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How significant is the recent escalation between NATO and Russia?

NATO is now allowing the use of American and British missiles in Russian territory. In September, Joe Biden and British Prime Minister Keir Starmer decided, after discussions, not to allow this. We can assume the reason is wanting to avoid escalation. Putin issued a very clear warning and they appeared to listen.

What has changed since then? It has only been two months. Russia continues to do well, which is not a change as Russian military has been doing well for over a year. Why is Biden, before he leaves office, allowing Ukraine to use these missiles? He knows what the potential consequences are. Starmer also knows what the consequences are. The deep state know the consequences. This can only be a way to try to sabotage Trump's presidency.

Do you think this escalation is significant? What do you think will happen?
justanothername · 51-55, M
It’s next to impossible to explain the concept of NATO to an isolationist loving MAGA supporter because the idea of helping another country that is under attack from a much bigger country goes against what it means to be an “isolationist”.

Putin will continue to threaten but as he has done for the last 3 years, very little will actually happen although all the MAGA isolationists will continue to get their panties in a knot but they wont actually do anything else because they are too self serving to be any use to anyone one.

If something does happen I would hope that the members of NATO function as one and send Pootin packing.
justanothername · 51-55, M
@hippyjoe1955 Russian propaganda. Already discredited.
justanothername · 51-55, M
@Katiatavrovich I don’t have an issue with freedom of speech. I have an issue with hate speech online and freedom from invasion by an aggressive country aka Russia entering Ukraine.
Confined · 56-60, M
@justanothername Nato is not our friend. They want a one world government. They were in charge of the communist take over during the pandemic. They made a very serious atremp to End All Democracy and install a communist one world govt.
We have a constitutional republic in the USA and NATO is 100% opposed to our constitution.
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
putin escalates regardless, and he can yap away as much as he wants, he longer has any credibility. Nobody cares what he says about anything.

russia is not doing well anywhere. They advance by a few fields which cost them thousands of dead, and then they are driven back a few days later. For over 1,000 days the barbarians have been stymied... and the Ukrainians now own Kursk 😂

What's putin going to do? He had to beg North Korea for troops because nobody wants to go and die in Ukraine just so putin can build another luxury villa. His munitions are rubbish from Iran and North Korea, the russian economy is in the toilet, and russian society has had more than enough of watching what used to be russia's future bleeding to death into Ukrainian soil.

But it's not a problem because trump says he will end the war in a single day, and he always does what he promises, right?

Right?

Nobody cares about trump's braggadocio and lies and buffoonery... he's not a player in any of this. He hasn't yet worked out that if you can't tell who the patsy is... it's you (his supporters have the same problem)

Day 1,002

🇳🇿 🇺🇦 🇳🇿

Слава Україні!

Героям слава!
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@carpediem
there were no wars

There were several wars... trump simply didn't start them, and nor did he end them. He was, in fact, ineffectual.
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Tastyfrzz · 61-69, M
The Russian interest rate according to monetary economists is now infinity. The Ruble has pushed past the one penny resistance and will now continue to decline into obscurity. This they say is the equivalent to the fall of the Roman empire. But a lot faster.

With soaring logistical and admin costs and no precious metals left to plunder from enemies, the Romans levied more and more taxes against the people to sustain the Empire.

Hyperinflation, soaring taxes, and worthless money created a trifecta that dissolved much of Rome’s trade.
The economy was paralyzed.

By the end of the 3rd century, any trade that was left was mostly local, using inefficient barter methods instead of any meaningful medium of exchange. (In Russia they are now using potatoes and oranges.).

During the crisis of the 3rd century (235-284 A.D), there may have been more than 50 emperors of Rome. Most of these were murdered, assassinated, or killed in battle.

The empire was in a free-for-all, and it split into three separate states.

Constant civil wars meant the Empire’s borders were vulnerable. Trade networks were disintegrated and such activities became too dangerous.

Barbarian invasions came in from every direction. Plague was rampant.

And so the Western Roman Empire would cease to exist by 476 A.D.

