Skeptics, Where Is Your Evolution History?

@AbbySvenz hey kangaroos can hop a long distance... I'm more interested in the tiny or slow moving ones.

Like the Kiwi birds, being tiny and flightless, they didn't go very far, very fast, and they got all the way to New Zealand. And their closest relatives include ostriches, emus, rheas and cassowaries... which are all huge freaking birds.

@Viper LOL! They would have to have been very good at hopping to cross a great expanse of ocean!

(Australia, New Zealand and Tasmania became isolated from what became the major continents long enough ago for their own fauna and flora to develop in their distinctive ways. Don't tell the OP though. It will upset him. :-) )

@AbbySvenz Kiwis dropped them off.

If ANYone can, the KIWI can!

@GodSpeed63
But not the debate itself. I won that with ease.
You never even knew when it happened

@DocSavage [quote]But not the debate itself. I won that with ease.[/quote]

Wake up, Doc, your day dreaming again.

@GodSpeed63
Not so Chowder head, unlike you, I provided evidence. The fact you can’t read cuneiform doesn’t change what it says.
The score is DocSavage : 1
Godspeed63 : 0 ( that’s his IQ as well )

@Roadsterrider there’s a reconstruction of the Mayflower at Plymouth MA built to the original specifications. The bunks are about five feet long.

@redredred And how is that proof that we evolved from another creature? That is evidence of adaptation, not evolution.

@Roadsterrider Well, it clearly suggests support for The point made earlier that humans have gotten taller over the years. Adaptation could easily be seen as support for evolution but the common everyday work in modern genetics labs is far more compelling.

@jackieash Indeed. I think he just likes picking a fight.

@ArishMell @jackieash [quote]YOU are the one with nothing because you are frightened to open your mind and heart. [/quote]

My heart and mind are open to what's true and not to what can fit my agenda. My question challenges those who claim that Word of God is a myth and not reliable without evidence or facts to support that claim.

@GodSpeed63 You have contradicted yourself yet again. Your heart and mind are [i]not[/i] open to anything except only you own, deeply religious idea of what is "God's Word", and you reject, despise, insult any other.

You can't even accept that you can understand and appreciate all that modern science is discovering about the universe, the development of life etc, but still believe it all God's work.

Indeed, to believe not only that it is God's work, but that as the Science you hate shows us, His Creation is far, far older, more complicated, more wonderful, majestic and beautiful than the sort of spontaneous-generation model that the Ancient Hebrews had to adopt.

The ancients though had a genuine excuse. They had no choice. They [i]genuinely[/i] could not have known. Even the Classical Greeks, who were much more technically advanced than the other cultures around them, were equally, genuinely ignorant about Nature beyond what was obviously clear to the naked eye.

You do not have that excuse. Theologically and intellectually, you are more than lazy. You refuse to know because you think knowledge sinful in some way. No wonder people ridicule you.

You are rather like the Taliban. They too appear to think that anything not mentioned - and approved if not actually commanded - in their scripture cannot exist, must be considered as wrong and to be suppressed. (Unless of course, personally useful, like the Internet.)

@ArishMell Beautifully said. Thanks!

@ArishMell And I bet you think that organic chemicals evolve. Now that is truly funny!

@hippyjoe1955 The laugh's on me, not you. Of course I don't!

I happen to have learnt half a century ago at school that "organic compounds" are simply those based on Carbon.

@Nunatak [quote]so you dont believe the truth you adhere to, to be the only truth?[/quote]

Those are your words, not mine.

@GodSpeed63 hehehe.
Nup. You claim your perception is the only truth. You can't even accept a respectful passive retreat.

Your need to argue is so strong.
Ahh, that was funny.😂

@Nunatak [quote]You claim your perception is the only truth.[/quote]

Wrong again. It's not my perception that matters here but God's perception is what really matters here.

@GodSpeed63
No you won’t.
I’m still waiting for that light year.

@GodSpeed63 Believe me, I get more respect than a sputtering old fool like you. BTW, did you get my offer to prove there no god? All you have to do is state unequivocally what you will accept as proof and prove there are no bison in your kitchen.

@GodSpeed63
God doesn’t speak, you don’t have his word. You just have an old book written be humans

@GodSpeed63 I notice you never actually address the evidence or the specific question. It's fair to ask how all these photons -- that are now arriving at our telescopes from galaxies 1+ billion lightyears away -- got onto the paths they are on?

