Creation versus Evolution. Why evolution is not sufficient to prove Bible wrong? Bible is the...

1) we do not agree that Adam and Eve were the first humans. Adam was a golem, Eve was a transgender clone if you accept the Bible as fact. Askr and Embla were the first humans if you prefer Norse mythology as I do.
Human evolved over time, and as a population, not as one couple . There was no garden of Eden, Adam and Eve, did not eat from the tree of knowledge and there never was a fall. There was no sin. Which means that there is no need for redemption or a savior. Which means Jesus didn’t change anything, he was a mortal, he died , he isn’t coming back. Etc. Etc. The entire religion is unraveled , but it was just a fairytale to begin with.
2) Evolution is a theory which how life diversified over millions of years in to what we see today. It is an explanation made from observations, confirmed studies and facts.it has nothing to do with religion. It just is. It works, and there are no arguments with it.
Apologists bring it up, because they’re afraid education will take the place of faith.
It is not Evolution that has a problem with Christianity, it’s Christianity that has a problem with the real world.

Horsefrost · 46-50, M

i would like to add a true story.

Issac Newton, the famous mathematician often used to tell his friends about the Lord to which he friends won't agree.
One day, Newton invited them for supper over his place. They arrived at his home and Newton requested them to sit while he was preparing the supper. Being bored, they went from one room to the other.

They saw a whole solar system replica in his room. When Newton came there, his friends asked who made that beautiful system there. To which Newton replied, "I don't know, It must have been there by chance"

To which his friends laughed and asked why was he playing trick on tgem. To this, Newton replied, "if this small replica of solar system must have a creator, how such magnificent, splendid solar system and Universe have no creator?"
His friends looked at him in a very understandable way.
Maybe we can understand what he wanted to convey.

canusernamebemyusername · M

Natural selection is the driving force of evolution. 100 years ago Christians never even argued that evolution occurred. The world was a lot more agrarian then and any normal farmer or gardener could tell you that hybrids happened and traits could be selected for. The debate was on what did the selecting in nature where there was no farmer or gardener selecting the traits. Up until then many religious people said God selected the traits.
What made Darwin different is he showed that nature is self organizing and will select its own traits to enhance that covey various benefits for a species in a certain environment.
This naturally upset Christians and they have spent the last hundred years not only fighting against natural selection as the driver but abandoned the idea of evolution altogether and thus do not even know what they are arguing now.
Denying that nature is self organizing in favor of God coming it is the same as saying chemical reactions don't occur naturally but it is God making them react that way.
My question is why would an all powerful all knowing God create a universe that can't function on its on but has to constantly be fixed and repaired or it will just fall apart. Doesn't seem that impressive to me. Making the universe a perpetual motion machine that is self sustaining though is impressive.

EuphoricTurtle · 41-45, M

You should take your own advice...

We, Christians believe that God created the earth and the universe. Estimated age of earth is ~6000 years old (...) Often people get carried away by some evidence and come to a conclusion. Evidence should be complemented by logical reasoning.

Especially when the only thing supporting that the earth is around 6,000 years old is a book written thousands of years ago.

ozgirl512 · 31-35, F

So many things incorrect in what you say... The first two lines were enough.,

wildbill83 · 41-45, M

the great irony; evolutionists reject creation on the basis that isn't "scientific", then propose a theory that completely ignores scientific method.

In other words, their "scientific" explanation isn't based on fact, it's based on belief/faith...

DeluxedEdition · 26-30, F

people are too simpleminded to accept that we were created with the intention to evolve. There is no versus

BlueSkyKing · M

You can have either belief or truth, not both.

Truth does not ask to be believed. It asks to be tested. Scientists do not join hands every Saturday or Sunday and sing, “Yes, gravity is real! I know gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up must come down, down, down. Amen!” If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about the concept.

Faith is actually agnosticism. Faith is what you use when you don’t have knowledge. When someone says, “The meeting is at 7:30, I believe,” they are expressing some doubt. When you tack “I believe” onto a comment, does that make it stronger?

If faith is valid, then anything goes. Muslims believe in Allah by faith, so they must be right. The Hindus are right. The Greeks and Romans were right. More people claim to have seen or been healed by Elvis Presley than ever claimed to have seen the resurrected Jesus. With faith, everybody is right. Suppose an atheist, refusing to look at any religious claims, were to say, “You must have faith that there is no God. If you believe in your heart that nothing transcends nature and that humanity is the highest judge of morality, then you will know that atheism is true. That will make you a better person.” Wouldn’t the Christians snicker?

jackieash

All the people looking into evolution are not trying to prove the bible wrong; they are delving further into how evolution works and its effects.

