Asking
Only logged in members can reply and interact with the post.
Join SimilarWorlds for FREE »
33person · 26-30, M
Yes, and tax the hell out of the colleges and universities to pay for it. Not all at once, but have them make monthly payments on it. Let them choose if they want to pay it over the course of 10 years or 25 years, with interest. Or if they want to pay the entire cost at once, let them do that. And then make all public education funded by tax dollars. Let the government negotiate the tuition costs with the university as a single payer, a monopsony.
@33person It is perverse that New Haven is often ranked the poorest town in all of the USA and has a "non profit" university with an operating budget comparable to small nations.

OggggO · 36-40, M
Won't someone [i]please[/i] think of the poor loan sharks?

But seriously, yes, I do, and yes millennials and gen z deserve a break, we've been getting shafted for decades now.
OggggO · 36-40, M
@Slade Oh, there is a hell of a lot more to contract law than just "they signed it, so it's legal". Grossly unfair terms are grounds for nullification. As is one party lying to the other. Strangely enough, a large number of lenders do [i]both[/i].
Slade · 56-60, M
@OggggO Except for usury and coercion good luck not paying your end of the contract
PatKirby · M
@OggggO

[quote][i]millennials and gen z deserve a break[/i][/quote]

So do we.

[quote][i]we've been getting shafted for decades now.[/i][/quote]

So have we - longer.

SW-User
It's probably different for different countries, but in mine the student loans are provided by the government and administered by the tax department and people are only required to make payments when their income exceeds around $57,000 per year. The payments are automatically deducted from a persons pay like tax is and the amount is a percentage of their income. So cancelling the debt doesn't seem necessary... here at least.
dancingtongue · 80-89, M
@SW-User A much more pragmatic and reasonable approach. Unfortunately here in the U.S. we took the usual path of privatizing most of it -- because government is evil, bad, corrupt, etc., etc., ad infinitium -- by the government only guaranteeing the loans to be given by banks. Most banks saw this as an opportunity to construct the loans with high interest rates and penalties kicking in as soon as the person graduates with the government becoming the collection agency -- because they are there to be the bad guy -- and not only the existing educational institutions but a whole new crop of instant for-profit training institutes popped up to do the banks recruiting of potential loan applicants, preying particularly on the disabled and those trying to get off welfare with all sorts of fraudulent "guarantees". It was the whole used car salesmen turned mortgage broker fiasco that led to the foreclosure crisis in housing markets a decade or so ago. We never learn that privatizing is inviting greater abuse from the greedy.
SW-User
@dancingtongue Wow, yes privatisation of everything is catching on here. Some sides of politics want to privatise our medical system too, but it seems every time something is privatised the service goes down as the prices go up as profit has to go to shareholders. This is tha last thing anyone needs when it comes to higher education. My niece finished a science degree but she developed a chronic disability and will never be able to work full time in her field. She will never have to repay her loan but imagine if a private company tried to bankrupt her to extract payment? I hope we never get to that.
SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M
I do not.

I would support creative and alternative ways to fund student's interest in higher education like serving in the military or another line of service like the Peace Corp or Habitat for Humanity to earn money and/or credits for a college education.

Cancelling student debt is a waste of money bailing out people who knowingly borrowed the money and signed legal documents promising to repay the debt.
Budwick · 70-79, M
No.
It's not right for taxpayers to pay for the buyers remorse of others.

The younger generation in particular needs to learn that lesson.
nedkelly · 61-69, M
@Budwick This question was posted by a person wants everything for free
Budwick · 70-79, M
@UnderLockDown You are preaching to the choir my friend.
I especially enjoyed - 'When I have to explain simple circuit troubleshooting to a guy that has an electrical engineering degree, there is a problem with the education that he received.'

I'm so glad the world has people like you ULD. Text books are great, but application, actually getting the stuff to work - THAT'S where the rubber meets the road.
Budwick · 70-79, M
@nedkelly [quote]a person wants everything for free[/quote]

Don't we all?

