It depends. The person sentenced was in the Capitol and breached one of the chambers, but was not violent. Other people will receive longer sentences for their crimes against the nation at Trump's behest. The politicians that assisted them in their attempted coup should face the harshest penalties.
@SubstantialKick People ignore the fact that one of the four killed at Kent State by the National Guard was an ROTC member who could have ended up in their ranks. It was an indiscriminate slaughter, as would have happened if Trump gave the order for the National Guard to stop the peaceful protests for George Floyd.
SW-User
It really depends. Those who attended the protest that day fall into 1 of 3 categories, in my opinion.
1. Those who genuinely just wanted to protest peacefully and did so. These people probably made the majority
2. Those who had no intention of storming the Capitol, but got swept up in the moment and did so anyway. Some of these people were more inclined to become violent, whilst others were probably bemused and went along with whatever the crowd was doing
3. Those who had planned days or weeks prior to storm the Capitol, some with the express purpose of taking hostages (i.e. Pence or Pelosi) in some vein attempt to change the election outcome. A good example were the people dressed in militia gear with handcuffs, baseball bats, riot gear, mace etc. It was probably this category of people who incited a lot of the violence that led to the building being stormed.
If all a person did was walk with the crowd into the Capitol building, hang about and then leave when police regained control - probably not worth much time. However, if there's video evidence of a person attacking police, stealing riot gear, breaking federal property etc. yeah, throw the book at them.
And the Proud Boys who dressed as militia, were communicating via radio and assigning tasks to break into the building and take hostages - those guys need the full extent of the law.
@LeopoldBloom [quote] Trump Administration did have advance notice[/quote] It was certainly Trump's intention for something like that to happen, no doubt. His actions speak volumes that day. For instance, when he was told that Pence had been evacuated and was only moments away from rioters, Trumps response wasn't to call for peace, but to instead Tweet that Pence was a coward. That's going to spur these psycho's on.
[quote] the officers who let them in.[/quote]
It depends on which officers. There were those who were told to let protestors through and abandon their post, as they were outnumbered/overpowered, and protestors had breached behind them anyway.
But then there are other scenarios which look totally suspect. police taking selfies with rioters? Seemingly opening doors and allowing them in? I'm guessing poor training, poor judgement, lack of experience. But you're right, it'll be interesting to hear their thought processes.
@SW-User It's a big building, and events were different depending on where you were. Some officers let the rioters in and made kissy-face with them, while others resisted as they were supposed to. One outcome of these hearings will have to be protocols for purging federal law enforcement of people who are not committed to protecting and preserving our federal government. They can get a job in private industry if they don't like Uncle Sam.
@LeopoldBloom These people are so smart... you know that right. They are so smart, Trumps's people are the smartest people. And loyal, they are so loyal and smart. It's so smart to be loyal. So smart.
@Kwek00 It's smart to buy a $150 repurposed Umidgi phone rebranded as a $500 "Freedom Phone." I mean, it has Gab and Parler, but no Facebook and Twitter, so Big Tech can't cancel you if you use one. Smart!
@dakotaviper I see you’re dealing with douche bags from the CCP. They marginalize and justify everything their Commie brethren do. There is zero need to communicate with them. They are the reason why this site is sinking. I ignored them long ago and my experience here has vastly improved ever since.
I think it's a good indication of how these prosecutions will go. There'll be talk of lessons learned, overcrowded prisons, otherwise good citizens and so on all while some guy who was pulled over for a bad tail light and gets discovered with a bag of weed goes in for 7 years.
@Graylight Trump supporters should never be referred to as "good citizens", bunch of ignorant rednecks bent on destroying America is a bit more accurate description of them.
Context: - he wasn’t charged with treason - he pled guilty very early in the proceedings - prosecutors asked for 15-21 months - he rather elaborately apologized to the court, unambiguously regretful of the damage he caused to the country.
