it will prevent people from shooting each other with LEGAL guns. People will still have guns illegally and there are too many guns in circulation to effectively "ban guns" in America. People will just murder each other with other means. Bombs, fire, stabbings etc and shootings with illegal guns. which is worse because there is no repercussion for the murders from the illegal gun shootings because the gun isn't registered to anyone.
[quote]it will prevent people from shooting each other with LEGAL guns[/quote]
False. I've never heard anyone yet call for a complete ban on guns, when speaking of gun control. Moreover, if assault rifles, specifically, are banned again (they were already banned before, but that ban had a 10 year sunset provision and expired), and a month later someone kills someone with an assault rifle, then that gun is no longer "LEGAL", it is one assault rifle that was not turned in or confiscated, and it is in the shooter's position illegally, which means your claim makes no sense.
The previous assault weapons ban [i]did[/i] bring down the rate of gun violence:
Moreover, look at any country with actual gun control. Gun control does not cause an instant spike in illegal gun deaths, or stabbings, mailings of envelopes full of anthrax spores, etc.
Anyone against gun control doesn't have any valid argument to oppose it, they just don't want to give up their own guns, because in the US, particularly among the right wing, guns are a [i]religion[/i]. That (cult)ure is unique to the US, and it's not something to be proud of.
@Axeroberts Mass shootings have exploded in prevalence since the assault weapons ban expired. It's not the only reason but I also don't think it's a coincidence given how frequently they're used.
@BlueGreenGrey Well stated. Particularly the "gun ban" bullshit. Because that's what it is. Bullshit. But what gets me is how blatantly ignorant that is but some, for whatever reason, lock in to it. There's been NO call for a ban of all guns. But you can't tell that to the fear-driven.
@Axeroberts 1) that's horse doo doo...hit the plus sign on the imagine and expand the table. You can easily see all of the firearms homicide data provided for each state.
2) all you did was provide a heat map of relative gun laws strength. It's missing firearm homicide data - [i]the most important part of the equation.[/i]
No one is saying California doesn't have a lot of gun laws...[b]it does![/b] The point is they aren't effective.
@TexChik I'd wager big money that our gun grabbing politicians hold a shit ton of firearm stocks in their portfolios. The mere utterance of an "assault weapons ban" sends the stock prices through the roof. No way they end up the gravy train.
Adequate and enforced gun control laws would certainly cut down on the number of people killed with guns, and likely cut down on the number who commit suicide with a firearm too.
during the 10 years of the assault rifle ban, the number of mass shootings, and the use of such weapons decreased, the sunsetting of it was associated with a massive increase in both.
@samueltyler2 There was 70 percent reduction in mass shootings during the 10-year ban. That there was a sunset provision was nonsensical. Have to assume the thinking was the results would speak for themselves. And they did. For thinking people. But the GOP and gun lobby turned those weapons in to the cornerstone of conservative values and "don't take muh guns." Horrific.
@Tastyfrzz if they have plans to have a mass shooting then they will have weapons of choice to use. I don't believe they will say I don't have a rifle so not going to do it.
@MarineBob So do a lot of stores and malls. Is that really going to stop a criminal? Of course not. It just makes people in there easy targets unfortunately.
@SandWitch Yes. I'm very familiar with who makes up my country. That comes from living here. Don't need reminders. It's interesting why you're arguing with me and yet repeating my point. The fact is that the right wing isn't representative of the U.S. and gun owners are in the minority. That's all I can tell you. I wish they weren't around but they are. But the majority of Americans don't roll with them.
@Ynotisay That third is really messing with things though. Trying to overturn an election. Giving national secrets to foreign adversaries for money. Taking children away from refugees... Too bad we can't set them all adrift on an ice shelf.
@Tastyfrzz I think the internet has a lot to do with it. Those screaming, whining and yelling the loudest have a disproportionate power over the 'conversation."
It’s a deeper problem than that. It starts with education from a young level not giving the quality of education needed, compounded by the work system we have not offering better opportunities, a society that’s almost apathetic to the real problems, and a political system the completely fails to act on the deeper problems. Add to that a medical system that has its hands tied to resolve mental problems to those who can’t afford it, and you are left with a society that has deep seeded frustrations that are taken out in extreme ways. Solve those and gun control measures wound be almost unneeded.
@Axeroberts Hence my short list of problems. It’s by no means a comprehensive list, and certainly oversimplifies the issues, but I think those are the biggest hurtles to overcome in terms of making a better society as a whole.
Most certainly. Even red flag laws would cut down on deaths and mass shootings. There will always be mentally ill people in the world. They will always find a way to kill people. But we can stop them from killing so many innocent people just living their lives.