Russia; it is estimated, will fall much faster. Likely in the next couple of months.
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@Tastyfrzz An insightful analysis... thank you 👏🏻
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@i197818202223i In fact no where in my entire post did I say Ukraine was "finished". Your entire response to my post is based on something I didn't even say. Learn to read..............then post.
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GeistInTheMachine · 31-35, M
@i197818202223i These people cannot even read properly. They are a waste of time.
The military industrial complex, central banks, and globalists all know the gravy train of US tax $$$ comes to an end when Trump takes office. The missile attacks represent a desperate attempt on their part to get Russia to escalate the conflict with a retaliatory response, hoping to inflame the public into accepting a global war. Handing the Trump administration WWIII also distracts from the immigration and prosecutory issues DC is facing. The good news is that Putin isn't stupid. He knows exactly what the globalists are trying to do.
carpediem · 61-69, M
@BizSuitStacy I agree wholeheartedly with your analysis
Dolimyte · 41-45, M
What's the deep state?
wildbill83 · 41-45, M
@Dolimyte NATO, UN, WEF, ICC, WHO, etc.

basically a bunch of nihilists and war profiteers
Dolimyte · 41-45, M
@wildbill83 That's incongruous with the definition @i197818202223i gave.
i197818202223i · 22-25, F
@Dolimyte I said: “War is a good example; it helps the rich get richer.”
trollslayer · 46-50, M
Deep state?

You arent worth responding to.
@trollslayer Back then it wasn't something most congress did.
Nighttalker · 56-60, M
@trollslayer so, who do you think is actually in charge now? Do you think Biden is running the show??
trollslayer · 46-50, M
@Nighttalker read the last paragraph of my post.
Strictgram · 70-79, C
Trump will put an end to the war in 2 months max. Putin just wants a face saving way out.
@i197818202223i Oh trust me I know. The ukrainian people don't care about the war. Zelensky and Putin do. And some Russians, depending on who you ask. There's nothing here worth dying for to them and understandably so.

I was just thrown off when you said Ukraine needs to give up. It sounded like you meant just let Russia kill and r*** as they please.
wildbill83 · 41-45, M
@i197818202223i not to mention that NATO wouldn't last in a direct confrontation. Russia is fighting a war of attrition, the west doesn't have the stomach for it; our leaders are so worried about their political careers & re-elections that they can't hold out very long civil unrest/anti war protests & decreasing moral, even when fighting a just war (Didn't take them long to turn on Israel, which is simply defending itself; so they capitulated to a fringe group of palestinians whining in the streets...)

So basically, it's either swallow their pride and concede now; or fight a drawn out war that they can't win/have no intention of winning, only to concede later

which is basically what democrats did to us with Afghanistan, 20 years of killing terrorists only for biden to come along with his disastrous pullout, leaving the taliban in a better position than when we started... all that time, money, and lives wasted for nothing...
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meJess · F
First ICBM launch today, and the movement of Frontier missiles. A bitter old man who has to leave his house at the end of the year has just upped the ante.
Gibbon · 70-79, M
Biden wants to make things as worse as he can before Trump takes office. He doesn't give a damn about the situation he puts the US in.
i197818202223i · 22-25, F
@newjaninev2 Russians live in Ukraine and have for more than a thousand years. If it had not been for the revolution in 2014, the second revolution in Ukraine instigated by US, Russian military would not have entered Ukraine. NATO has been hostile to Russia and US is seeking to weaken Russia. It does not want an independent Russia, and has no care for Ukraine. All US wants from Ukraine is to use it to weaken Russia, to exploit its resources and use it as another satellite.

No consequences are coming for Russia. The world is more concerned about Israel and the arrest warrant for Netanyahu. Ukraine is losing the war, as you have been told numerous times in this post. Trump is very likely to end military aid to Ukraine, but if he does not, Ukraine will still lose. Did you read the articles I linked you? These are western media outlets telling us that Ukraine is losing. It is running out of men. They have been encircled in Kursk and are getting pushed out. Russia has gained more territory. The numbers say it all. What dreamland are you living in?
ImNotHungry · 36-40, M
@newjaninev2
News for russia - consequences are coming.
nice wet dream
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@i197818202223i
Russians live in Ukraine and have for more than a thousand years

Chinese live in russia and have done for much more than 1,000 years. I rather feel they're thinking of reminding you about that 😀

After ten years of lies, theft, rape, and murder, russia is infesting 18% of Ukraine's territory.

730,000 dead orcs, and russia's economy circling the drain.

Consequences are coming.
Confined · 56-60, M
https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/joe-biden-peace-talks/2024/11/19/id/1188737/

Ric Grenell to Newsmax: No Talks of Peace From Biden, More War
Since the Russia-Ukraine war began in February 2022, the Biden administration has continually ratcheted up tensions in the conflict while at the same time seeking no solution for an off-ramp, former acting director of national intelligence Ric Grenell told Newsmax on Tuesday.

Grenell told "Finnerty" that at the G20 conference, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan "came forward with a peace plan."

"And, you know, you have [Ukrainian President Volodymyr] Zelenskyy saying that he would like to see a diplomatic solution in 2025. People are calling for a diplomatic solution.
And yet [President] Joe Biden is fanning the flames with more money and more missiles. We don't have anyone talking about a peace plan," he said.

