@Carazaa no, a lot of people don't learn, just because one reads the Bible, the Quran or the Torah doesn't mean they are learning something, nor does listening to your elders.
When you say, Socialism, are you referring to a Communist State? What sort of government are you talking about? What does a Socialist culture look like to you? Can you describe it?
@Pherick Here is a clue for the clueless. The survey you cited was farmers who had a permit book only. A lot of grain farmers had given up on the CWB and no longer had a permit book. I know I talked to three of my classmates and asked if they were given a ballot. They all said no. They didn't have a permit book. Two more of my friends had permit books and they got a ballot. So a majority of farmers who relied on the CWB wanted the wheat board to continue. Any one surprised at the results?
If it wasn't for "socialism" people wouldn't have retirement or be able to own their own businesses. Both of those are examples of socialism. Do people really want to go back to wage slavery as it was in Upton Sinclair's The Jungle? In the book he was trying to push for socialism but instead brought light to the conditions of the meat packing industry. In the industrial revolution there were no social systems to protect the people. That is what a country without socialism looks like. And I've never heard anyone want to return to that.
All modern nations have at least some socialism in place. Japan is socialist, Germany has the oldest social welfare system if I remember correctly. England is socialist. Canada, France, Sweden, Finland, etc...
Socialism is multi-facted and can be applied to many areas. But it's basic premise is that it is social ownership. Such as employee owned business or co-ops. And a social welfare system to help the needy.
Charity doesn't work as people and their money do not like to be parted. And I'm not saying that it should be. If you have worked for it then you should keep it. But a social welfare system needs to be in place to soften the edges of such strict capitalism.
People are still terrified of the Nazis and the USSR. Both had social systems in place as well. But just because those states failed it was not because of socialism. It was endless wars on the part of Nazi Germany and over-reach. And corruption, dissent, lack of freedom of the part of the USSR which fractured the state once Gorbachev tried to bring in more democratic ideals.
"It was endless wars on the part of Nazi Germany and over-reach. And corruption, dissent, lack of freedom..." I hope people keep this in mind every time the news media starts railing against XYZ dictator and how imperative it is for American taxpayers to foot the bill in the name of spreading democracy, but balk at the notion of their tax dollars being allocated for their very own welfare.@causernamebemyusername]
@PikachuTrainer What I am seeing is that the dfinition varies depending on where you get it. Even as far back as the 19th century it was used interchangeably with the word communism. But communism takes it's teachings from Marx. "...and meant that workers and their community should control the market for what they make."
What a community is is the sticking point as a government is a community and ownership can be thus controlled by the government. Or a community can be collective like a co-op: "...a business that is owned and operated by and for the benefit of its members."
But socialism if often interchanged anymore with social services. And social services is a part of socialism, communism, democracy, republicanism etc... And modern nation. As they all try to equalize disparities across a society.
And I see that as sticking in people's craw really bad on here as they are afraid of some type of communist take over of their wealth. They don't want to give to charity. They don't want to share with those that they see as less. They don't want their taxes to go to what they see as lazy people or people that should be euthanized. These are the traits of extreme capitalism. And socialism in the counter balance to those attitudes. It forces people that are greedy to help take care of society.
It's along this logic, Why should I have to pay taxes on roads I don't even use. If I'm not sick why should I pay for someone else doctors bills. I'm a pacifist so I shouldn't pay taxes that the government uses to fund the military. This is again extreme capitalism and is the ultimate outcome if it is allowed to run unchecked like it did in the industrial revolution.
Also the US has tried to be tax free under the Articles of Confederation which predated the US. It didn't work as there was no money to pay the soldiers and the army disbanded and the first country fell apart.
The extreme of socialism is the government takes so much money that the people are basically given an allowance while having most or all of their basic needs met. Which I believe one of the Baltic states actually does do the allowance thing. But since it is the opposite of capitalism there is no need for any one person to work harder than anyone else as all people receive the same benefits. Such a system can lead to jealousy and hate as some people may have to work harder (due to disability or such) that a lazy person does.
So a mix of the two systems is best so as to counterbalance each other. And if you are an American you know how important checks and balances are.
PikachuTrainer, because they want free things at the expense of others who earned it through hard work.
“Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy.” - Winston Churchill
Socialism is basically legalized envy of people who have money. The stealing of other people's hard-earned money by people who feel entitled to it. They're trying to make everyone equal alright - by bringing other people down to their level through stealing so that all are the same.
There's no free lunch, you have to work to make a living. Taking money from other's without their permission is called theft. Not working and expecting money to be given for free takes away people's incentive to work in the first place. Eventually they just stop work altogether because why bother to work if you can just sit on your behind and get free money?
Where's the line for that program so I can stand in it to get free shit the rest of my life? The downside is it's at the expense and burden of other people who actually earned it - but I won't care because the government is doing the stealing, not me - I'm busy getting mine!