Being able to defend my life saves a life. A study conducted by cdc under obama discovered a person with a gun prevented a crime between one half million and 3 millions times per year
Sure. But gun control is a broad term. Like anything else it would come down to policy. But the US also desperately needs to do something to combat the toxic right wing gun culture.
@MrBrownstone Idk, maybe because we've never heard about a toddler accidentally killing their parent or a sibling with a knife because he or she found it lying on a nightstand? I imagine it's far easier and impersonal to shoot at someone with a gun than stabbing them with a knife or strangling them.
they keep passing laws - I think it all started after Lee Harvey Oswald used a mail order rifle to kill JFK
hasn't stopped people from getting a hold of firearms and doing bad things with them
the US culture won't allow for confiscation and destruction.
so the best we can can do it put violent criminals in overcrowded prisons - only to be released early because nobody wants to put new prisons in their back yard.
@Pretzel If 'they' is the federal government they haven't passed gun laws in about 30 years. Some states have. The only real national legislation, that came in the form of an executive order which is different than a law, is Biden's move last year to expand background checks. But it still isn't universal background checks. We can't even do that even though most Americans support it.
@Pretzel But the government absolutely can help to stop people from doing things. Do drunk driving laws work 100 percent of the time? Of course not. Does that mean they shouldn't be in place?
We have laws against hand grenades. Can people get hand grenades? Or would like to have grenades? Sure. But you don't see a lot of hand grenades around.
My state of California has pretty strict gun laws. And the gun death rate is about 43% lower than the rest of the country. Cause and effect. Looser gun laws means more gun deaths. That's irrefutable.
Now maybe you've run across legislators demanding an end to firearms in the U.S.. But I sure haven't heard it. From anyone. Banning guns isn't, or has ever been, on the table. So bringing it up, as some do with the "slippery slope" fear angle, is ludicrous and doesn't hold weight. That's not what the real debate is about.
Two guys shot dead in NYC within the last 24 hours. No one in political DC gave a fuck! How many other individuals throughout this country in the last 24 hours were shot and killed? Where’s the outcry for gun control that does not include a mass killing?. Why? Those lives different?
Yes, if the NRA and the gun nuts weren’t trying to circumvent it. It does work in every other developed country where the citizens [b]want[/b] it to work.
@bijouxbroussard These are not easily fixed problems we are facing. Greater minds than mine have pondered this problem for many years with little result. I don't have the answer but I am sure that taking away all of the people's firearms will be devastating for the honest citizens. They will not have any way to protect themselves from the massive roaming criminal elements' that will surely prey upon the innocent peoples.
@Nitedoc But It doesn’t have to be all or nothing ! Some weapons aren’t appropriate for non-military use. They shouldn’t be available to civilians. And people who hoard weapons should be looked at. Otherwise, there’s still a lot a room for sane, legal gun ownership.
Some Americans go deaf when the subject of "gun control" is even introduced, and only hear "taking away [b]all[/b] of the people’s firearms" which isn’t practical here. The only folks who need to lose their weapons are the [b]criminals[/b] you mentioned. And we need to be a bit more careful about who can buy weapons going forward.
@bijouxbroussard I fully agree with most of what you said. We had better make some kind of positive changes because there is no doubt the gun violence is getting much worse. I'm all for more and better screening of gun buyers. This part of the equation is hardly addressed by our current gun laws and is very much lacking. I'm certainly willing to make reasonable compromises to the present firearm requirements for ownership. The main problem with banning some guns, like "military style" firearms where will it stop? The AR-15 for example is not a military firearm. It looks like one and can use high-capacity magazines but that is it. But it's still just a semi-automatic rifle like a whole lot of common hunting and sport rifles. Magazines can be changed out in 2-3 seconds with a little practice so eliminating those magazine will just slow someone down a little, but not much. High capacity magazines were banned for 10 years by former president Bill Clinton. The various federal agencies, like the FBI, ATF, monitored the crime incidences very closely during this ban. They concluded that this ban did nothing to reduce gun crimes in any way. The ban was then overturned because it had no effect on gun crimes.
@Default1873 You really need to try harder with that one dude. It's bullshit repeated by parrots.
A request though. If you could shoot over the names of the legislators calling for a ban on firearms I'd appreciate it. You must have those names given your statement. I'll keep an eye open.
@BlueGreenGrey That shooting had a lot to do with the authorities not doing their job. From the military counselors to the local cops who were "trying" to find him before the shooting. That tragedy could have been easily avoided if everyone involved didn't drop the ball.
