Voter Fraud

What is " wrong " with asking everyone to provide a picture ID to vote ? We are a smart nation I'm certain that we can come up with a mobil ID machine. There are codes that can be used to identify what kind of ID it is. Only a picture, or driving, an immigrant not yet a citizen but in this country legal, public assistance only ect...

In order to be done without accusing one party of cheating, sadly theres going to have to be a representative from both parties be present when the picture are taken and signed off on. Thats just the way it is now, no use in complaining. I know that there are enough people on both sides who want to volunteer to help with elections that are willing to represent their party. To oppose some type of a solution only makes it look like you want non citizens to vote.

I know that there are poor people without assistance or home bound where the mobil ID can go to their homes. There are county buses who take people to Drs appointments even disabled people. There can be county buses that can take them for other assistance.. Has anyone without an ID ever been to a Drs appointment, grocery store, bought alcohol, cigarettes or gotten a controlled prescription ? If yes, then it means that getting an ID is possible. Yes it will cost states and counties more money but I personally have NO PROBLEM having my tax money going for something like this. ANYTHING to shut the f××× fighting the hell up.

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ElwoodBlues · M

@marke cites [b]https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/new-study-confirms-voter-id-laws-dont-hurt-election-turnout[/b]

To which I respond
[quote]Interesting study. They found no "statistically significant drop" in turnout between 2008 & 2016.

They ALSO found voter ID laws had "no significant effect" on deterring voter fraud!!!

Let that sink in! The same study that found no effect on turnout also found no effect on voter fraud!! They found NOTHING AT ALL!!! If you want to believe that study, it says voter ID laws are USELESS!!![/quote]

Then @marke says
[quote]You will just have to believe what you will. Even so, making elections vulnerable to fraud on the basis of turnout is stupid.[/quote]

I'm stating the conclusions of the study YOU cited. Now you want to cherry-pick and accept one conclusion but pretend the other conclusion is not valid.

What I believe is the study was to small, narrow, restricted, whatever to establish anything. I believe the study is useless.

Which leads me to return my attention to a non-useless study - the non-partisan GAO study mentioned here:
https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/block-the-vote-voter-suppression-in-2020/

[quote]on the basis of turnout[/quote]
Dude, you are BADLY misstating my position here. If the reduction in turnout were equal in all demographics, fine. The problem is the elderly and the working poor are much more strongly affected by restrictive voter ID laws. As I stated elsewhere:

I've got NO PROBLEM with the theory of voter ID, as long as it's free and easy. I DO have a problem with the practice of making it differentially harder for the elderly & working poor.
[b]https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/challenge-obtaining-voter-identification[/b]

[sep][sep][sep]
Voter ID laws have been estimated by the U.S. Government Accountability Office to reduce voter turnout by 2-3 percentage points, translating to tens of thousands of votes lost in a single state.
[sep][sep][sep]
https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/block-the-vote-voter-suppression-in-2020/

marke · 70-79, M

@ElwoodBlues[quote] Dude, you are BADLY misstating my position here. If the reduction in turnout were equal in all demographics, fine. The problem is the elderly and the working poor are much more strongly affected by restrictive voter ID laws. As I stated elsewhere:

I've got NO PROBLEM with the theory of voter ID, as long as it's free and easy. I DO have a problem with the practice of making it differentially harder for the elderly & working poor.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/challenge-obtaining-voter-identification

Voter ID laws have been estimated by the U.S. Government Accountability Office to reduce voter turnout by 2-3 percentage points, translating to tens of thousands of votes lost in a single state.
https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/block-the-vote-voter-suppression-in-2020/[/quote]

Sacrificing voting integrity and security for the sake of making it easier for some people to vote does not make sense. Why allow crooks to totally destroy the validity of the election results so that a few old people might find it easier to vote, even if old people would find it harder to vote?

ElwoodBlues · M

@marke [quote]Sacrificing voting integrity[/quote]
That is a FLAT OUT LIE!!!
STOP PUTTING FALSE WORDS IN MY MOUTH!!!

I'm NOT sacrificing ANYTHING. I'm just saying costs of voting security should be treated like national security, city security, etc. i.e. paid by the taxpayers.