It's a fair question and you keep ducking it. You also want to hold yourself up as an example of how you're made morally superior by your religion. Instead you're giving us an example of deceptive tactics. Not a good look.

You're also avoiding the very simple Bible question about the "four corners of the Earth." Does that mean the Earth is a quadrilateral? Perhaps a square??

Or does it mean that the Bible is not always literal, but sometimes allegorical and metaphorical? You don't believe in a flat, four cornered Earth, do you?? so how can you be sure which parts of the Bible are literal and which parts are metaphorical???

@ElwoodBlues [quote] how can you be sure which parts of the Bible are literal and which parts are metaphorical???[/quote]

Through God's Spirit.

[quote] I notice you never actually address the evidence or the specific question. It's fair to ask how all these photons -- that are now arriving at our telescopes from galaxies 1+ billion lightyears away -- got onto the paths they are on? [/quote]

Why do you believe that's an impossible task for God to accomplish?

@GodSpeed63 You ducked the question again! Does Earth have four corners or not? It's a simple yes or no.

[quote]Through God's Spirit.[/quote]
As I've have pointed out, "God's Spirit" seems to be telling many other folks something very very different. And what those others are hearing from "God's Spirit" is a lot more compatible with the evidence! Why should we trust your version of "God's Spirit" over theirs?? You seem to be holding yourself up as an inerrant interpreter of Scripture. Why should ANYONE, even yourself, believe in your inerrancy???

[quote]Why do you believe that's an impossible task for God to accomplish?[/quote] I never said that; please don't put words in my mouth. If that's your answer -- God faked the apparent ages of stars, galaxies, fossils, etc -- then I have to ask WHY? I'm coming at this from the perspective that God isn't a liar, so correct me if I'm wrong. Why would God fake all that evidence?? I'm not doubting that an infinitely powerful being could fake infinite amounts of evidence; I'm asking for what purpose would God deceive those who inquire about nature???

@Nunatak The Bible is the most amazing book, and too complicated and prophetic for man to have written it, absolutely impossible! Scholars with PHD's and the most educated understand that this book is given to humanity from God! And the most blessed people in the world, and the most blessed countries in the world are Christian countries!

Thank you very much @Carazaa 🤗 . May God richly bless you too 🙏

@SW-User Awww thank you! ❤️ 🙏 🕊️

@Carazaa

[quote]It is all "God breathed"[/quote]

What is the basis for this assertion? The inspiration argument is a difficult one to make...most of the verses offered up in "support" are far narrower than what people think.

[quote]All the versions say the
same thing.[/quote]

? With regard to what?

@SomeMichGuy


In regards to Gods meaning!



All Scripture is God-Breathed

2 Tim
From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.…
Berean Study Bible · Download

Deuteronomy 29:29
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, so that we may follow all the words of this law.




Romans 15:4
For everything that was written in the past was written for our instruction, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures, we might have hope.

2 Peter 1:20
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from one's own interpretation.

2 Peter 1:21
For no such prophecy was ever brought forth by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.



All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:



2 Samuel 23:2
The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.

Matthew 21:42
Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Matthew 22:31,32,43
But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, …



Psalm 19:7-11
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple…



Micah 2:7
O thou that art named the house of Jacob, is the spirit of the LORD straitened? are these his doings? do not my words do good to him that walketh uprightly?



2 Timothy 3:10
But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,



2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Proverbs 6:23
For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

Proverbs 15:10,31
Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die…


2 Timothy 2:25
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Deuteronomy 4:36
Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire.

Nehemiah 9:20
Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them, and withheldest not thy manna from their mouth, and gavest them water for their thirst.



Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God.--Although this rendering is grammatically possible, the more strictly accurate translation, and the one adopted by nearly all the oldest and most trustworthy versions (for example, the Syriac and the Vulgate), and by a great many of the principal expositors in all ages (for instance, by such teachers as Origen, Theodoret, Grotius, Luther, Meyer, Ellicott, and Alford), runs as follows: "Every scripture inspired by God is also profitable for doctrine, for reproof," &c.
The rendering followed by the English version, and which is certainly grammatically possible, by making--"all Scripture" the subject, and "given by inspiration of God" the predicate, declares positively the inspiration of all the Old Testament Scriptures, for this is what the Apostle must have referred to, if we understand this verse as we have it rendered in the English version above. The New Testament at this period was certainly not all written; for instance, St. John's Gospel, St. John's Epistles, the Epistle to the Hebrews, and the Apocalypse, with several of the Catholic Epistles, probably were composed at a later date than that assigned to this letter to Timothy. St. Paul, massing together an evidently well-known number of writings under the term ???? ?????, spoke of the Jewish Scriptures, the "canon" of which was then determined.

