There must be a change, a change in the culture, in America. The gun fetishism is incomprehensible, when looked at from the outside. 😐 I love America and I met so many beautiful people there, but this one element of US culture I simply can't understand.
@Diotrephes "America's gun culture is an [u]invented tradition[/u]. It was not present at the nation's creation, whenever we fix that point. Rather, it [u]developed in a single generation[/u], among those who experienced the onset of the Civil War and that disaster itself. All cultural attributes have a starting point, and a path of development. America's gun culture is unusual only in that one can determine the precise period in which a specific artifact became central to a nation's identity and self-conception. [u]Prior to the 1860s, guns were not perceived as a significant component of America's national identity[/u], essential to its survival. The literature on early American culture repeatedly locates the core values of most Americans in either religious or liberal sensibilities, though this is obviously a sweeping generalization. The prosperity and survival of the United States depended on the grace of God, or civic virtue, or the individual's pursuit of self-interest. The notion that a well-armed public buttressed the American dream would have appeared harebrained to most Americans before the Civil War. But starting in the 1850s, cultural and social standards began a fairly rapid shift that soon placed guns in ever more American hands and at the core of essential cultural values. [u]By the mid-1870s, males in the United States had a fixation with firearms that any modern enthusiast would recognize and salute.[/u]" Source: [i]https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/b/bellesiles-arming.html[/i] I've subscribed to the online version of the NYT. Not sure whether you have access to the NYT archives without subscription.
@helenS Review American history. American culture has always included guns. One of the first gun control laws was passed before the ink was dry on the Constitution. The SCOTUS eventually ruled it unconstitutional.
@dancingtongue The NRA has their annual meeting in Houston, Texas this weekend. Scheduled speakers include failed former president Trump, Governor Abbott, Texas Senators Cruz and Cornyn, and others. Will any of these folks cancel given this tragedy?
This is why I keep saying regulate guns like cars. You wouldn't give a car to a child, you wouldn't give a car to someone who has no license, you wouldn't give a car to someone with a history of vehicular manslaughter.
@LordShadowfire That’s right. The GOP voted against that bill as well as the one keeping guns out of the hands of people on terrorist watchlists. They had the opportunity not to risk it and decided to go with arming them.
@windinhishair There are alot of countries with plenty of guns. But two things make the US unique. Regulations are a joke and a toxic right wing gun culture that teaches guns are status symbols and symbols of manhood that results in people who think solving interpersonal problems with bullets is acceptable behavior.
They want everyone to have a gun so the good guys shoot the bad guys. Looks like they dont remember America already tried that before and it didn't work. It led to *gasp* more killings. There is a reason the wild west is called wild. They had everything they wanted then. Guns, traditional family values, racism and genocide and sexism, no women's rights, good old fashion religion, etc... But people didnt have rights and people were being killed at the slightest offense.
@LordShadowfire Cops are some of the dumbest people on the planet. They know that people have the right to carry guns and that a good guy might be shooting at a bad guy to defend his life. But when the cops show up they simply proceed to shoot everyone in sight. In such cases they need to be stripped and given a hundred lashes with a cat of nine tails on the spot.
I’m not a gun owner. My son is My son a some guns. I have no interest. But is not the guns. It people. We must take better care of people so they don’t harm others.
@basilfawlty89 no someone who does that is not potentially mentally ill. And I have a whole lot more going on in my life than you can possibly imagine. So sorry if I’m not on your wave link. I have a life
@Jonjdw so what you're really saying is that if the terrorist is white, he's "mentally disturbed or ill", but if they're brown, they're just terrorists?
The 2nd Amendment adopted in 1791 "A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
No definition of the type of arms (weapons). No age restrictions for people. No training requirements. No safety requirements. No licenses. No background checks. No mental health requirements. No red flags. If any of these things are made laws would they be violations of the 2nd Amendment ? Infringed: Actively break the terms of a law or agreement.