No, their actions don’t amount to treason. And when they go after the Capitol police officer who murdered an unarmed person then perhaps we can go on about what “ really” happened.
None of the above. That was nothing more than a microcosm of what the country is feeling. If you look at the history of Roman we are almost exactly doing what they did as a society before Rome fell. We are a socialist society for the 1%. We need to ban together to get money out of politics. Wait until inflation really kicks in and the eviction Moratoriums end.
*** there is a great grass roots bill out**** ****** Look it up****
[quote][i]If you look at the history of Roman we are almost exactly doing what they did as a society before Rome fell.[/i][/quote]
A lucid and important point you make here. We are doing what Rome did before its fall precisely. Sir John Glubb explained how some empires fell in his seminal magnum opus "The Age of Empires" whose short summary can be reviewed here:
[center][youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjPtNM_s09c] [/center] He distinctly defined 6 Ages (Pioneers, Conquest, Commerce, Affluence, Intellect, Decadence) that predictably characterized the lifespan of these notable countries : [center] [/center] The average age of these fallen empires was 250 years. We are now at 245 and clearly in the Age of Decadence.
After pleading guilty to a single misdemeanor charge of “parading, demonstrating, or picketing in a Capitol building”, Anna Morgan-Lloyd, a 49-year-old Donald Trump supporter from Indiana was sentenced to probation, no prison time.
Seems you've been fed a pile of bull pucky by the press - giving an impression far worse than what it actually was.
@beckyromero through the actions of all of you on the Left for the past 5 years, has shown the world who the true fascists are and they're not the GOP. Identity Politics, Critical Race Theory teachings, and Enabling certain Groups to silence the opposition are all Fascist Tactics.
@dakotaviper [quote]the past 5 years, has shown the world who the true fascists are and they're not the GOP. [/quote]
Oh yeah?
Keep on sucking up to Vladimir Putin and see what it will get you.
SW-User
I’m not a big fan of the concept of treason, and the fact is while I’m glad to see jail time for these fuckers, the police who let them in and the politicians who encouraged this also deserve to pay (and they probably won’t).
@soar2newhighs The actions of the Capitol Police and the active support of Republican Congressmen definitly need to be part of the investigation, so we know who in Congress helped Trump's Cult, and how.
The name of the Capitol protector who shot Ashli Babbitt is HERO.
The ones who committed the lesser crimes that day and weren't involved in any actual violence or criminal damage should be offered the option of a year behind bars for treason, or as an alternative having to listen through headphones for 24 hours at full volume to Trump's full on spoiled child whining routine.
Depends on the particular crime. If all they did was tresspass or maybe smash a window, fair enough. If they were one of the bastards threatening to hang the Vice President, hunting down AOC, stealing Pelosi's laptop, running around with wire tie handcuffs, rushing riot police, etc., they need to be in prison for longer.
That said, some of the insurrectionists have been put in conditions that essentially amount to solitary confinement, which is cruel and not conducive to recidivism.
@ididntknow You know why they call it the mainstream?? Because thats where the journalists are. If I wanted the opinions of conspiracy nuts, flat earthers, religious crazies and ill kept people who build Faraday cages in their mother basements, I would ask you.😷
@MarineBob Prolly not. What got me was that... He was unable to obtain a paid for attorney. His public defender meant he was unable to participate in the legal system. Just cop a deal an move on. 🤷♀️
@QuixoticSoul I think you best watch the videos of the fucking excuse for Capitol police who abandoned their positions.That rogue cop didn’t do his/ her job. He:she short an killed an unarmed person. Tell me I’m wrong,
@soar2newhighs Of course it was an insurrection, by an armed mostly white supremacist mob under Trump's direction to stop the process of certifying the electoral vote. I'm sorry you don't like the accurate characterization of his Cult and their clear intent.
@SW-User Just because someone votes for a particular candidate does not make them a representation of the other people that voted the same way, i.e., are you an anarchist, Marxist, long term welfare recipient?
