Voter Fraud

@missyann [quote]The fact that they didn't say " fine, lets recount lets do anything we need to to shut you guys up.[/quote]
There were recounts. There were recounts of the recounts. Deniers still didn't shut up. And you think this is our fault for not indulging them enough?

[quote]Democrats have voted against certifying elections in recent elections.[/quote]
A small handful, that even when you combined the numbers from all elections, does not come close to the 147 Republicans that did so this time. Further, none of them tried to whip their constituents into a violent frenzy and overturn the certification process by force, nor did they try to justify such an attempt after the fact.

[quote]There no way to know for sure, but I personally don't think jan 6 would have happened the way it did if our senators would have been able to use this constitutional right.[/quote]
What the hell are you even talking about? [i]The rioters interrupted the certification process.[/i] It was not a backlash to some perceived inhibition of Congressional powers, it was a preemptive attempt to forcibly bypass those powers entirely.

[quote]Democrats have spent 6 yrs soon to be 7 doing nothing but trashing President Trump. They impeached him twice, trying to ensure that he never be allowed to serve again.. Where has that gotten them ? More passionate supporters, even a few moderate democrats because their party is nothing but hate now.[/quote]
You keep trying to pretend you're some compromising centrist, and then you say shit like this, that even major members of the GOP don't believe because it's absolute Trumpist fantasy.

[quote]My original question IS simply what is the problem with asking all LEGAL citizens have a picture ID to vote ?[/quote]
The problem is not all citizens will get one. And you damn well know it.

[quote]Free IDs with a mobil unit going anywhere to ensure that it is made available?[/quote]
Because this simply will not happen. It will be stalled every step of the way and any part of it that does get implemented will be attacked and sabotaged at every turn. [i]Your own party does not want people actually having IDs[/i]. This has been shown to you been shown to you with both evidence and the statements of various right-wing posters here. Stop pretending this is a reasonable compromise when it's being actively rejected by the same people who claim that IDs are necessary.

@missyann Well said. I'd support free photo IDs to anyone who didn't have one. Pretty sure they wouldn't be giving out very many. Hard to find an adult anywhere without a photo ID.

@OggggO ID issue is real simple. If your voting rights are important to you, you'll get an ID. Just like moving, you will make sure that you are registered in your new district and state. You don't have an ID you WON'T be allowed to vote.

@missyann An ID card in Oregon costs 40 bucks. That's a pretty steep poll tax.

@missyann Your final suggestion I can totally get behind:
[quote] Free IDs with a mobil unit going anywhere to ensure that it is made available?[/quote]
Problem is, voter IDs as they exist today are much more difficult for the working poor to obtain. And republicans continue to ignore that fact.

[quote] Those who oppose Ids for voting refuse to address the issue. [/quote] I'd say you have that backwards.

I've got NO PROBLEM with the theory of voter ID, as long as it's free and easy. I DO have a problem with the practice of making it differentially harder for the elderly & working poor. https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/challenge-obtaining-voter-identification

But voter IDs as they exist [u]REDUCE LEGAL VOTING BY THE WORKING POOR.[/u]
[quote]Voter ID laws have been estimated by the U.S. Government Accountability Office to reduce voter turnout by 2-3 percentage points, translating to tens of thousands of votes lost in a single state.[/quote]
[b]https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/block-the-vote-voter-suppression-in-2020/ [/b]

[quote]Democrats have voted against certifying elections in recent elections.[/quote] Really? The facts say otherwise:

Ariz. hand count https://azsos.gov/election/2020-general-election-hand-count-results
Georgia general election recount https://results.enr.clarityelections.com/GA/107231/web.264614/#/summary
Georgia signature audit https://www.ajc.com/politics/no-fraud-georgia-audit-confirms-authenticity-of-absentee-ballots/QF2PTOGHLNDLNDJEWBU56WEQHM/
Georgia Independent machine audit https://www.wrcbtv.com/story/42925055/no-sign-of-foul-play-found-in-audit-of-georgias-voting-machines
Mich: https://www.michigan.gov/som/0,4669,7-192-47796-553386--,00.html
Georgia: https://www.ajc.com/politics/no-fraud-georgia-audit-confirms-authenticity-of-absentee-ballots/QF2PTOGHLNDLNDJEWBU56WEQHM/
Arizona https://apnews.com/article/technology-biden-cabinet-arizona-phoenix-elections-b59f85b6e917e91a40dc8e99bcab480a
Penn https://www.inquirer.com/news/pennsylvania/spl/pa-election-results-risk-limiting-audit-results-limitations-20210310.html

@LordShadowfire [quote]An ID card in Oregon costs 40 bucks. That's a pretty steep poll tax.[/quote]

Gas prices are rising faster in Oregon than anywhere else in the country. By saving $40 on a voter ID poor Oregonians are now paying hundreds of dollars a month for basic necessities thanks to the corrupt and inept policies of the crooks who stole the election.