I've found that the stuff I buy is generally better than the crap they give away.
Graylight · 51-55, F
Are we doing someone's homework? 😉

Yes, a large portion, if not all of it, should be cancelled. For-profit colleges now account for 11.8 percent of all undergraduates. Those are the universities who'll happily take your cash in return for "real life" credit toward a degree that could be earned for $500 at a trade school.

The cost of tuition, too, has skyrocketed in proportion of the cost of living, so it costs more than ever to attend college and it was too expensive 30 years ago. In the 60s/70s, a kid could work a summer job and pay for a semester of tuition.

And then there's the discussion of investment. Skilled labor is great, but here in Florida we've got reporters who don't grasp simple English, teachers with atrocious grammar and a generation of, well, idiots who have command - on average - of 2,000 fewer vocabulary words than their old companions but brand new 2K rims. Maybe if we honored education and progress a little more and made it accessible with the expectation it will be funneled back into society, we'd have a generation of engineers and architects instead of game-coding wannabes.

Maybe a program not unlike a domestic peace corps would bridge the gap. Got $120K for tuition? Great, but if not pledge two years to working at least part time as part of an infrastructure or healthcare programs.

This is not hard. Dozens and dozens of countries seem to be able to manage it. Obstinance is really the only thing standing in our way.
MarineBob · 56-60, M
@Graylight we have a college here where students work for their education and graduate debt free
Graylight · 51-55, F
@MarineBob Oh, you should study it and present it to the country at large. If we properly incentivize people, they'll rise to the occasion. Why do we keep accepting the "they win" scenario when everyone could be benefitting?
wildbill83 · 36-40, M
no, because it's lunacy to instead put that burden on taxpayers who are already struggling in todays shit economy...
@wildbill83 [quote] some punk that thinks they're too good to work a blue collar job?[/quote]

Am i sensing a little insecurity there? Or do you genuinely see people with post secondary education vs those without in such 1 dimensional terms?
wildbill83 · 36-40, M
@Pikachu what insecurity? two engineering degrees here, yet I'm not afraid to shovel shit. But I don't think my retired parents should be burdened by increased taxes to pay off the debts of some kid that's too afraid to get a job and get his hands dirty...
@wildbill83

[quote]what insecurity? two engineering degrees here, [/quote]

Me too. One university, one college and for the past 7 years i've been working both with the degree i earned and about 3/4 of the year, a very physically demanding job.

So if you have higher degrees and i have higher degrees but aren't afraid to shovel shit...what makes you decide that these "punks" think they're too good to get their hands dirty?
Is that the only reason you can think of that someone would struggle to pay off student debt?🤨
Crazywaterspring · 61-69, M
Yes. That debt economically paralyzes every one who carries it.
akindheart · 61-69, F
@Crazywaterspring well maybe they shouldn't have got it to begin with?? i went to a state university. i paid my way through
@akindheart Your name does not match your attitude.
wildbill83 · 36-40, M
@CorvusBlackthorne being kind does not automatically make one stupid...
theAlchemist · 56-60, M
Nope. If the students don't pay their debts who gets stuck with them? The taxpayers? Not acceptable.
Extant1 · M
A further symptom of what our founding fathers feared. What happens when people no longer vote for what is best for society at large, and begin to vote themselves advantages … it’s a never ending cycle downward.

Pay off my debts, pay me a wage to do nothing but vote, give me the necessities (food, water, shelter, oh and a cell phone)
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@Extant1 Might not be the best, but it can be a recognition that we done fucked up, and an attempt to fix it - followed by raising public education funding to normal levels. I'm not even that old, but college was affordable when I was in school, and none of us were saddled with crippling loans for simple undergrad.
Extant1 · M
Ok I can agree with that!! Except for the double whammy tax burden

I paid my loans, my kids loans, and now with my taxes the current outstanding loans, plus future loans….