As for proven, you can't prove anything about me. Don't impose your stereotypes on me. Your fascist intolerance is seeping through.
@SumKindaMunster We're going to find out why Trump waited several hours to send in the National Guard after the riot started. Not that you care. Trump egged the Nazi contingent on for months by claiming the election was fraudulent, with no evidence other than the fact that he lost.
If I tell your neighbor that someone is fucking his wife while he's at work, and after a few months of this, when he's gotten really worked up, I tell him that his wife is cheating on him with you, and he beats you up, do I have any responsibility for that? Or I'm innocent because I didn't touch you myself?
@LeopoldBloom [quote]We're going to find out why Trump waited several hours to send in the National Guard after the riot started[/quote]
Answer below, from another poster in another thread:
[quote](Military Times) Hundreds of National Guard troops were posted in the streets of Washington, D.C., on Wednesday afternoon, but there was little they could do to respond as pro-Trump rioters overran the Capitol. Investigations are imminent, to determine whether the Capitol Police were undermanned and unprepared for the threat posed by two days of rallies against the results of the 2020 election, but the answer as to why troops posted blocks away were unable to respond to the siege is as simple ― or as complicated ― as a morass of bureaucracy. Simply put, the National Guard only shows up to D.C. when they’ve been invited, and the Capitol Police did not extend that invitation until after the breach, according to a source with knowledge of the process, who was not authorized to speak about it on the record.
The several hundred troops posted around downtown D.C. on Wednesday were there at the request of Mayor Muriel Bowser, to support local police. “We had worked out that the support we were providing the [Metropolitan] Police Department would be on traffic control points,” the source said, including downtown subway stations and select blocks, where teams of two Guardsmen and several vehicles were keeping the streets clear of cars. Bowser put in a request for support Dec. 31, Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy told reporters on Thursday. The Defense Department was in contact with Capital Police ahead of Tuesday and Wednesday’s protests, Kenneth Rapuano, the assistant defense secretary for homeland defense, told reporters during a press call on Thursday. They asserted that they would not be requesting National Guard support, he said.
DCNG announced Monday it had mobilized 340 troops to support MPD, but that organization’s jurisdiction does not cover any federal land within the District, and so its officers ― and its Guard support ― could not have just rushed to the Capitol. Further, once they got there, Guard troops who had been acting in a traffic control capacity, not as law enforcement, would not have been able or authorized to forcibly push back rioters or help clear the building, a task that fell to the Capitol Police and the FBI tactical forces they requested to help out. So when chaos unfolded Wednesday afternoon and reports surfaced that there had been a request for additional Guard troops and the Defense Department had denied it, here’s what really happened. Because of D.C.’s finicky federal status, any entity ― whether its the mayor, or the Interior Department, which controls federal parks within the District ― has to put in a request for National Guard troops through the Army secretary, who gets it endorsed by the defense secretary. The Capitol’s request for Guard back-up went beyond what Bowser had already gotten approved, so it needed a new sign-off. “We quickly worked to move our resources forward in support of Metro PD and the Capitol Police,” McCarthy said Thursday. The process took about an hour, the source familiar told Military Times, from the time McCarthy received it around 2 p.m. on Wednesday. “We wanted to make sure, based off what we saw developing, that that was an acceptable use, all the way up to the SECDEF, which didn’t take long,” the source said, including about half an hour spent relaying the request to acting Defense Secretary Chris Miller.
