves it[/quote]
I'm not buying the vaccine sales pitch because of what I know from facts the left seems intent on refusing to see.
@marke Actually, no, you are free to get your information from whatever source of disinformation you choose. However, do not expect for it to be accepted by others who choose to use facts and data instead of your misinformation, and do not expect not to be challenged for your ongoing bogus claims.
@windinhishair [quote]Actually, no, you are free to get your information from whatever source of disinformation you choose. However, do not expect for it to be accepted by others who choose to use facts and data instead of your misinformation, and do not expect not to be challenged for your ongoing bogus claims. [/quote]
I read reposts you read and I read reports you refuse to read and I make my own informed decisions and draw my own intelligent conclusions.
@marke Unfortunately, you don't make informed decisions, and do not draw intelligent conclusions. Your own posts prove that conclusively. You've got more than a few screws loose.
@missyann No. The problem really ISN'T "already there." The problem is self-created and fed to people who need enemies to blame. Nothing more to say than that. Now, if you'd like to present EVIDENCE of wide scale fraud then I'd gladly read it. But you can't because it doesn't exist. Sorry. I choose truth.
Not one thing and the only reason the left is so adamant that they don’t have to show ID is simple.. they want to cheat! Yes. And I don’t care what excuse they give….
There is no guarantee that a Democracy will survive forever. Perhaps we are living in the 'death rattle' of it now. I don't see any quick, overnight, solutions to all the problems that we are having now.
@4meAndyou No, I forgot to say that you will have a representative for each party at voting Precincts.. We will need to start having representatives at everything from registering to voting. ANYTHING that has to do with the election process. Its our new nation now.
its kinda crazy you dont have mandatory ID-cards in the usa... like every other civilized country manages to have an offical id and not stupid things like a library card or a drivers license
@marke [quote]American voting laws, such as purging voter rolls and preventing illegals from voting, are routinely ignored by democrats and leftists.[/quote] And what is THAT??
An opinion piece lacking factual evidentiary support, [b]LOL!!![/b]
@Oster1[quote] Lawyers & judges understand that "proof of innocence" is an absurd demand that would only be made in a totalitarian system. And yet that is what you demand, LOL!!![/quote]
An opinion piece lacking factual evidentiary support is offered as a refutation of an article with an opposing view that 'refutation' is no refutation at all.
What's wrong with it is how much people would charge. On top of that, there's the fact that you would completely eliminate voting by mail, which would prevent immunocompromised folks like me from voting. But hey, if that's your goal...
@marke By "nobody", you mean it could easily be done by a thuggish criminal type who wants to bash in the heads of everybody who voted for candidate X, or a member of his Cult.
@windinhishair I agree. I don't see this security system being idiot proof. People thought shredding documents was idiot proof, and I was among them, until I met a proven idiot in the county jail. Dude was a tweeker, and he told me one of his favorite activities when he was high was piecing together shredded documents. He said it was like the world's most complex jigsaw puzzle.
@LeopoldBloom [quote]Look at it logically. Let's say someone wants to recruit illegal immigrants to vote. Keep in mind, if one of them is caught, it's jail and deportation. So they would have to be bribed. Even with that, many of them would refuse.[/quote]
I don't agree that your opinion matches actual facts, no matter how logical it seems to you. In 2019 Texas officials found 95,000 illegals registered to vote in Texas. If we resort to logic, it seems logical that someone was interested in illegal voting. The problem remains an intent to commit fraud whether it was illegals themselves intending to vote or crooks who were setting illegals up to vote illegally.
[b]Texas finds 95,000 noncitizens on voter rolls The Washington Times - Wednesday, January 30, 2019
Voter integrity hawks are hailing an investigation by the Texas secretary of state that uncovered 95,000 noncitizen residents who illegally registered to vote.
It was one of the largest discoveries of non-eligible voters by any one state. Conservative groups say Secretary of State David Whitley’s inquiry produced real numbers to support their years of lawsuits and research. They say noncitizen voter fraud is significant, as opposed to the left’s contention that it is rare. “Demonstrating, much less discussing, noncitizen voting activity is the worst form of heresy one can commit for left-wing groups,” Logan Churchwell, director of communications and research at the Public Interest Legal Foundation, told The Washington Times.
In Texas, there will be a legal fight. The League of United Latin American Citizens filed a lawsuit on Tuesday challenging the upcoming voter purge.
“It’s clear that the right-wing elements in Texas government are trying to rig the system to keep power and disenfranchise 95,000 American citizens,” said Domingo Garcia, national president of the League of United Latin American Citizens. “There is no voter fraud in Texas. It’s a lie repeated time and again to suppress minority voters, and we’re going to fight hard against it.”
How did Mr. Whitley obtain the numbers? He compared two main databases — Department of Public Safety driver license records, which include immigration status, and voter rolls. He found about 95,000 noncitizens registered among 16 million voters on Texas rosters, of whom 58,000 actually voted since 1996.
In issuing driver licenses, the Department of Public Safety verifies an applicant is a legal U.S. resident by checking with the Department of Homeland Security. But proof of citizenship isn’t needed to register to vote.[/b]
@marke The Washington Times is an ultra-right wing rag owned by the Unification Church (the Moonies). I would be very careful about citing anything from there that wasn't backed up by a legitimate news source. From Wikipedia:
"The Washington Times was founded on May 17, 1982, by Unification movement leader Sun Myung Moon and owned until 2010 by News World Communications, an international media conglomerate founded by Moon. It is currently owned by Operations Holdings, which is a part of the Unification movement."
Even the source you cite says that there is some dispute over whether the 95,000 purged voters were in fact U.S. citizens. Purging the voter rolls of potential Democratic voters is a typical Republican tactic. In 2018, Georgia Secretary of State Brian Kemp purged thousands of Black voters while overseeing his own campaign for Governor, a clear conflict of interest.
@LeopoldBloom [quote]The Washington Times is an ultra-right wing rag owned by the Unification Church (the Moonies). I would be very careful about citing anything from there that wasn't backed up by a legitimate news source. From Wikipedia:[/quote]
If democrats and leftist socialists cannot shut down media sources that disagree with leftist propaganda they slander those outlets in order to keep their deluded anti-American followers in tow.
@LordShadowfire Paying to get a driver's license or an ID is not something we should do away with because of greedy leftists who are tight with their pennies.
@marke Greedy? Really? You just can't imagine being in the shoes of somebody who can't afford $40 for a voter ID card, can you? You're just too rich for that to resonate.
@LordShadowfire [quote]Greedy? Really? You just can't imagine being in the shoes of somebody who can't afford $40 for a voter ID card, can you? You're just too rich for that to resonate. [/quote]
What you are saying is that poor people who cannot afford $40 for an ID can afford to pay hundreds of dollars a month more for necessities because highway robbers and crooks easily cheated themselves into office by fraud.
@MethDozer How important is voting to you ? If it is then if you lose it replace it. Expiration doesn't matter. As long as the picture matches your face
@missyann I feel like you're missing the point. I mean, how easy are they going to make it to obtain this voter ID? As @ElwoodBlues recently pointed out, Texas passed a law requiring photo ID to vote, and then closed down a number of rural DMVs, thus forcing people in those counties to bus it to the nearest urban area to get a driver's license in order to vote. Guess what most of them probably did instead?
Nope. This was a flat out lie by Trump!
[quote]In all, there were 126 counties within 10 votes of their original vote tally, according to the audit data. Of those counties, 54 counties matched their initial results exactly. No county had an error rate higher than 0.73% compared to their original results.[/quote]