@ElwoodBlues Democrats refuse to purge their voter registries according to federal election laws. Why? Because bloated voter registries can easily be exploited into voting fraud ballot stuffing.

@marke And what about when legal eligible voters are purged because they happen to have names similar to someone who happened to move away? Sorry, "Accidental" removal of the right to vote is NOT acceptable!!

[quote]He warned Scott about repeating the ordeal in a letter.
"In the 2000 Florida election, at least 1,100 eligible voters were wrongly dropped from voting rolls in an attempt to purge a list of felons," Nelson wrote. "Many of those who were dropped showed up to vote and were told they could not. And in a presidential election decided by 537 votes, that erroneous purge may have been a factor."
. . .
Nelson's figure comes from a 2001 Palm Beach Post investigation, the crux of which asserts at least 1,100 eligible voters were wrongly purged before the 2000 election — "the collateral damage from an aggressive and ill-conceived state plan to prevent felons from voting."

The Post's count included at least 108 citizens who were cleared after the election and 996 people who committed felonies in other states (they were supposed to retain their civil rights even in Florida). [/quote]
[b]https://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/stateroundup/florida-voters-mistakenly-purged-in-2000/1235456/[/b]

@marke Well, that's an interesting non sequitur. it's layered, with multiple parts, none of which have anything to do with each other.

I really do wish users like @marke would take the time to create a profile picture. It's no fun trying to photoshop a red herring into the default SW logo.

@LordShadowfire [quote]I really do wish users like @marke would take the time to create a profile picture. It's no fun trying to photoshop a red herring into the default SW logo.
[/quote]

What kind of profile picture would you like and what is the problem with the default SW logo?

@marke It's a joke. What I do with folks like you who commit the red herring fallacy is I Photoshop a literal red herring into either your profile picture or something that looks similar enough. You see, a red herring is any statement intended to distract from the topic at hand.

@marke What Oregon residents save not having to pay sales tax more than covers the cost of a photo ID.
Besides...40? LOL. Affordability is a moot point. Every functioning adult in society has to have a photo ID. You can't get by without one.

@ElwoodBlues Accidental removal or not Los Angeles county had to remove more than a million names from its bloated rolls after a lawsuit was filed against the county by Judicial Watch. How does a county allow its registry to accumulate more than a million names of ineligible voters and why did the county send blank ballots to every name on the registry considering the massive number of ineligible ballots the county unleashed on the public?

@ElwoodBlues[quote] And what about when legal eligible voters are purged because they happen to have names similar to someone who happened to move away? Sorry, "Accidental" removal of the right to vote is NOT acceptable!![/quote]

Democrats stupidly claim their reason for disobeying federal election laws is that if they purged their rolls of millions of names of ineligible voters they might accidentally purge the name of one or two eligible voters. That might make sense to people with low intelligence, but not to others.

@marke [quote]t Los Angeles county had to remove more than a million names from its bloated rolls[/quote] And how many of those names were involved in illegal voting?? ZERO, right???

@ElwoodBlues Why were they purged ?

@missyann Ask California. Meanwhile, have investigators turned up a SINGLE ONE of the alleged ballots printed by foreign countries?
Nope. This was a flat out lie by Trump!

If the machines were altering the count like Trump claimed, how come the hand count matched the machine count so closely???
[quote]In all, there were 126 counties within 10 votes of their original vote tally, according to the audit data. Of those counties, 54 counties matched their initial results exactly. No county had an error rate higher than 0.73% compared to their original results.[/quote]
https://www.ajc.com/politics/breaking-georgia-manual-recount-confirms-biden-victory/B7LNNHYZOVGKZBUVAT7NZT3VZE/

Cons still believe these lies despite ZERO evidence![b]SAD!![/b]

@ElwoodBlues [quote]And how many of those names were involved in illegal voting?? ZERO, right???
[/quote]

That may be what you think but nobody has proved that to be true. Democrats either refuse to believe voter fraud is real or they refuse to admit voter fraud is real. How do they know that none of the more than 1 million ineligible voters on LA voter rolls did not vote illegally? They don't, but they still naively claim that it did not happen. Voter fraud deniers said the same thing about illegals voting in Texas, even though the deniers were wrong.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jan/30/pennsylvania-11000-non-citizens-registered-vote/


[b]Some of those Trump opponents don’t believe the latest numbers, particularly in Texas, where Hispanic activists sued to stop a potential purge of the noncitizen names that the state identified.
________________________________________
________________________________________
“It’s clear that the right-wing elements in Texas government are trying to rig the system to keep power and disenfranchise 95,000 American citizens,” said Domingo Garcia, national president of the League of United Latin American Citizens. “There is no voter fraud in Texas. It’s a lie repeated time and again to suppress minority voters, and we’re going to fight hard against it.”
Texas Secretary of State David Whitley used state driver’s license records, which include immigration status, and compared those with voter rolls. He found that about 95,000 people whom the state says weren’t citizens were among the 16 million registered voters.
Of those, about 58,000 had voted at some point since 1996.
[/b]