It was 3:36 p.m. when White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany tweeted that President Donald Trump had directed the activation of more troops. Technically, Pentagon spokesman Jonathan Hoffman told reporters on Thursday, the president had given Miller the green light to call up National Guard days earlier. Alternative reports asserted that Miller had spoken with Vice President Mike Pence about the decision. But that would have been more of a courtesy to keep the White House informed, the source familiar told Military Times, not a request for permission. At 3:52 p.m., Hoffman tweeted that Miller had mobilized more D.C. Guard to respond, a characteristic sequence of announcements during an administration during which the Pentagon has been reluctant to speak before the White House, despite having the lead on decision-making. Once activated, the D.C. Guardsmen made their way to the armory, where they donned protective gear, loaded up vehicles and made their way to the Capitol. They were there before a mandatory curfew began at 6 p.m., and stayed into the night to perform crowd control on protestors who refused to pack it in. [/quote]
@SumKindaMunster So if it was Trump, Bowser, or some other person who wasted even a minute deploying them when the rioters breached the Capitol, they need to be held accountable. And that is one question these hearings will answer. I'm interested in whether the delay was due to incompetence, or deliberate. Of course, if you think the riot was just a tour group that got a little rowdy, then there was no need to send in the National Guard at all as the Capitol police were capable of handling it. But some of us were horrified at the assault on one of our most sacred institutions - our electoral process.
If it had been up to me, I would have machine-gunned those Nazi fuckers the moment they broke through the doors.
I think it should be a graduated scale. everybody shouldn't get the same punishment
the people on the outside that were just loudmouths and caused no damage - guilty of an illegal assembly and give a $500 fine
the people that broke in to locked areas are guilty of burglary (where I live) and those that had weapons during the commission of a felony (where I live) have enhanced penalties.
those that took possession of property not belonging to them have an additional theft charge added.
One person got the death penalty - administered while attempting to go through a broken window on a locked door and attempting to do who knows what to a small group of armed police officers.
Like I say, it should be graduated. anything from a suspened sentence, to a fine, to a couple of years in prison.
I understand some took possession of computer equipment - if there was anything classified on them - perhaps a charge with the Patriot Act...
What happened was free speech - until it went beyong speech and became mob actions. those that participated will have to deal with the consequences.
@Pretzel ‘One person got the death penalty - administered while attempting to go through a broken window on a locked door and attempting to do who knows what to a small group of armed police officers’ yes so what exactly was an unarmed lady going to do to a group of trained, armed police officers?
@pianoplayingsteve I have no doubt the officers acted out of fear - not sure if the offers that were struck and had a cattle prod used on them were a part of that group - but an unarmed group of people can still use leathal force.
I have no sympathy for the deceased, but I thank her for her previous uninformed service. at the time of her death she was acting in a dangerous manner and received the predictable consequences for failing to behave in a law abiding manner.
@LordShadowfire I don’t seem to remember saying that, I seem to remember stating that criminals of all sides should be arrested. If that means ‘it was a false flag’ in your head, you need to take your meds.
@SW-User yes and I know the oath that congresspeople take also. Tearing the state of the union speech is also a protest as with all females dressing alike for it
How many capitol police officers and protestors were harmed the speech was torn …or the wardrobe choices were made… technically, you served to protect all of that..@MarineBob
Nope. Quit being like Trump, calling everything treason. Their crimes did not fit the definition of treason. Sedition would be a better charge but even that is a stretch. In this case Mr. Hodgkins’ conviction was for obstructing an official proceeding. A step above trespassing. He pled guilty. He is now a felon and his life is ruined. Eight months is fair.
[quote]18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason U.S. Code
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.[/quote]
@jim44444 quit being like trump? All I’ve heard since January is ‘worse than isis’ ‘treason’ etc and I’ve seen people make despicable threats against the CHILDREN of those involved.
{@lilymaesixty1] the instigator yet again gets away scot free from his crime of inciting the riots and violence . yet again it is a case of the devil looking after his own .nothing to sticks to teflon don
@Notanymore The Supreme Court decides what the Constitution says, not you. The Second Amendment is poorly worded and references a militia for gun ownership, as you are well aware and conveniently left out of your discourse. The Court extended that right to individuals in 2008 in the Heller v. DC decision. I love how you've just accused Scalia of a political move [b]restricting[/b] gun rights when he was one of the driving forces behind the [b]extension[/b] of gun rights.
