So far, nobody’s provided any proof of that. If they have links to stats (from legitimate sources, not conspiracy theory websites) I wish they’d provide them. Otherwise, basically they’re just spreading misinformation.
@AwakeningConfession221122 Yes, but according to many conspiracy theorists, [b]anything[/b] they believe but cannot produce proof of has been censored. So I take [b]that[/b] reality into account as well. 🙁
@bijouxbroussard that’s why we got to take everything with a grain of salt rather than choose wilful ignorance, because to be honest I believe nothing anymore and I trust no one. That’s how pathetic humanity has become and I’m no exception to the rule.
@SW-User [quote]They tell us to do our own research if you ask[/quote] I have. The risks of dying or long-term effects from any of the vaccines are miniscule compared to the risks of death or significant impact of long-term COVID. So... I really appreciate their advice.
Claimed by people who barely made it through high school science. Why trust the actual scientists and doctors? They find it easier to believe some horse dewormer pills is the answer.
Actually I have the evidence. It was a meeting of a small group of people in 2018: CHAIR: Ok, the best and simplest way to achieve world socialism (or insert your own wacko conspiracy idea here) is to start a fake pandemic. MEDIA PERSON: Great idea. Of course need to get the media on board. Virtually all of them. Without any of them disagreeing. Of course, we just threaten to sack them. That's all it takes. Most of them are socialists anyway. We control all the media - except of course Breitbart and Fox and a few others. SCIENCE PERSON: Yeah, same with 99% of the world's scientists. They don't care about truth. They just want money for research. They don't care if it's fake. Offer them cash for fake research on the pandemic and they won't say a word to anyone. We can fake all the statistics about causes of deaths - no-one will question it. MEDIA PERSON: Well - except those people on Facebook. There are a few really clever people with integrity on Facebook who might see through us. MEDICAL PERSON: Well, we've already cooked up a special mind control drug. Why don't we release virus and then we'll innoculate people with our secret recipe (11 herbs and spices, it's not simple) to control everyone. OTHER PERSON: How we gonna tell hundreds of thousands of journalists and scientists and everyone and keep them updated with all the changes and what to do next without sending a memo or an email or anything? CHAIR: Please stay on topic. GOVERNMENT PERSON: Good job! Well, all the world's governments will go along with this too. We control them. OTHER PERSON: Hey, if we already control all these people, why do we need a fake pandemic?
"Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 390 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September 27, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 8,164 reports of death (0.0021%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. "
These are ASSOCIATIVE and not necessarily causative. I cant find it now, but a article I read weeks ago narrowed the numbers down with likely other causes for all but about 2,000 as I recall. Most vaccines have similar reactions or interactions with comorbidities, etc .
These are low numbers with 390,000,000 as the divisor.
I got the J&J vaccine around the first of March. I haven't had any adverse reactions other my ED was cured. I know of three Anti-Vaxxers that got COVID-19 One just got out of the hospital this past Monday and will be on oxygen for the rest of his life. He's 39 years of age. Another was put on a Vent this morning and his prognosis isn't good. His kidneys have already failed and he has swelling in his brain. And the last one died this morning after being in the hospital for 2 months with COVID-19. Leaves behind a wife and 3 children with the youngest being just 2 weeks old. He never got to hold his infant son. He was 36.
I am not sure their brain cells are strong enough to handle things like evidence
SW-User
It's just laughable. There is no evidence whatsoever. The best that people come up with is things like VAERS reports which are unsubstantiated and can be submitted by anyone. That's like suggesting that girls have three boobs because my friend says he saw one once.
@ElwoodBlues Poor man, talking to Oster about things like this is just a tedious enterprise. He has a tough time seperating fact from fiction. And when facts go against his "opinions" he reduces the fact to an opinion too. If you talk long enough to Oster, you'll figure out that everything easily gets reduced to an opinion the moment his brain can't deal with factual data. And for some reason, we often find ourselves in this weird place where we need to agree to disagree because we are just all formulating opinions anyway, which in his brain is the more "mature" thing to do [i](aka, makes him feel good about himself)[/i]. Even though all opinions are equal, his own opinions are more equal then everyone elses' even when they are based in facts. There are a number of members that suffer from the same delusional mindset, people like SumKindaMunster & PianoPlayingSteve & HoraceGreenley. But there are more out there. They all preach their opinions, but are unable to go into a discussion that is fact based without reducing the facts too opinions and therefore placing them on a seemingly similair height as their own opinion. Except that that their own opinion is always better, no matter the factual data which is often blamed to be a product of conspiratorial and political processes instead of people measuring what is happening in reality.