@BetweenKittensandRiots Agree, it's both and other factors also. I'm not aware of the anti-gun lobby viewing it in simplicity - perhaps some do. It's always been all the factors. Gun access is one potentially achievable action among many (mental health issues will continue even with good policies, but this should be part of the plan). How do I know? Because we did it in my country and it worked. (Yes, US is different and more complex in its social history around guns and level of gun ownership. But the gun lobby excluding it from any hint of policy change is not working. No commercial interests at work there, hey.)
@Strictgram What "Self defense"?, he had no business being there to begin with, he had obtained the firearm illegally and he killed 2 other humans. Playing weekend warrior because he thought he was a soldier of tRump??? Thank fuck he didn't kill more in "self defense" 😖
@windinhishair No. Not fear. Its pure survival mode. You can't deny that crime in the US is outta control with drugs and violent crimes. Why set yourself up to be a victim, when you can be a survivor. That's strength, not fear.
@Montanaman Violent crimes rates have been trending down significantly since 1990. Robberies are well below half of what they were in 1990 and continuing to trend down. What are you protecting yourself from if violent crimes rates are decreasing, while your fear is increasing? Why the need to protect yourself from hordes of invaders with multiple weapons if you can only use one at a time? A simple handgun or rifle should be sufficient.
I'm not armed and never will be. I don't go through life afraid to live.
School shooting sould be considered as a bad part of Amercian culture and irrelevant of who supports whcih political party, and who is for or against gun owning regulations, it should be stopped....
Social pathology studies, strategies, plans and programs, education, some restrictions and bringing It all into action.........
It will be a long procedure but all the way worth it....
What is the population of American teenagers?? How many of them pick up a gun to kill??
Correct education, family, love and trust is what they need ...
That is why I mentioned education not only for kids but also for parents ....
I live in Iran.... We cant even find necessary meds for special diseases in the market.... very very high inflation... low GDP ... jobless youngsters ..... no school shooting or mass killing happens here.... kids stay depressed yet, hopeful.... that's the effect of living with loving parents and family education...
Gun culture has been made a core element of American self-perception. It will not go away soon. Even if thousands of children were killed at a time. A school that has been converted into a slaughterhouse will only lead to "Hey we need more guns to protect our children." I believe that school shootings will result in sold-out gun stores.
@ProfessorPlum77 A couple of years ago, a man armed with more than a dozen assault weapons and thousands of rounds designed to kill did so in Las Vegas. 60 people died and more than 600 were wounded.
@ProfessorPlum77 Worked out well for most of those who believe in facts and science. The deniers died in far larger numbers and have much higher rates of long covid. Natural selection in action.
Here we go, everyone to their corners spewing their rhetoric and party lines... Ban all guns vs We dont have a gun problem.....As if there is nothing in between to do to help. Fuck all of you. You people clearly on care about yourselves not the well being of anyone else.
Fetuses are important, children not so much. There aren't any Republican lobby groups trying to keep kids alive. The Republicans in Senate and Congress work the hardest the day after a dozen or more children are blown away. "Now is not the time to talk about this, thoughts and prayers, yada, yada."
@iamelijah [quote]I wonder why guns are so accessible in America? At school? Do children allowed to use guns? [/quote] Have you ever heard of Canada, Germany, Mexico?
[b][i]Police describe deadly shooting inside east-end Toronto high school as 'execution;' 14-year-old boy charged[/i][/b] https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/police-describe-deadly-shooting-inside-east-end-toronto-high-school-as-execution-14-year-old-boy-charged-1.5782104
[b][i]Teen arrested, two other suspects at large in shooting outside Toronto high school[/i][/b] https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/teen-arrested-two-other-suspects-at-large-in-shooting-outside-toronto-high-school-1.5911254
[b][i]Germany school shooting injures one, suspect arrested[/i][/b] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/19/germany-school-shooting-injures-one-suspect-arrested
[b][i]Mexico: two killed after 11-year-old opens fire at school[/i][/b] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/10/mexico-school-shooting-torreon
[b][i][b][i]Student killed by classmate in Germany stabbing attack[/i][/b][/i][/b] https://www.business-standard.com/article/news-ians/student-killed-by-classmate-in-germany-stabbing-attack-118012300946_1.html
Chinese love their knives and axes=
[b][i]Why Does China Have So Many School Stabbings? Knife or axe-attacks on children are distressingly common.[/i][/b] https://newrepublic.com/article/151994/china-many-school-stabbings
[b][i]37 children injured in a knife attack at elementary school in China[/i][/b] https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/04/asia/china-elementary-school-stabbing-intl-hnk/index.html
@Nanori People gather there. Notorious fame is made there. For all the "not mentioning gunmen's name to deny the satisfaction," we nonetheless discuss it 24/7 for a solid two weeks.