But such a declaration of the inspiration of these writings to Timothy and to those associated with him would seem unnecessary and uncalled for. Timothy and the trained Jew of the first century would never dream of doubting the divine origin of their most prized and sacred writings. There is nothing in the verses immediately preceding which would call out such a statement. It seems, therefore, on exegetical, as well as on grammatical, considerations best to follow the interpretation of those ancient and venerable witnesses the Syriac and Latin (Jerome's) versions, and to understand St. Paul's words here, as asserting that every inspired writing (this, it should be observed, does not exclude those recent sacred compositions which--Gospels or Epistles--he had seen or written himself, and the divine origin of which he well knew) is profitable for doctrine, &c. Thus he exhorted Timothy to show himself a contrast to the false teachers--ever shifting their ground and waxing worse and worse--by keeping steadily to the old teaching of doctrine and of life. He was not to change, not to advance, but was to remember that every inspired Scripture was profitable for doctrine and for life. It was by these writings, St. Paul would remind him, that he must test his teaching. On the way in which "inspiration of God" was understood in the Church of the first days, see Excursus at the end of this Epistle.

Inspiration of God.--This thought, perhaps, rather than these words, is admirably paraphrased by St. Peter: "Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost" (2Peter 1:21). The various uses of Holy Scripture in the training of the man of God are set forth in the enumeration which closes this verse. These sacred writings must, in all ages, St. Paul would urge, be the hand-book of the Christian teacher. From it he must prove the doctrines he professes; hence, too, he must draw his reproofs for the ignorant and erring. It must be the one source whence he derives those instructions which teach the Christian how to grow in grace.

EXCURSUS ON NOTES TO II. TIMOTHY.

@Carazaa

[quote]In regards to Gods meaning![/quote]

But that's the problem; there ARE differences in translations.

I think God definitely has messages, but the translations do not agree (and there are some *historic*, well-known fails).

@GodSpeed63 I asked you a long time ago where is it written that the Bible is true. I told you self-reference is not allowed. That’s a simple question. Using your sense of “logic”, you told me I had to prove something.

What proof do I have to provide to ask a question?

You’re simply temporizing because you don’t have an answer. You’re a phony and everyone knows it.

@redredred [quote]I asked you a long time ago where is it written that the Bible is true.[/quote]

Where were you when I told you where it was? Are you asking because you want to know the Word of God is true or are you trying to make a point?

@Pikachu I'm a Catholic, but I can even see that this guy is blissfully ignorant. He is purposely ignoring your query regarding oil. Born agains always seem to deflect to protect creationism. The world is billions of years old. Oil proves it.

@Pikachu He can't reply to the oil question because he has no answer. Somewhat similar to my telescope question.

@Pikachu It's funny how we an use the age of the universe to explain perfectly how everything works!

Funny that.

@JimboSaturn [quote]Do you read? There is, the Chinese, Incas, Aztecs, Indian civilizations, as well as native American. [/quote]

So?

@GodSpeed63
"I’m still waiting for you to come with alternative historical records that show the accounts in the Word of God to be myths."
The purpose of Science isn´t at all to disprove (and neither to prove) the narrative of any faith.
If it happens, so be it.

@ElRengo [quote]The purpose of Science isn´t at all to disprove (and neither to prove) the narrative of any faith.
If it happens, so be it.[/quote]

I'm talking about science, science points to God. I'm talking about those who try to fit science into their world views as a means to change the historical events established in the Word of God.

@Nunatak [quote]Told ya.[/quote]

Told me what?

@GodSpeed63 🤦‍♀️that you won't accept.
And now in repeating myself.

Which is where i take my leave.
Adieu.

@Nunatak [quote]that you won't accept. And now in repeating myself.[/quote]

You didn't say anything yet.

@JimboSaturn It's the only way it makes sence if you don't trust in the Bible.