DocSavage · M

Not true. God’s existence is based on an unanswerable problem. How did we get here.
God’s importance is another matter however.
Suppose, a magical Genie blinked it’s eyes, and popped our universe into existence.
Both god and Genies have this power reportedly. And as far as creation goes, one is as good as the other. Afterwards, the Genie returns to wherever it came from, with no though or care about us. What then ?
God is only valuable to you for what you hope to get from him. A pleasant afterlife.
An all powerful being to make the impossible possible, gives you a reason for being here. But if it’s no longer here, your just worshipping an illusion, a make believe god, who will care for you when you go into the next unknowable.
Food for thought.

LadyGrace ·

I think we can resolve the "humans coming from chimpanzees" right now. God created man, in His image. Not from animals. God created people to reflect His image, to rule over creation, and to reproduce godly offspring. But man messed that up when he chose to sin.

DIABLISS

I wish i was around to get in on this argument when it started. Man invented God to give reasons for and to blame for everything in this life. Everything in this life is screwed up because of man.
The first people could not have been named Adam and Eve simply because those names are Anglo-Saxen and that didn't exist yet. And when Cain left his parents, he went to the next town and got married.
When the Bible was written...the addicts that wrote it were going into caves and getting high from the natural gases and "getting closer to God".
The Bible was considered dangerous and nonsense so it was hidden away.
Some King wanted to learn to control people better so he had it brought out into the public eye and claimed it was true.
Later, some English speaking nut job was hired to translate it into English and he made such a mess out of it that he was imprisoned and killed...but they still decided to use it even though it is a ridiculous and ludicrous mess.
Everything on this planet is here by nature and what kind of whacko would invent this screwed up world anyway.?

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F

The second funniest part of this post is the underlying Bifurcation Fallacy... the assumption that there are only two possibilities... and the funniest part is the assumption that creationism is in some way an equal contender as an explanation of the evidence we see.

It isn't

QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M

This is confused as hell starting from its very premise. It’s not actually necessary to prove all the really outlandish stuff in the Bible wrong. The Bible is not some default. Supporters of biblical “evidence” need to make an argument that the Bible is accurate, not the other way around.

DocSavage · M

@wildbill83 @wildbill83
Faith does not require evidence? Then what good is it ? Are you aware of what you are saying ? Don’t you see how hypocritical and ridiculous that belief is ?
You continue to insist there is no reliable evidence for evolution. That is not true. You clearly do not understand it if you believe such a thing. To pursue that discussion is pointless, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Faith is worthless without something to justify it. If you believe in god, then you have faith that he’ll live up to his promises. Something must have convinced you.
Faith healers and con men get rich off people like you.

KYLakeDiver · 51-55, M

Evolution has nothing to do with the debate. This whole discussion boils down to this, either:

1 Someone much more advanced existed before the universe and used or developed bioengineering to construct living organisms.

Or

2 Only matter existed before the universe and nothing developed life. It happened on its own.

As humans we should understand how easy it is for us to develope things that are less complex than ourselves. But, as humans it seems impossible for some to accept the possibility that anything is greater than we are. Saying "prove it" does not diminish the possibility.

LadyGrace ·

Even more proof. https://similarworlds.com/spirituality/god-creator/4355778-The-Nephilim-Human-or-Angelic-Hybrids

Sharon · F

But it is illogical to conclude something or question Bible without asking sufficient questions.

It is illogical to accept the bible as proven fact without question. Especially as much of it has been proven wrong.

Everyone agree that Adam and Eve were the first humans created by God.

Actually the majority of the world does not agree.

Remember Bible is nothing but the word of God.

Where's the evidence to support that claim? Wouldn't you agree it's illogical to conclude something without asking sufficient questions?

zonavar68 · 56-60, M

The Bible isn't sufficient evidence to prove creation theory either. The bible is just a book comprising a series of historical accounts written by (allegedly) humans like us. It has no scientific merit as a proof of anything.

LadyGrace ·

Here's a thought. If man came from apes, why can't apes talk like people, by now? 😂😂😂 How is it humans were smart enough to learn and know how to talk but not apes or chimpanzees? 😂

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zonavar68 · 56-60, M

Bible is a collection of historical accounts - nothing to do with G.O.D. It cannot be verified as fact.

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F

Creation versus evolution? There’s no such contest.

The Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection is a complete, consistent, and coherent, scientific Theory based on demonstrable evidence.