Ok so it’s a fuck up, so are they all in turn gonna support my retirement fund??@QuixoticSoul
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@Extant1 Probably should, yeah.
We all get to pay for our own decisions. They chose to go into debt, they can pay it off. I see no reason why it should be taken from taxpayers.
@OggggO I agree with that, but regarding college, why not make community college free, and maybe a reasonable tuition fee for State Colleges. I don't want to pay for some spoiled kid to go to USC or Stanford.
There are plenty of scholarships out there, all one has to do is apply and have a decent GPA.
OggggO · 36-40, M
@independentone I said free [i]public[/i] education. Private institutions would still charge tuition.
@OggggO Oh, ok, Free or reasonable tuition would be nice. I would support some of our tax money going to higher education.
That could solve the problem in the future, but forgiving those who borrowed the money in the first place should pay it back. Maybe back off interest and pay principle only.
Nope. You borrow the money, you're on the hook to pay it back.
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow let us know how the inside of your colon looks.
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@BizSuitStacy You recognize the problem, but won't lift a finger to fix it - figures.

It's not even the last 30 years. It's an artifact of the great recession. This shit is very recent - school was very affordable when I was in, and I got out in '06. Marxists 🙄
@BizSuitStacy And back to throwing tantrums I see.
Flossie · 36-40, F
No. If your family cannot afford to put you through university, then you work elsewhere and save the money to put yourself through university. Why the hell should you get a free ride on the tax payer who mostly couldn't afford university themselves.
@Flossie Because in civilized nations education is not a privilege for the wealthy elite.

And what is made back in income taxes later more than makes up the difference.


Right wingers seem to think they are business geniuses but don't understand how an investment works.
Rhode57 · 56-60, M
Yes I think education should be free for all .I think its about time that no matter your class you should all get the same standard of education.
Budwick · 70-79, M
@Rhode57 [quote] you should all get the same standard of education.[/quote]

It will all be crap.
ZashaKitty · 26-30, F
and who would pay their debts? taxpayers?
I dont believe others should have to pay for peoples education past of high school
@ZashaKitty Higher educated populations mean higher income and business taxes. So you make more money in the long run.


And in the US they have actually done the math. You could send every college age kid to college for free on what the Pentagon wastes in about 7 days. I am not exaggerating.
ZashaKitty · 26-30, F
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow so you can only survive with higher education? come on now.
Is life harder without it, sure but people get on just fine without going to college and so on. People just want free handouts more and more and try to justify it as they need it to survive. You end up in higher paid careers to pay back that debt and if that isnt for you, no one forces anyone to go into that debt ..
Entitled is thinking others should have to pay for your education
@ZashaKitty [quote]so you can only survive with higher education? come on now[/quote]

Yes, and it is literally impossible to work your way through school.


Again, quit pretending it is half a century ago. A high school diploma has not been relevant for decades.

Again, the economic realities force people to do this. Pretending the economic realities of 1918 are relevant today is silly.



And no. Entitled is believing education should be kept only for the wealthy elite.
JesseInTX · 51-55, M
No the debt shouldn’t be cancelled. A college education is not a right. I’ve already put two through college by saving, cutting corners and denying myself luxuries so I could put my two kids through. I don’t hear anyone talking about paying me, or parents like me, back the money we spent. And it’s not fair that I and people like me have to contribute to any other person’s education.
PatKirby · M
@JesseInTX