Do you know how courts work? Courts adjudicate. They don't make prosecutorial decisions. Prosecutors aren't the courts, and are the ones who decide whether to prosecute and on which grounds. The court had nothing to do with any decision to prosecute the right-wing nuts who were threatening peaceful protesters. That would have been the decision of local prosecutors.
Do you have an example of state or local political court decisions, since you have alleged several times that the courts are political and make these decisions all the time? Or not?
It isnt long. But on the other hand its good to see that even a minor player in that drama is getting jail time. I would hate to think any of those people got a slap on the wrist and sets a benchmark for the real heavy hitters in this thing. Maybe even those who stirred it up.😷
@pianoplayingsteve Morally, I agree with you. And both are wrong. But legally, our government does have the right to a higher standard of protection. Equally, they should be held to a higher standard of accountability that seems to be sadly lacking. Maybe this lesson from the people will teach them something. I wish I really believed that.😷
They are both wrong, yet with the BLM riots, the media presents it as positively as possible, and Kamala Harris, of all people, bails them out. Whist the same media acts like with the jan 6 event, the holy shrine of humanity was attacked and to this day go nuts about it whilst portraying the death and destruction from months of BLM as ‘mostly peaceful’ or just about ‘racial justice’ means. I’m sorry but the combined fact of how long the BLM riots went on for, how much death and destruction it caused, how much the media lied to give them a free pass I think that if the US had even a shred of justice then all those rioters would be in jail AND the media ideologues who pushed for it and the democrat senators who pushed for violence should all be put in jail. And ion top of that apparently this is fine because it’s the left:
In America there is constant talk about wanting to avoid division. There would be so much less division if people on the left were not given a free pass to divide people. The government should be held to a higher standard but no. You need to realise that these ideologues on the left don’t care about being consistent, or fair, or facts, it’s just power and forcing things with bureaucracy to them. Which is why they constantly accuse everyone else of belonging to some some sort of tyrannical patriarchy.
@Human1000 a country is also quite doomed if mobs are allowed to destroy countless businesses owned by innocent people and are portrayed positively in the media, absolutely disgusting. I hope it wasn’t your family business that was razed to the ground
I didn’t assume you aren’t against it, I’m just pointing out the obvious other fact. And I think many assume because there are a lot of people who will parrot whatever the left tells them to think, regardless of how self contradictory or stupid, to the point that it seems like many people are willing to flat out lie to protect their left wing politics which are becoming a religion.@Human1000
@spjennifer ‘flood the capital’ ‘climb over police barricades’, ‘take over’. I’ll make my point again, arrest both groups. And whilst we are at it, stop the ‘fact checkers’ playing word games to downplay an actual terror attack?
@pianoplayingsteve Not sure where you're going with Susan Rosenberg, her 60 year sentence was commuted by Bill Clinton 20 years ago so what does she have to do with the January 6th Insurrection?
@spjennifer let’s say it doesn’t, so let’s address recent events that no one was sentenced for, ‘flood the Capitol’ ‘climb over the police barrier’, ‘take over’. When are they get arrested?
@jackjjackson Battery against an officer may be a misdemeanor (punishable by up to one year in jail) or a felony (punishable by one year or more in prison). The more serious the battery, the more harshly the crime is punished.
For damage to the State Capitol, If the damage is more than $1k, persons convicted can spend up to 10 years in prison with higher fines.
SW-User
@jackjjackson how much time should a former SF sgt get for assaulting a police officers….is an excellent question. A man who at one point took an oath to uphold and defended the constitution…damn that’s a great question..
It's all a part of Obummer Part Two's quiet plan of retaliation on regular people for things they didn't do so the Left can have more voters in the next election. They didn't arrest them because they silently approve of their 'Purging' activities.
@ninalanyon For burning down a federal courthouse? If you burn down my house, it's arson. If you burn down a federal courthouse, it's something much bigger.
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