"We have too many U.S. officials talking about more war and more funding for war. And I'm really concerned about it."
Oceanfire · 41-45, M
It doesn't make much sense except like you said to sabotage Trump. Doesn't make much sense militarily either as Russia could give them an almighty ass whopping with their airforce in response if they so wished. And the West wouldn't intervene.
@Oceanfire Actually, Russia recently stepped up their missile attacks on Ukraine. Biden gave Ukraine a way to incentivize Russia to back off on those attacks.

Russia launches massive missile and drone attack at Ukraine's infrastructure
Nov 17, 2024

Russia steps up missile attacks on Ukraine
CBS News Videos
Tue, Sept 3, 2024
To me it seems like the final desperate act of those who know their time is almost up. I am of course referring to those who really control the US government, so not Joe Biden, who is just their spokesman when he's even coherent enough to perform that simple task on a good day.
As for this observation of yours:
Russia continues to do well, which is not a change as Russian military has been doing well for over a year.
one must ask the question if why they're doing so well, it's taking such a long, long time to achieve their objectives, whatever those objectives may be. Originally, when the invasion began, one of those objectives was the seizure of the capital, Kiev. That failed disastrously when, due to the sheer incompetence of those running the show, all they ended up with was the world's worst traffic jam.
Then the objectives "changed" (apparently). Now it was no longer about taking over Ukraine and kicking out Zelensky, but "hunting Nazis", of which there were none to begin with, but let's not allow simple and obvious facts get in the way of a good story.
Look, the simple truth is that neither side is winning; it's a stalemate, and has been from the beginning of this stupid and pointless war. It's the trenches of World War One, rather than the blitzkrieg of World War Two, which is what everyone was expecting when it began.
ImNotHungry · 36-40, M
@Bel6EQUJ5
one of those objectives was the seizure of the capital, Kiev.

According to who?
ImNotHungry · 36-40, M
@Bel6EQUJ5
Then the objectives "changed" (apparently). Now it was no longer about taking over Ukraine and kicking out Zelensky, but "hunting Nazis", of which there were none to begin with,
I mean it's very convenient for western media to deny the Nazi problem whenever it's convenient but at one point the US didn't want to provide weapons to Ukraine BECAUSE it had a Nazi problem.

Look, the simple truth is that neither side is winning;


I suppose some western outlets can try to hide it as much as possible, but some things you cannot hide. Ukraine is constantly in need of more munitions and more manpower constantly losing more land and incapable of mounting an effective counter offensive. No stalemate here. Just a war of attrition.
i197818202223i · 22-25, F
@Bel6EQUJ5 If you don't know what the objectives of Russia are, how can you say it is taking a long time to fulfill them? Ukraine is aided by US, UK, France, Germany, Poland, and others. The assistance it receives from US and UK in particular is why it is still in this war. You may think Russia is struggling, but has Ukraine sent Russian troops away? Have Russian troops gained territory in Ukraine this past year? Which one has the larger army?

Russia backed down from Kiev because they were willing to negotiate. The US and the UK were not, so Ukraine was not. Ukraine has to do what its masters tell it to do.

World War II was only a blitzkrieg at the start. It was a long and arduous war after 1942. It was very tough for Germany, and they were decimated by the end. Tens of millions across the world were killed. All wars are brutal. For Ukraine, the numbers were never in their favor. Russia has more of everything. Putin turned the economy into a war economy. Russia is putting everything into this war and it cannot lose. It isn't possible. It will not happen.
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
Putin used his nuclear capability to attempt to draw a red line. NATO called his bluff and precisely nothing has happened. A tactical and diplomatic success. This is what healthy democratic states do, rather than appeasing autocrats.

Don't be so parochial. NATO has far bigger fish to fry. Trump will sabotage his own presidency without any outside help 🙂
ImNotHungry · 36-40, M
@SunshineGirl
am rather more concerned about my relatives in neighbouring Poland.


If he had followed up on earlier threats that missile should have landed in Poland.

🤦‍♂
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@i197818202223i They really do not . . it is just a certain breed of American conservative that insists on labelling any ideas vaguely progressive and positive as "communist". As for "elite", yes I do have a college degree 🙄
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specman · 51-55, M
Well most NATO members are supposedly against a Trump presidency, I think they are trying to give Ukraine all the support to get ahead before Trump takes over
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@ImNotHungry The russian terrorists threaten NATO member states most days... nobody cares.