Good man.
My feeling is if student debt is forgiven, what does the government tell those who’ve already paid their loans back? The government going to refund their $$$?
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@QuixoticSoul it’d be fancy if you did. Not everyone bought into the horseshit of loan forgiveness. Obviously you paid yours off. So don’t you feel others should?
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
dancingtongue · 80-89, M
Not universally, unless it is tied to free college tuition for future generations. That said, there has been a lot of predator abuse of student loan programs -- particularly by for-profit educational & training programs -- with false guarantees of paid jobs at the end, fraudulent claims that it is a government-paid program to help get people off disability/welfare programs, etc. And these keep getting compounded by penalties and interest that will never be collected. These should be forgiven and the money wasted on efforts to collect diverted into prosecution of the predatory institutions. But those who simply made stupid choices in going so heavily into debt shouldn't get any more breaks for it being student loans than credit card debt or car loans or whatever.
carpediem · 61-69, M
No. They need to start out in life by figuring out what bathroom to use. Then they need to work multiple jobs to meet the financial obligations they've committed to just like I did.
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
Universal, no - but something needs to be done, and I want to see public education funding to return to what it was. I got a world-class STEM education for a couple grand a year and it wasn’t even that long ago - got out in ‘06.

This is a self-created problem that Amerifats made for themselves after the Great Recession. It’s easy enough to fix.
@QuixoticSoul I agree the system does need to be fixed, My kids are around your age and they were able to apply for and receive scholarships and work their way through college. When I went to college, community college was 3 bucks a semester and Long Beach State was 75 bucks a semester. I spent more on books than on tuition.
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@independentone Tuition at my alma mater literally quintupled since I’ve graduated, shit is off the rails.
@QuixoticSoul I hear it has at my kids school also, and they went to State Universities.
No, if people are allowed to scrub $××,××× of debt, Everyone should qualify, not just student debts.
I do indeed. In today's society, a high school education is no longer even remotely sufficient, largely because of the dumbing down of American culture coupled with an increasing demand for educated employees. This makes it impossible for the younger generation to get jobs beyond menial entry level nightmares, and ensures that they will be in debt for decades to come should they try to better themselves.
LadyBronte · 56-60, F
The ridiculous repayment system needs to be revamped - fairly - without the exorbitant, unfair interest structure, but no, I am not in favor of debt cancelation. Nothing is ever free. Someone, somewhere, always pays.
LadyBronte · 56-60, F
@NoGamesTolerated As tax payers, we'd all get a hefty slice of that pie.
@LadyBronte That’s a slice of pie I pray I never see… it’s rediculous!
@LadyBronte The rest of the world has figured out what an investment is.

That unfair system is a feature , not a bug so it will not change unless the loan sharks are made obsolete.
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
OggggO · 36-40, M
@LeopoldBloom Um, you see, well that is, oh look, commies! *points behind you and runs away*
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
@LeopoldBloom K thru 12 is mandatory indoctrination, kollage is extra bullschiff
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
HeidiA · 41-45, F
No. Because if they aren’t paying for they’re own education us tax payers will have to.
@HeidiA So you don’t think public education from K-12 should exist?
HeidiA · 41-45, F
@LeopoldBloom Nobody is talking about K12. This is about student loans.
BackyardShaman · 61-69, M
She did say further, I might not agree but she is respectful.@LeopoldBloom
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
The students were not under obligation to incur the debt so as adults they are obligated to repay said debt. There is no justification for taxpayers to pay those debts.
Northwest · M
Yes, but with some caveats:

1. Create provisions to pay the government back, interest free, when one's income level reaches a certain level.

2. Limit future student loans to no more than one 1-2 years of potential income, given the chosen field of study.

We can pretend that making them pay somehow, will solve the problem. But that's a pipe dream. It's best to accept reality, and stop pretending that it's left or right issue, it's not like a "right" government is going to solve the problem. You can't make people pay money they don't have.
Human1000 · 51-55, M
And the students who chose less expensive schools, and the parents who took out second mortgages, and the kids who fucked around for 4 years, or those who choose not to work, what about those with debt more than a few years back, and what about next year.

Forgiving debt freely incurred is absurdly unfair to those who decided not to do so, or for those who sacrificed so their kids would not have such debt.
Human1000 · 51-55, M
@QuixoticSoul Indeed. California reduced it's support for UC, and there are many reasons why costs have gone up up up. Cal State seems to have kept their costs lower.