If I wanted to commit maximum violence in front of the largest possible audience, I'm headed right to a school. Maybe if we stop glorifying tragedy, some will stop seeking that particular cliff from which to hurl themselves.
@Nanori Parents should make sure that their rug rats aren't bullies toward other kids. Sometimes the kids who are bullied grow up to become adults who hold a grudge and are determined to retaliate against the kids they associate with the bullying acts against them. Since they can't get to the people who actually bullied them they go after the kids who remind them of their tormentors.
A real investigation would determine if any of the victims had ever engaged in bullying behavior themselves. The intent would be not to blame the victims but to understand the shooters' motives.
@GerOttman You are an absolute ghoul. Another elementary school full of kids sacrificed for your interpretation of the 2nd amendment. If you have a soul, this is time to look inside.
@ChipmunkErnie [b][i]At least 21 dead after Uvalde school shooting, officials confirm[/i][/b] https://www.kens5.com/article/news/local/texas-active-shooter-reported-robb-elementary-uvalde-police/273-cbf0d9be-d042-4557-a360-e2a3ad944a10
@ChipmunkErnie Things change by the minute when so many are injured. It is heartbreaking that such things happen and rob so many people of their futures but it is something that we all have to contend with. All we can do is hope for the best because most things are out of our control.
@helenS Now these gun laws are being made by a Republican Supreme Court with lifelong positions. It's to late to do anything about it now, the money was far more important than the hundreds of kids getting mowed down. But don't worry these kids can be replaced by forcing Women to have babies.
@helenS Isn't that the way it's been for decades. The Republicans protect the Gun Groups, Gun Manufacturers because they pay them to deflect blame after days like this. Now those people deflecting blame are in the Supreme Court.
The question of, 'What can be done to end mass shootings?" Has been asked for 56 years. Since 'The Texas Tower Incident' Aug 1, 1966 at the University of Texas. ?
@Allelse Don't you know that Texas specifies the right to bear arms in its constitution?
"Text of Section 23: Right to Keep and Bear Arms
Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime." https://ballotpedia.org/Article_1,_Texas_Constitution
The regulation of guns is primarily a State issue. The control freaks in Washington stole that power from the States.
Whats new untill the US ban all guns this will just keep happening again and again. I just dont get it that people are not doing more to get guns banned.
@Allelse The US doesn't need to get rid of the Second Amendment. According to the current interpretation of the Second Amendment by the Supreme Court (Heller v. D.C. decision in 2008), gun controls ARE allowed. The majority opinion in that case, written by right-wing Justice Antonin Scalia, clearly references gun controls as allowable, and even gives several examples. So legislation could be passed that is compliant with the Second Amendment AND regulates firearms. But there is no political will to do so by the Republican Party, and legislation cannot pass without at least 10 Republican Senators approving. The House has passed gun control bills a number of times, but they go to die in the Senate.
@Allelse The only way an Amendment can be repealed is by 3/4 of the states voting to repeal it. That cannot happen at the moment with so many Republican states. It is a non-starter.
@windinhishair Yet, that's all that will come from the Governor of Texass and other gun fetishists, thoughts and prayers for the poor little children, so sad that they were killed but hey, we still have our GUNS!, too bad some "good guy" didn't shoot this bad guy! 😖
@spjennifer The good guys did. Two first responding policemen engaged the shooter and were shot themselves before they killed him. They were not seriously injured. But with weapons of mass killing, even the short response time was sufficient to kill many.
@windinhishair Ok, when I read the news, they said then they weren't sure if it was the Police who killed him or he killed himself, thanks for the update!