@Kwek00 Thanks for the heads up! I've crossed paths with steve and been blocked by skm. I know I'm not going to change their opinions, and I don't mind them preaching their opinions on a lot of silly matters, but it bothers me when people post dangerous lies, such as false claims about diseases vs vaccines. So in the rare cases when I see one of those kinds of dangerous claims being posted as "fact," I am glad to have the admins' advice on how to report it properly. I like to be able to do my part in getting rid of dangerous lies that can harm others.
I love how my colleagues were claiming similar things with such confidence and stating them as facts. But when a regulation was passed where I live, restricting access based on vaccination status, they all got vaccinated literally the next day! I mean if they REALLY believed what they were saying, I bet they’d have second thoughts about getting the vaccine! I bet they’d rather keep on avoiding the vaccine by doing the PCR test more often, I mean what’s better, that or “risking their life”, right? But they, themselves, don’t even believe what they are saying !
@RodionRomanovitch they think it makes them look all “smart and well informed”; oh I am not putting a new vaccine into my body..! As opposed to all the medicines they have previously studied and tested before they took them to ensure they are good and appropriate.
@BitterSweetPotato Like you said , the moment their real freedoms are impinged upon they fall right into line. It's all bullshit. (Apart of course from the few idiots who actually do believe the nonsense. You know , the ones who are gonna end up dead from it.)
They're at the point of saying all the covid deaths are "vaccine injury" ignoring all the people who died BEFORE the vaccines were available and the vaccines LOWER THE DEATH RATE
@ElwoodBlues I really do not appreciate your acerbic tone.
I have no idea, what YOU are trying to prove. Just because you may not know, does not mean others don’t. I have many, just top of mind awareness. I could rattle them off but why should I?
Your accusations are growing stale. It shows more of your insecurities in the subject material. I would love nothing more, than to see you continue. 😊
@TheOneyouwerewarnedabout Do you realuze every single vaccine on the market has some anaphylactic shock deaths associated with it?? Not every death of someone who took the vaccine was caused by the vaccine either. AERS requires reporting all, but causality is not determined in most of those cases.
That's why it's called a delusion. They believe what their brain tells them over what their eyes see or doesn't see. They also keep claiming they are hiding the truth of vaccine deaths. Not realizing you can't find what doesn't exist.
Of course there is no real evidence. Its a conspiracy theory that a certain type of person loves so much. There is a small upside to this in that these people as individuals are statistically less likely to thrive in a pandemic, being hit by the virus and weakened or killed. Sadly they will spread the bug to others in this act, but thats only one side.. The other broader picture is that the societies as a whole who foster these beliefs will be generally weakened. Losing 700,000 people is bad of course. But the disruptions to business, supply chains, manufacturing and the financial state of whole populations will push a whole society into decline, relative to others, who respond more sensibly.😷
Because there is a mountain of bullshit going around the internet. Including a quack doctor who is claiming it makes you magnetic. You can't make up this shit.
@iamonfire696 Doctor Goodpenny. No idea where she got her doctorate but like the ones who sold out to Phillip Morris in the 90s she clearly has here credentials up for sale and is not above conning stupid people.
@Oster1 Obtaining evidence that these trolls would find to be acceptable is going to be impossible. They would demand scientific evidence, not statistics. But you can’t get scientific evidence from any research laboratory against ANY vaccine. Congress made sure that big pharma cannot be sued should side effects occur from a vaccine. So any lab that did come up with proof positive that a vaccine was killing people would never get a day in court and would be run out of business by an industry that is in perfect lock step with the powers that be. These are the facts that the sheep turn a blind eye to repeatedly. Willingly. But the blind often always think they know everything. Don’t waste your time on these fools.