Socialist Cow Program - The government stole your property. Tough.
Liberal Cow Program - The government made you feel guilty first then you handed over your property willingly.
Communist Cow Program - The government stole all of your property and now you're poor and have nothing. You'll be lucky to ever have a decent life again.
Conservative Cow Program - In a country where Liberty and Freedom are valued, people can prosper through hard work and actually defend themselves from their abusive government.
You're not supposed to be afraid of the government, the government is supposed to be afraid of you. Think about it.
No corruption since the Vikings in Norway. When Norway found oil they shared it with citizens, everyone has a summer home, a winter home, and a boat. People are happy. (they sometimes complain about citizens or immigrants but not much the government) In USA if the Government found oil it would have told the citizens how evil it is to tax and how evil big government is so they don't have to spend their own money or do anything, and then quietly take hand outs from oil lobbyists, gun lobbyist, Medical Associations, insurances, and banks, and still not have free healthcare, and colleges. There is plenty of money in this country. Its just not spent on the people. They don't pay enough even for basic k-12 th grade. And you want less government? No I want more money spent on healthcare, schools, infrastructure and peoples welfare, not less. @DudeistPriest
Why are the European socialist countries like the Scandinavian countries the happiest in the world? Because the government cares, not like other countries like communism, or Capitalism, or fascism governments. Look up the "happiest countries in the world" and the USA is in 24th place. Americans confuse socialism with Communism. Its like confusing capitalism with fascism. Its not the same.
I have to speak up against hate!I don't watch CBN, I don't listen to any preacher. I only read my Bible, and I love Jesus and all people, criminals, Muslims, gays, refugees, ALL people. And I will NOT stand for Hate! I have dedicated my life to volunteer and give away my money to missions. Jesus is coming any day and we have to feed the world with food and tell them about Jesus, not hate people. I am not political but when I hear Christian hate, and worship of hate, that is Satanic I have to speak up!!
Why are people in the U.S. so terrified of it when forms of it actually do work in other developed countries, and have, like healthcare in Canada, parts of Europe, Australia ? People don’t even know what socialism is, yet they’re frightened.
Finland is a "Nordic country" you are right but its like the others and and we consider it ours and Scandinavian. Its voted as number one I believe for happy people this year, or last. And it's just like the rest of Scandinavia, believe in helping everyone, social services for everyone. happy everyone. In America the most wealthy country there are homeless and that's just wrong. There is plenty of money for everyone, except some are greedy and don't care about others, they exploit in business, and they want less taxes, and less Government.
The best form of government would be one that adopted the best elements of various systems of governance.
Unfortunately people are so blinded by their own 'ideas' and 'brilliance' they feel they have to have a 'pure' system without looking at others to see what works in those.
The United States is not in any real danger of ever becoming a Socialist nation in the foreseeable future. However, forms of Socialism already exist in the United States, e.g. the military, the postal service. These institutions benefit the public at large and the rhetoric spoken by many of today's prominent Presidential candidates speaks to the effectiveness of such forms of Socialism moreso than advocating for absolute Socialism. Regulated capitalism and the gradual shift from an oligarchy to a democracy seem to be prominent populist themes this cycle and are likely to appeal to the electorate at large.
@AnonymouslyYours Exactly. There's a massive amount of difference between a capitalist society with socialist programs contained within, as a social safety net or social benefit and socialism. There are some folks who are too dumb to know there is a difference between that and straight socialism which always crashes.
@AnonymouslyYours While Republican voters seem loathe to pay taxes to provide support for those less fortunate, they actually pay more in the form of law enforcement and security costs to protect them from these same poor, once they become a social issue. Seems the poor have guns and wont go quietly into the night, the way they are supposed to. They steal deal drugs, and steal cars. All costs to the community, because they have no education or employment.
@Spoiledbrat to be honest, I don't know that much about Socialism myself, but what I do know makes me hope it never happens to my country (UK), and I'm a Conservative/Imperialist.
I believe when Sweden was a Christian Government for 1000 years it did better than now. I think Denmark and Norways Governments are still Christian. Yes they are great!@Entwistle
@SimplyTracie Nobody substantial, aside maybe from some edgy college tankies.
In the US, "socialism" is when someone dares to suggest that maybe there is something wrong with being the richest country in the world, yet having so many people sleeping on the streets, and millions without healthcare.
Also I should point out, that both Socialism and Communism are outlined by Karl Marx, both falling under the same manifesto, however Communism is far more complex that Socialism, and both always fail due to political leaders.
Small sample size? When you think about it, the same is really true for modern capitalism.
It drives me batshit when people say either one is evil and the other is good. Seems like we ought to be thinking about what system or mix of systems is best for a given place and time.
@blindbob Have you ever had to watch your elderly mother in law lie on a gurney in the hall way for almost a week with a broken hip while the hospital waits for a bed to open up so they can set the bone? I have.