@JimboSaturn [quote]Almost every observation, in every field of science points to a a very old universe. It is the only ways the natural world makes sense. There is an overwhelming avalanche of evidence as opposed to faith in one book.[/quote]

The overwhelming avalanche of evidence comes from your world views and not from science itself. Which requires more faith, God creating the heavens and the earth or some so called 'big bang' exploding out of nothing to produce the universe and everything in it?

@Carazaa I actually agree with you there. If you don't believe in the Bible, science makes sense. It's a decision between empiricism and faith.

@SW-User Thank you!

There seems to have been many migrations of people and ideas for a very long time so each society is very likely to have absorbed various myths and beliefs from each other. Especially around the Mediterranean, which had quite a variety around it.

We are not likely to know how deeply the leaders of the time thought about their policies and actions; but some of those movements were accompanied by various wars for power or territory.

Whatever the origins and intended meanings of the stranger stories in it, there is a strong thread in the OT of the Hebrew leaders trying to impose what we might now call a state religion, and that involved rooting out the old faiths such as that of Baal.

Not at first though: Baal was worshipped in much of the Middle East as the God of Fertility and of dew and rain, so vital in that region. He seems to have been something of a flexible deity, as different people saw and used him in their own ways. The early Israelites continued this for a while, in a rather demoted way as Lord of Israel; and the word even became a personal name-part, e.g. King Saul's son Ishbaal. Then Jezebel tried to introduce the Phoenician version of Baal as a rival to God, causing the Hebrews to turn against that belief and reduce the word "baal" to one of contempt. This happened around 9-8 hundred years BCE.
[i](Source: Encylopaedia Britannica) [/i]

Clearly, those chronicling their own history were keen to make themselves seem ever so good, but they also needed keep their society together, and a single God they could portray as a rather unpleasant tyrant when he chose was an ideal way to do so. Since they genuinely had no idea how the natural world works, beyond what can be observed obviously enough such as the Moon's phases or the Nile's annual floods, they had to fall back on accepting it all as God's work at His pleasure, so it would be a good idea not to upset Him.

Other cultures around the world had their own gods but roughly similar ideas. If the priestly caste, among the intelligentsia of their time, were savvy enough to work out what would happen, it was very advantageous to them to correlate a correctly-predicted event with having propitiated the right gods. It showed that the rites "obviously" worked and how clever are the priests. A simple example is that of frightening away the dragon eating the Sun or Moon, as the Chinese saw eclipses: their astronomers were able to predict them quite accurately, as well.

Tragically these rites in some societies included animal or even human sacrifices; and I think I'm right that to their credit the Hebrews did not use human sacrifices, and eventually put an end to sacrificing animals.

Prophecies are an extension of this idea - they "work" if you make the prophesy sufficiently vague and provide no clues of when and how it might happen.

Thank you @ArishMell . You have abstracted most of the historical practices.
In all, the inventions progressed according to the need of man. And Gods were invented too, having features in accordance with their respective cultures. It was a practice to invade less powerful kingdoms and widen the geography of ones own kingdom. Similarly I feel the fight for true God also started. Rituals and practices were evaluated and required approval to become eligible under the supreme God's terms and condition. Exploring and exploiting mindsets propelled the power hungry to define the narrative and characteristics of God. The range of God's character varied from warriors to victims. Gods were tested in accordance with human sentiments and sacrifice became a key feature.
Finally the one and only true God became heavily dependent on the power of His/Her follower's voice.

@ArishMell @SW-User [quote]Finally the one and only true God became heavily dependent on the power of His/Her follower's voice.[/quote]

You're guessing, guys, you have nothing as usual.

@GodSpeed63 youre funny man .
The more i talk to you, the more you appear like one of those grumpy old men one finds at the supermarket;
Always looking outwards for something to complain about, lookkng down on people.
We all cope differnt ways , you have found yours .

@Nunatak [quote]Always looking outwards for something to complain about, lookkng down on people.[/quote]

Learn to spell. Who says I'm looking down on others?

@GodSpeed63
[b]Says who ?[/b]

@GodSpeed63 you and all of you Bible bashers has not answered.
Tell me and frigging show me in the Bible that explains the similaritys between a mouse's, a human, an ape and a whale skeleton. I want from what book, chapter number, line number FROM your BIBLE.
I used my eyes, not from a book.
I wait with bated breath. I bet you can't

@Robynthebeautiful [quote]you and all of you Bible bashers has not answered.[/quote]

We don't bash Bibles.