Because disinformation is gratifying to conservatives and makes liberals spin their wheels to explain the truth. We get that frenzy instead of a public political debate.
@MistyCee You see .. that's my point. All the political party power is put forth on a guys like Biden and Trump? There isn't an ability to identify and groom better candidates?
Both sidesism at least doesn't turn a blind eye to the failings of my own party. I'm open to the idea change is needed among conservatives .. isn't that exactly what you said was needed over Trumpism, etc concerns??
All you do is point the finger across the aisle. How are you exempt from owning the issues on the Dem side and being responsible for changing them? Grow up and accept your share .. or quit fecking preaching at me.
@GJOFJ3 on the internet, disinformation spreads faster than the truth. That's why we keep hearing that the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease. The internet was made to work that way because disinformation is gratifying to conservatives and causes liberals to waste time explaining the truth. Sound familiar? Exceptional people pop up all the time to gratify conservatives and distract the rest.
@Stopmakingsense I'm conservative and speak out against bullshit on both sides of this. I did here .. and elsewhere against mandates, firing and refusing care for the unvaccinated. I see others doing the same.
Not everyone is as ignorant as you are. Plenty of evidence out there but it takes looking for it rather then showing off your ignorance typing posts like this.
Off course not killing more than Covid, but it did kill several thousand of recipient and injured several thousands more. Combine with the fact that these vaccines fail to curb the pandemic, it is just very disappointing.
@LadyGrace Here in the US the evidence of adverse effects from the vaccine are not being hid or censored. Somewhere between 6,000 and 12,000 people have died in the 3 week period following getting the vaccine. It is not proven how many of those deaths were a direct result of the vaccine Even taking the 12,000 figure, with 184 million people getting the vaccine that is a death rate of .000065% With 44 million cases of Covid causing 700,000 deaths, If the death rate from the vaccine was the same as the death rate from COVID we would have had 2,927,000 deaths from the vaccine. These are the facts Yes everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but opinions do not change facts
@GJOFJ3 Those are the statistics the government told us. Consider those they haven't told us. They only tell us what they want us to know and believe. History proves it. It'd be different if they'd had a history of telling people the truth and really cared. Give me a vaccine or pill that is safe and tested, and I'll take it, however, this madness of forcing this on people without choice, is invasive and offensive. No other mandate for vaccines during a previous pandemic, was forced on people and they were just as bad, yet people weren't threatened to have their jobs taken away and told they couldn't go shopping or go to school, if they didn't have the vaccine. It's not right.
No they never have solid evidence. They cite claims they've read on biased sites but these do not reflect an accurate picture at all! Thousands and thousands have died from COVID and a relative very few have died from side effects, usually clots, associated with Astra Zeneca vaccine mainly. Moderna and Pfizer have less risk in terms of clots
SW-User
Because they're hoovering up outright lies from far-right anti-vax sites and either believe them unquestioningly or just troll the false info to everyone they can for kicks.
@Mindful Same .. not even anyone with more than moderate case of aches, chills, etc. I know more serious things have occurred .. but the frequency is very low.
@Mindful No one I know, either. But I [b]do[/b] now know people who’ve died from Covid itself. It’s ironic that some of the same people who saw the number of Covid-19 deaths as [b]negligible[/b] are needing to search for vaccine deaths as an excuse not to treat it.
@AwakeningConfession221122 How convenient that you have "unofficial" data supposedly released accidentally by some agency that is at least three times the rates reported anywhere else on the planet that also involves no determined causality. Got anything verifiable ??
@Tres13 Have not been in my basement. Still get out and do most of what I did preCovid. Just pushing back against the deliberate posting of bullshit information by you and your conspiracy theory pals.
Its more likely you are in a basement .. at your mom's house .. where you live. Fits the profile for your type.