I agree the middle class needs help, too. FAFSA is a joke. By all means let's lower eligibility for Pell grants and reform FAFSA.
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@Human1000 It’s not just California - pretty much every state dropped education funding and transferred costs to the students, this is a nationwide malaise, and it handicapped two whole generations with crippling debt before they could even start their careers.
Human1000 · 51-55, M
@QuixoticSoul A well known Michigan economist worked on this decades ago and they started increasing tuition for out of state students. As far as funding, yes, voters make choices. Let's increase funding!

Some students took out too much debt and can't keep up. But not everyone owes vast sums.

The average college debt among student loan borrowers in America is $32,731, according to the Federal Reserve. This is an increase of approximately 20% from 2015-2016. Most borrowers have between $25,000 and $50,000 outstanding in student loan debt. That's a big number if you make very little, but I was surprised it was that low. If we lower interest then this doesn't seem as crushing as its made out to be in the press.
fun4us2b · M
Yay! I was also thinking, let's extend it to mortgages also 🥳
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
@fun4us2b And car payments....
Slade · 56-60, M
Fuck that shit - I paid mine back. Now they can do the same
heavyone2 · 61-69, M
What schooling I was able to afford, I paid for out of my paycheck from my Day Job.... 18 to 20 hour days was tuff but I paid for it all and why should I pay for some of the bullshit we see today? Not happening.
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@MarineBob What the hell is that supposed to accomplish? Our schoolteachers, etc already can’t afford to pay off [i]their[/i] student loans.
MarineBob · 56-60, M
@QuixoticSoul What should the top salary be at a state college/university?
Public college debt, but not private school debt.
rfatoday · 61-69, M
I'd support a renegotiation of outstanding balances perhaps but not outright cancellation. Are we going to expect the underwriting financial institutions will forgive debt? Of course they won't. Someone will pay for what the graduating students don't and it's going to be the taxpayers.

The federal government should have never gotten into the loan guarantee business in the first place. All that did was allow colleges to jack tuition costs, knowing someone would pay for it. Back in the late 1970's a good friend of mine got his BSEE from Cal Poly working during the summers. No loans, no family help. Now? Now way.

I don't care what anyone tells you... especially these candy-man politicians wooing votes... there is no such thing as a free lunch. Someone, somewhere, has to ultimately pay the bill.
scorpiolovedeep · 46-50, M
I think younger generations should understand the value of money.

By cancelling them , it gives them an opportunity to be casual towards life and other responsibilities.

Even though I could afford to my son’s fees for his University program , I have told him to get loan from the Govt.

He will pay once he starts earning.
nedkelly · 61-69, M
NO, why should the tax-payers pay for everything
When I went to a state college in the 1980s it was like $500 a semester. Kids have it really hard compared to previous generations.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@JonLosAngeles66 Not really. They can just stay out of college and watch the fees drop. Supply and demand. So long as people are willing to pay the colleges will continue to charge. The charges are not set in stone and are not contingent on underlying costs.
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow the tuition is now $10.5k per year. That’s way out of range of the inflation rate
@JonLosAngeles66 And good luck trying to find work that will pay you enough to get through uni debt free with high school.
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
You mean I'm going to get back that $600,000 I paid for my daughters and my college eddukation?
@sunsporter1649 Why does it have to be all or nothing? We spend more on national defense than the next ten countries combined, but sniveling cowards like you think we're going to be invaded if we cut that by even a penny. And it's not just the police, we lock up a higher percentage of our population than any other country in the world, including places you approve of like North Korea. Then maybe we would have something left over for infrastructure like bridges and the power grid. You're the first one who will start crying when the local Walgreens is out of Depends because some bridge collapsed and the delivery didn't arrive on time.
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
@LeopoldBloom We spend more than russia and china and north korea! I did not know that, I was under the impression they were busy growing potatoes to make vodka, and rice to make sake. Such kind sweet gentle folks like those should be protected from the big bad American and their ideals of world conquest, eh?
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
Mktonght · 61-69, M
Hell no, it is nothing but a sad attempt to get more votes for democrats. The spending of money we don’t have will destroy this country.
@Mktonght absolutely
Yes - I support it only if the doctors and lawyers and other college grads support universal cancellation of their fees.
Considering how ridiculous the cost of living in general has become, especially education, I could definitely support that. The fact that most young people graduate from college with debts that keep them from being able to afford [b]homes[/b] would indicate a breakdown somewhere.
BackyardShaman · 61-69, M
Sure I’m good with it, let’s encourage that generation to succeed rather than make things impossible.
Nope one must carry through on a contract
Graylight · 51-55, F
@BiasForAction Unless that contract is amended and agreed upon. Predatory lending, too, invalidates the deal, and we're prosecuting that at higher rates than ever before.
@Graylight I’m pretty sure the vast majority of student loans for college are legitimate contractual arrangements but please do provide studies showing I’m wrong
Graylight · 51-55, F
@BiasForAction I'm sure they are, but while for-profit school account for 13% of learning institutions, they account for 33% of student debt. It's been demonstrated that, on average, 25% of for-profit payment goes toward actual educations.