It's just more blah blah blah from the land of Potemkin
ImNotHungry · 36-40, M
@newjaninev2 Sure sure
i197818202223i · 22-25, F
@newjaninev2 “Nobody cares what russia says or thinks about anything, and the Poles simply continue building the base”

If this were true, Biden would not have taken over a year to allow the use of long range missiles inside Russia. Zelenskyy acknowledged in March this year that he does not rule out Putin using nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons have been used twice (Hiroshima, Nagasaki) and their existence means they can be used again. The likelihood is high.

I have to ask: why do you refuse to capitalize Putin and Russia? It makes you look like a clown, a hateful and demented witch clown.
ImNotHungry · 36-40, M
It is significant. It remains to be seen if Russia will respond in a manner NATO clearly wants it to so as to throw a spanner in the wheels of Trump's plan. It remains to be seen if Trump himself will hold true to his word.
ImNotHungry · 36-40, M
@newjaninev2
"Please point out where I said that"

Nah.. I'm not prepared to sift through the nonsense you've spewed on different posts and threads. Just make a denial and we can leave it at that. It's good you understand the capabilities of Russia.🫡

do you want russia's war against the sovereign democracy of Ukraine to end?
What difference does it make? Ukrainians want an end to the war. But you claimed nobody wants to fight for Putin. Turns out no one wants to fight for Zelenskyy to continue to amass billions while Ukrainians die either. 🤷‍♂



I'm sure most everyone would definitely want russia's war against the sovereign democracy of Ukraine to end...

You are being deliberately obtuse because the claim wasn't that they seek an end by military means. In fact if you read, Ukrainians want a NEGOTIATED end to the conflict rather than fight. Also, apparently they support territorial concessions.😂But WHY , Ukraine according to you is WINNING BIGLY. Why not simply finish the job? Maybe they need YOU to motivate them?

Bell Victoria Nuland to bake them more delicious cookies. That oughta do it 😛
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@ImNotHungry
Just make a denial

No need to do that... it's your claim, so the onus is on you to back it up. Please point out where I said that

you claimed nobody wants to fight for Pu
tin

Please point out where I said that

seek an end by military means

Please point out where I said that

according to you is WINNING BIGLY

Please point out where I said that

___________________________

52% of 52% is 27%, leaving 73% saying that russia's land grab won't be accepted


ImNotHungry · 36-40, M
@newjaninev2

Please point out where I said that

seek an end by military means

Please point out where I said that

according to you is WINNING BIGLY

Please point out where I said that
Clearly you have run out of arguments if this is all you have been reduced to but I will take this nonsense as a concession.


@newjaninev2
52% of 52%
I'm not certain what point you are trying to make here. So a majority of a majority is somehow inconsequential. Nothing to see here mate. 🤦‍♂

The point is the majority of those that seek a negotiated end are prepared to concede land... Yeah thats why it's NOTED*. Or do you think those opposed to ending the war should also be surveyed on land concessions? 👀🤔

"leaving 73% saying that russia's land grab won't be accepted"

That's cute you think they have a choice in the matter.

Don't try too hard.

Awww! It's a nice dream though.🤣
ATripToNowhere · 46-50, M
Let us hope Putin wins against the whole collective West. They are evil people who don't understand a thing.
tindrummer · M
@ATripToNowhere When's the last time any of them invaded a neighbor unprovoked?
wildbill83 · 41-45, M
@ATripToNowhere or we could just ditch nato and ally with Russia; talk about sending Europe into a panic... 🤣
Picklebobble2 · 56-60, M
Because America is a warmongering nation.
Always has been.

In your lifetime, count how many conflicts America has either sold arms to or has assisted one side over another.

Whether it be Korea during the 50's. Vietnam during the 60's. Cambodia during the 70's. Iran during the 80's. Iraq during the 90's. Kuwait; Afghanistan; Yemen; Syria....

Making money and temporary friends to pursue their own political and economic goals for the era.

The current stuff between America and Russia is just two increasingly irrelevant 'superpowers'.
With no common enemy to unite behind, how do you think either country justifies it's massive arms spending ?
Where do you suppose all that money from 'necessary arms creation
including r n d' comes from ?

Unwinnable wars are a staple of keeping the poorest employed and ensuring there's always a ready supply of new recruits happy to be paid.
And if they survive, they can always retire, gain the kudos of being able to call themselves veterans.
That too has a certain kudos even in civilian life.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
It is extremely serious and outright dangerous. So very sad that the US money interests decided they needed to own Ukraine.
PeterF15 · 13-15, M
I hope Russia wont use nuclear missiles. They are gainining positions in Africa and USA wont be able to finance ukraine for long. So its not in anybody interest to escalate this conflict maybe except ukrainian leaders.....
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@PeterF15 If russia broke the nuclear seal, even in the slightest, it would immediately feel the world's condemnation... China would abandon even the current pretence of friendship. Even the dishonourable opportunists such as India, Brazil, and South Africa, would walk away.