I've got NO PROBLEM with the theory of voter ID, as long as it's free and easy. I DO have a problem with the practice of making it differentially harder for the elderly & working poor.

marke · 70-79, M

@ElwoodBlues[quote] I've got NO PROBLEM with the theory of voter ID, as long as it's free and easy. I DO have a problem with the practice of making it differentially harder for the elderly & working poor.
[/quote]

Harder or not, voting security should be a top priority, and ease of voting should not detract from voting security.

ElwoodBlues · M

@marke Again, you have that BACKWARDS!!!

American citizens 18 and up have a RIGHT TO VOTE.
Full stop. It's in the Constitution.

Anything that interferes with a citizen's right to vote is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. That's why SCOTUS got rid of the poll tax and other limitations on voting rights.

[quote]Harder or not[/quote]
DUUUDE!!! If you make it too hard, it's not a RIGHT anymore, IS IT???

It is quite possible to issue free voter IDs to all legal voters without making them jump thru hoops. All that jumping thru hoops that you cons try to impose amounts to an illegal poll tax.

I've got NO PROBLEM with the theory of voter ID, as long as it's free and easy. I DO have a problem with the practice of making it differentially harder for the elderly & working poor. https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/challenge-obtaining-voter-identification

"Voter ID laws have been estimated by the U.S. Government Accountability Office to reduce voter turnout by 2-3 percentage points, translating to tens of thousands of votes lost in a single state." https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/block-the-vote-voter-suppression-in-2020/

marke · 70-79, M

@ElwoodBlues [quote]"Voter ID laws have been estimated by the U.S. Government Accountability Office to reduce voter turnout by 2-3 percentage points, translating to tens of thousands of votes lost in a single state." https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/block-the-vote-voter-suppression-in-2020/
[/quote]

What good is voter turnout if eliminating protections against voter fraud is sacrificed in order to increase turnout?

OggggO · 36-40, M

@ElwoodBlues [quote]American citizens 18 and up have a RIGHT TO VOTE.
Full stop. It's in the Constitution.[/quote]

I wish. What the Constitution actually has are several amendments that say "the right to vote shall not be denied because XYZ reason". Said right is only implicitly defined by what can't be used to take it away, there is no formal, explicit statement of who has it and who doesn't.

ElwoodBlues · M

@marke [quote]What good is voter turnout if eliminating protections against voter fraud is sacrificed in order to increase turnout?[/quote]
Did you not read what I wrote? It's right at the top of this thread!!

Here, lemme post it again:

I've got NO PROBLEM with the theory of voter ID, as long as it's free and easy. I DO have a problem with the practice of making it differentially harder for the elderly & working poor. https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/challenge-obtaining-voter-identification

"Voter ID laws have been estimated by the U.S. Government Accountability Office to reduce voter turnout by 2-3 percentage points, translating to tens of thousands of votes lost in a single state." https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/block-the-vote-voter-suppression-in-2020/

Did I say I was against voter ID? No I did not. Maybe I should put it in a bigger font!!

[big]I've got NO PROBLEM with the theory of voter ID, as long as it's free and easy. I DO have a problem with the practice of making it differentially harder for the elderly & working poor. [/big]

marke · 70-79, M

@ElwoodBlues[quote] American citizens 18 and up have a RIGHT TO VOTE.
Full stop. It's in the Constitution.
[/quote]

All Americans have a right to have their vote protected from voter fraud by crooks.

ElwoodBlues · M

@marke The right to vote is absolute. You can't remove the right to vote from some people and pretend it's fraud prevention.

We also have a right to have our taxes protected from tax fraud by crooks, but you guys do everything you can to hobble the IRS when they go after tax cheats.

marke · 70-79, M

@ElwoodBlues [quote]The right to vote is absolute. You can't remove the right to vote from some people and pretend it's fraud prevention.

We also have a right to have our taxes protected from tax fraud by crooks, but you guys do everything you can to hobble the IRS when they go after tax cheats.[/quote]

Americans have the right to obey election laws created by their democratic representatives. Crooks who do not like the way the laws inhibit certain practices do not have the right to force communities to abandon good laws in favor of crooked schemes.

ElwoodBlues · M

@marke Translation: you have no evidence, so you are lobbing insults instead. [b]SAD!!![/b]