@MarineBob nah they’ll just mark it down as Covid Australia’s third wave where most of the population is vaccinated, death rates have climbed a lot higher and alll ages Where that hotel quarantine bungle that lead to Melbourne’s second wave last year and 800 deaths, but all of those deaths happened over the course of 5 months and all of those deaths were people 60+ but there was one death of a guy in his 30s but it was proven he didn’t due from Covid but just was a confirmed case as he died from another illness. But how did we go from 900 to 1600 deaths within 2 months while vaccination rates are getting higher and Australia is now seeing daily infection rates but the 1000s fir the first time. We our daily counf today is just a few short of 2000 but the vax rates are climbing too. 🤔 something doesn’t add up.
@MarineBob Now we both know you are smarter than that. Anyone admitted to hospital is Covid tested on arrival and isolated (or in third world contries segregated away from non infected patients) for treatment. So they are known to have Covid. They may also have a dozen other complaints. Even Cystic Fibrosis. But they were coping with this fine until Covid. So while comorbidities with Covid are common, if they had not caught Covid they would be alive today. Therefore death is from Covid. Unless of course you want to allow my claim what not becoming fully vaccinated is a sign of a lack of intelligence and therefore anyone who has failed to get vaccinated and subsequently catches the virus and dies actually died of stupidity.. I thought not. 😷
No evidence so far. Yes there has been complications. Deaths can be attributed to something else that they didn't know they had. Because a flare-up happened after they got the shot or shots. Just like the J&J Vaccine that they claim causes blood clots. The blood clots formed because of somethings else. I've had both J&J Shots. I also have Heart Disease and I'm being treated for that with meds taken daily. According to all of the naysayers out there, I should be dead right now. I got my J&J Booster back in November.
No one seems to have come up with this evidence, but much like the claims of massive election fraud in the 2020 election, the Clinton body bags, Pizzagate, Trump's biggest ever innauguration crowd or birtherism, having large numbers of people believing it serves political purposes, e.g. calling the Biden admin's efforts to deal with Covid Nazi-like.
@MistyCee Firing people who choose not to be vaccinated is pretty Nazi-Like. I did get vaxed and support the vaccines .. but others have to decide for themselves. Not your place to judge that.
@Stillwaiting Nazi-like in the sense that National Socialism worked towards a national goal at the expense of individual liberty maybe.
It's surely "socialism" in that sense, and there's enough libertarian in me to be concerned about mandates being an encroachment against rights.
But, at the same time, I think one of the functions of government is to protect the common welfare against the unwise unrestricted excercise of individual rights when the excercise of those rights is harmful to others and to the "common welfare."
We can talk about the Nazi thing, and the power of the label as a political tool, but the fact is, every government since we've had governments, and even before, when you had one chief divvying up the mammoth hunt, set up rules limiting individual liberty for the common benefit of the tribe or tribes.
Biden, to his credit, resisted mandates for awhile, and while you can fault his administration for doing that, and for only recently running ads with cover victims who wish they'd gotten vaccines, I can't fault him for being a reluctant authoritarian in the face of a disease which kind of demands some sort of an authoritarian response, and a movement promoting chaos, death and disruption for selfish political ends.
I was never a Biden fan, but, like McConnell, and unlike Trump, I've always thought that he had a long term vision beyond himself seems to try to keep that in mind.
My guess is, Trump and his followers didn't really think they're endangering the human race, and that they're just a tad self interested and focused on short term personal gains, but I still think they're wrong, and that ideas like thou shalt not bear false witness, covet thy neighbors wife, and even the Hillel/Jesus golden rule simplification are things we shouldn't abandon.
No they don't have solid evidence. Because the very same people that they say are telling them this, were asked if they would give the vaccine to their children and every single one of them said YES.
No, they don't have any solid evidence because it's not true. I have a friend who knows someone who has an uncle who died in a car accident while wearing a seat belt. So... seat belts kill more people than they save.
@GJOFJ3 Gag - are you sure you aren't exaggerating or, ... you know adjusting the truth to fit your narrative? I mean Joe is pretty well informed on the vaccine business, and I don't think he would have said [quote]the Moderna & Pfizer vaccine have killed more people than Covid-19[/quote] Cuz that's very extreme, and it's the pro-vax folks that seem more prone to extremes.
So, you want to adjust your comment? Review what Joe ACTUALLY said? Or, simply apologize for overstating the truth?