[quote]Tell me and frigging show me in the Bible that explains the similaritys between a mouse's, a human, an ape and a whale skeleton.[/quote]

Learn to spell, Robynthebeautiful. First, tell me what your deal is.

[quote]I used my eyes, not from a book.[/quote]

There's none more blind than those who refuse to see the Truth of God.

@Robynthebeautiful As a Christian who believes that in the beginning God created all that has been created I take the similarity of various life forms as the work of a common Designer.

@JimboSaturn Naah. God put all those photons in flight six minutes ago and faked the contents of all our memories, photo albums, file cabinets, etc. The world is only six minutes old! Will wonders never cease!!

@ArishMell


🍊 I don't study these people so I can't comment on people, I just read the Bible, and ofcourse I have two graduate degrees.

But let me tell you that there are many thousand Bible promises in the Bble, and if you test them you will find them to be true. And there are thousands of Bible prophesies that have come true, and are coming true as we speak.

Jesus said we will have birth pangs that increase in strength and frequency until he comes back for us; pestilence, earthquakes, iniquity, cold hearts, terrors, disrespect of parents, increased knowledge, increased travel, mocking the Bible, false Christs, and falling away from the faith.

The more I cling to God the more he helps me and my family. My life is good! I am so sad that the world is in bad shape ofcourse but God is still in control, and he is giving us sign after sign that Jesus is coming soon to end all the violence and sadness in the world. Please don't disregard Jesus words because you believe what some people say about genes, or the age of the universe.

[quote][b]"Eye has not seen , ear has not heard, minds have not imagine what God has prepared for those who love him." 1 Cor 2:9 [/b][/quote]
❤️🌷❤️

@DocSavage [quote]Check out his debate with Bill Nye on YouTube. Nye smoked him on his home turf.[/quote]

I watched the video and Ken Ham flamed Bill Nye hands down. You do a lot of wishful on here, Doc, no wonder you lose on here. Get real, Doc.

@GodSpeed63
Nye sliced him with with one answer. Ham couldn’t even save Noah’s ark

@GodSpeed63 I literally answered your question before you asked it, which is why I posted the two article links.

@Viper [quote]I literally answered your question before you asked it, which is why I posted the two article links.[/quote]

World views do not count here. The Word of God is not someone's opinion but the Truth.

@Viper [quote] which is just factually wrong.[/quote]

So is Godspeed63, on everything, always

@GodSpeed63 Read any physics book and why can't you answer my question?

@GodSpeed63 It would be lost on you.

@GodSpeed63
It was on the last season of “Arrow”
Oliver Queen battled the Anti Monitor, going back in time into the Anti dimension. The fight unleashed a massive explosion of energy which created our universe. You can see it on video, or stream it. Let’s see your god top that.

@anythingoes477 sorry , dont know who she is .
But that was funny 😆

@Nunatak @Ferise1 [quote]Mya stands for 'million years ago[/quote]

Dead men tell no tales. Whoever did the test on the age of those skulls, failed to give the correct age on them. Therefore, their claims are no good.

@GodSpeed63 😂😂😂

@DocSavage Behold, I bring you tidings of great joy! Science assures us that low-probability events CAN occur!

@DocSavage Wow, it's good thing science doesn't "assume that miracles are impossible." Science looks at all possible explanations. If there are multiple possible explanations, science tries to repeat the event under close observation, possibly with slight variations, in an effort to eliminate possibilities and zero in on the true explanation.

If you can produce a guy who walks on water under close observation, in experimental conditions, science will concede its miraculous nature. If during your trip home from work you hit seven green lights in a row, science will not view this as miraculous.

@Bushmanoz Noah was 600 when he built the ark, he was 950 when he died.

@Bushmanoz Everyone lived longer before the flood. Noah was about one thousand years old when he died. God shortened life span after the population increased and they were increasingly sinning.

@LordShadowfire [quote]Since you have failed to produce any kind of evidence that shows that Corvus Blackthorne is not a 4 foot tall extraterrestrial raven, that's also true.[/quote]

You've lost another one, ShadowfireTheSarcastic.

@GodSpeed63 Nope. I win.

You can't prove Corvus isn't real. Therefore, he is.

@LordShadowfire [quote]Nope. I win.[/quote]

Your world views are from being winners, ShadowfireTheSarcastic. You still lose.