Problem is, that last part is also true about most educational institutions these days. A recent headline from NYT: "Navient agrees to cancel 66,000 student borrowers’ loans to settle claims of predatory lending.
The student loan servicer agreed to cancel $1.7 billion in private student loan debts for nearly 66,000 borrowers and to pay $95 million in restitution."

And Navient is the main "above-board" lender. They'll be billing me until the day I die. A contract is a contract, true, but there are untenable terms that render a contract invalid and the greater question is, why aren't we providing our citizens with the one assured metric of success for the future?
Driver2 · M
No ,it’s a bad idea. In fact it’s destructive.
@Driver2 Don’t you know my friend, money grows on trees?!? 🙄
Driver2 · M
@NoGamesToleratedMay as well it’s worth less and less
@Driver2 will bottom out completely one day… I watch and wait every day. No kidding.
MarineBob · 56-60, M
Did they sign the loan papers?
MarineBob · 56-60, M
@NoGamesTolerated it's a shame they don't know to apply for scholarships any more
@MarineBob Pell grants by government are available to the ‘truly needy’ and pays tuition and books…. I can’t fathom how entitled these folks can be. They act like the world owes them something.
MarineBob · 56-60, M
@NoGamesTolerated hell, when he was 4 years old my grandson got his first scholarship from the VFW for drawing an American Flag. He enters every year yes they get harder every year.
Yes, and they should forgive mortgage debt also
nedkelly · 61-69, M
@independentone Yes another dreamer
i believe we need to catch up to the rest of the world and give free education to the college level . after that they should pay
as for the past . it is a problem when private loan company's get rich off the interest they charge. so yes to a extent. we do need to get rid of the student debt. like pulling a scab off a wound so it will heal. it will hurt at first then things will get better.
Virgo79 · 61-69, M
I wasn't expecting a break, so I didn't go.
heavyone2 · 61-69, M
Oh we have to help all the "woke-ers" thru life.They've been so abused.
acpguy · C
No. The cost of that debt falls back on taxpayers. I worked since I was 12 to save money for my college education, my wife and I have six kids four of them paid for their own college education by working all through high school and summers while in college and two went to vo-tech schools which they paid for themselves. All of them paid for their own cars and were all out of our house by 18 years of age. Today's pampered snowflakes need to pay their own way and their parents need to get that through little darlings heads at an early age. There are a lot of jobs out there that do not require a 4 year college education to make as much or more money than those that do get one. I graduated from college with a degree in education and never taught but worked jobs that paid more than teachers and then started my own business making over $150K per year.
Keepitsimple · 51-55, F
Why should they get a break?
Keepitsimple · 51-55, F
I know I was downvoted by some entitled brat, lol.

 
Post Comment