All the escalation in russia's war against Ukraine has been done by russia. All of it. In fact, every time that the West has eased off its assistance have been the times that russia escalates. Whenever the West increases aid and support, russia backs away... typical behaviour for cowards.
PeterF15 · 13-15, M
@newjaninev2 Well you are probably right about the condemnation but i think if russia uses nuclear strategic bombs in ukraine USA would not venture to start nuclear war...but in my opinion Russia does not need to use them now, they have little higher ground
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newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@jshm2 Would you be interested in making a few investments in russia? 😂
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I don't presume to know.. we could be on the verge of world war.. or there may be a forced 7 year peace treaty that won't last more than 3.5 years.. I love Russia and i disapprove of Putin and his engagements in current wars.. i have no idea what Nato even is.. my main focus is on Israel and Jewish safety so tho i have sympathy for Ukraine and also North Koreans being forced into this war i also feel sorry for the Russians being forced to fight them .. i think Putin should be removed.. he's basically a serial killer of his political rivals .. a crim
i197818202223i · 22-25, F
@SStarfish “my main focus is on Israel and Jewish safety”

Why?
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@SStarfish Don't look now but many many Jews don't like Israel and call it artificial. The two things are not synonymous. Bibi is not even a Jew.
Confined · 56-60, M
We are possibly hours away from full scale Nuclear war. This needs to stop.
carpediem · 61-69, M
@Confined We could be headed for a nuclear exchange, but not full scale nuclear war. I know it’s a fine line. I think Putin is more interested in peace than Biden and Ukraine. He knows Trump is coming and there will be blowback.

Biden, actually whoever is running government, is screwing things up terribly.
Confined · 56-60, M
@carpediem Yup sick twisted people keep adding fuel to the fire.
Confined · 56-60, M
Sen. Mike Rounds, R-S.D., mocked on Friday the notion of Russian President Vladimir Putin reaching a peace deal for the war in Ukraine.

"As much as I would like to believe we can negotiate with a tyrant, I suspect we may be deceiving ourselves," Rounds said at the Halifax Security Forum, according to Newsweek.
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PeterF15 · 13-15, M
Russia used hypersonic missile to warn the West i would say but question is if Ukraine will continue to attack russian territory with western missiles...
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@PeterF15 all missiles are hypersonic - russia tried using that word as a scarecrow more than a year ago. Turned out the Ukrainians simply shot down the 'unstoppable hypersonic missiles' and still do.

The barbarians recently used a medium-range ballistic missile (of which they have very few) with conventional warheads. Again, a scarecrow that scared nobody.

Russia is desperate, especially as nukes are off the table. Their military is a joke, their economy is crashing, and whatever future they might have had died in Ukraine, causing a demographic catastrophe that will reverse rate for a century or more.

They get off every square centimetre of Ukraine's soil, or they perish.

I don't mind which they choose.
Allelse · 36-40, M
Eh. Unlikely of anything too drastic but you never know, maybe the world needs another worle war, help get rid of the bad blood.
Wireman · 31-35, M
Just another plan to cause havoc and then blame the current leader. And most of them will still cling to the old world "enemy".
Good post Comrade. Where in Russia do you live?
Tastyfrzz · 61-69, M
Well if Russia nukes Miami I'm down with it.
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GeistInTheMachine · 31-35, M
@i197818202223i That's the great irony of modernity. So much knowledge and potential at our fingertips, yet so much wasted potential. Hahaha.
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i197818202223i · 22-25, F
@SinlessOnslaught You are very kind! I appreciate all you have said here. Unlike some other people, you understand this is a real war where people die. The Ukrainians are dying needlessly. America needs to stop its interference in other countries and leave the rest of the world alone.
@i197818202223i We can help the Ukrainians but not like this. We just caused more tragedy.
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JimboSaturn · 51-55, M
@dale74 Crazy followers?

dale74 · M
@JimboSaturn we could go back and forth all day and I still wouldn't have gotten out of the ones he's appointed the cabinet positions trust me y'all take the cake and have way more than conservatives Republicans ever thought about having for crazy whack jobs supporting the candidate heck half your people don't even know whether they're male or female
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@Diotrephes Old wet paper towels never killed all the men, r***ed all the women and children, and exhibited nuclear capability. I don't see the resemblance.

 
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