There are a lot of money for research in the USA you are right, but many of the top scientists are coming here from western countries to teach at universities for a few years and then go back to their homes in Europe. The people who want to stay are mostly from poor countries because it is better than their own countries like Mexico, south America, Africa, and Asia.@hippyjoe1955
Yes history has proven that all the socialistic counties have no corruption . Look up the happiest countries In the world. For about 1000 years it worked.@4meAndyou
Yes history has proven that all the socialistic counties have no corruption . Look up the happiest countries In the world. For about 1000 years it worked.
This doesn't even approach the level of an informed statement. Sorry.
In Scandinavia there has been no corruption in Government for about a 1000 years. The mindset is to help people not power or money. They have been Christian countries with Christian governments for 1000 years since the Vikings, yep!
You got me! I know they stopped teaching REAL history in schools some time ago. History chronicles the miserable, horrific failures of socialism. Maybe some people are not aware and susceptible to the socialist Kool-Aid,
@SimplyTracie Your condescension notwithstanding, you may want to work on your reading and comprehension skills as well. I wrote about failures of socialism - not failures of socialism in America.
However, there are plenty of examples of failed socialist programs in America. Social programs in the United States are welfare subsidies. Federal and state welfare programs include cash assistance, healthcare and medical provisions, food assistance, housing subsidies, energy and utilities subsidies, education and childcare assistance, and subsidies and assistance for other basic services.
While there are some success stories, the vast majority of people caught in the web of these programs are destined to remain in need of them for ever. The systems are DESIGNED that way - to keep control over its victims. The programs are forever being 'reformed', refinanced, restructured - always at higher cost and more bureaucracy.
Before you go off on a leftist rant about how I want to starve children, etc. - all I'm looking for is radical change to these programs, to ensure that they are designed to help people get out of the program - not be entrapped by them.
@Budwick You’re an American, right? I figured you’d be concerned about Socialism in America and not abroad.
Okay, so my comprehension and reading skills par with my historical knowledge. Oh well...
Okay, now you’re talking about America, in what way has it failed (albeit many are successful as you stated) and what changes would you suggest making?
@SimplyTracie Simple, socialism has failed every where. What you figured my concerns might be aren't so hot either. Yes, I am an American, I'm an adult American. So, I care about more than just myself, or MY country.
And your comprehension failed you again. I said "there are some success stories" NOT "many are successful ".
AND, I explained how they failed in my previous post.
@RippinKlouds think you'll find that medical care is part of social welfare, the rest you mentioned are most certainly not exclusive parts of socialism.
Lately there has been some changes after the immigration. But in a while it will be OK as long as the countries love the immigrants, and don't discriminate. @Spoiledbrat
Because the early political theories of Marx, not yet attempted to put in physical practice had some common threads with liberal beliefs, but once it had became the worst horror ever visited on the human race.
The socialist economic plan of the communist system exempts itself from the accounting for morally appalling acts of sundry theft, murder, enslavement and thought crime to this very day. The biggest supporters and leadership of this terrible political ideology are already very wealthy and feel immune from the eventual slaughter.
The youth is ignorant about what will actually become of them if full communist socialism ever gets control of the government.
Because its an evolutionary trait that has bought success. Humans are the most selfish grasping creatures in the food chain and the only being that has learned to lie. So running with total self interest is natural. Of course, some people are trying to evolve beyond that.
People are individualistic in the USA, not so in other countries. In most western countries people don't want to be rich, they want an equal society. In the USA they value liberty to do whatever, even if it is not good for the masses. Its just a different value system.
USA is fabulous in many ways, its for the strong and self sufficient.
What needs to happen for people to be happier in USA in my opinion is
1. better infrastructure, better planned communities where people live where they shop, play, and work, so there is more a sense of community. 2. Better mass transit systems 3. great housing for the homeless, not just shelters 4. Walkable towns where cars are limited so its nice and quiet and people exercise outside more. 5. 5 week summer paid vacations for everyone and 2 weeks to observe Jesus Birthday ha ha! 6. One payor healthsystem for all that's free 7. One year off, 6 months for each parent, to bond with a newborn with full pay because the first year is the most important year for a child. 8.A loving police department that walks and get to know their precinct by talking to everyone to build trust and accountability, not fear and hatred. And a justice system that is kind, and rehabilitative instead of punitive (which doesn't work) 9. rehabilitation for workers instead of being fired 10. A flexible work schedule for working parents. And not force people to work more than 40 hrs. just because they are salaried. 11. Free public colleges. @PikachuTrainer
Leftists blow my mind! The way they think. The shit they say. I still have a hard time believing they actually exist. They are stark raving lunatics. How people can think the way they do is completely baffling to me.😵
Socialist Cow Program - The government stole your property. Tough.