Creationism says that gods did everything in the universe. Absolutely everything. Break a fingernail? God did it. Meteorite hit your car? God did it. Did you sneeze this morning? God did it. Absolutely pointless, absolutely useless, and in no way an alternative to anything, because it’s an alternative to everything.

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F

it may need a force to drive it

I have already explained to you that evolution is the process and Natural Selection is the mechanism

Postulations about magical entities are unnecessary and explain nothing (not even the magical entity)

Katabasis · 46-50, M

We do you need to disprove it? Why is it unacceptable for two groups of people to have different beliefs?

Convince yourself, and then go do something with your life.

redredred · M

I’m trying to find one true and verifiable sentence in this and so far I’ve got nothing. Adaptations to the environment are not inheritable. You simply don’t have even a basic understanding what evolution is or how it works.

Carazaa · F

Thank you! very logical, only Saved understand what you mean so please just ignore all the confused people who critisize the Bible. Some of us who know God, understand!

Dolimyte · 41-45, M

The bible need not be proven wrong, it needs to be proven to be true.

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F

need a force to drive it

Evolution is change in the frequency and distribution of alleles.

Nothing more - nothing less

That’s it. That’s evolution.

Evolution is the process, and Natural Selection is the mechanism that drives it

Basic stuff

Natural Selection is differential survival of alleles in the face of constantly changing environments. The survival rates are not predictable, because genes march backwards into the future.

Magical entities are surplus to requirements

whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M

Your premise is flawed. (The Theory of)Evolution does not need to prove the bible wrong, it simply takes the scientific dot points of evidence that have been proven to exist and plots them, offering a "theory" that fits all the known available facts.
Equally the bible does not need to prove itself.. Right up to the point where someone holds it up and pronounces it is the undisputable truth and no correspondance will be entered into. THEN and only then does proof have to be offered. 😷

Northwest · M

The entire life on earth is driven by one force and I need not repeat it!

Please don't. You're as clueless as the rest of us.

DocSavage · M

@wildbill83
No, my definition matches. Just worded differently. The the cumulative changes mentioned are the the result of the variations in the self replication I described. Over generations the cumulative variations make big differences.
The current species are far removed from their ancestors.

Pikachu

I can't help but feel that this thread was made in response to seeing my thread about evolution.

If you're interested, PM and we can talk about the evidence that evolution has occurred and why young earth creationism fails to account for the data we see in the world.
🙂✌️

GerOttman · 70-79, M

that all sounds super cool! if it all works out how you think, after we're both in heaven, meet me at the wine bar downtown. We'll talk!

SW-User

I suppose you are a flat earth supporter as well. It has been a well known fact that the aboriginal people have been around for 60,000 years

mrh1972 · MVIP

Why cant we just say that if beleiving in a higher being makes your life better in some way then thats ok, just the same as the people who dont believe.

ArishMell · 70-79, M

Yes - Christians believe God created the Universe, everything in it and the process by which they work.

Fine so far - that almost defines this religion (and others).

No - mankind alone, never mind the planet, is far, far older than the 17C Bishop Ussher's rough estimate of 4000 BCE + the 2000 CE years; life does develop via evolution; oh, and the planet is an oblate spheroid not a disc and it orbits the Sun within one of a vast number of galaxies in a Cosmos of calculated age >[14 X 10^9] years....

.... and guess what? Most modern Christians accept and are very happy with these, with learning ever more widely what God has actually done not what one small Bronze Age society thought He had!

Even the Vatican eventually accepted Galileo had been right... though took 4 centuries to do so.

It's only a vociferous minority fundamentalist fringe who like to demean their own God by clinging to Old Testament literalism.

Though I wonder why some are so determined to push their narrow-minded, blasphemous ignorance.

Elessar · 31-35, M

Antivaxxers are providing us with real-world evidence of natural selection / darwinism, just give delta some more time. 😷

MaryJo1996 · 26-30, F

Evolution is more plausible than a fairy tale.

If you are to believe in God, then why not Cinderella? Snow White? Jack and the Beanstalk? Goldilocks? Etc. There all just stories, like the silliness about "God".

BizSuitStacy · M

Not sure why creation and evolution are mtutually exclusive.

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SnowBlack · 22-25, F

You seem disinterested in well reasoned truth, but I hope you enjoy your belief.

fernie2

Please! DON'T repeat it!!!

Berti33 · 41-45, F

Why you estimating, earth is only 6000 yrs old? How do you estimate the length of a day in this present world?
How can you eastimate the length of a day before God made sun and moon?
In your concept, how long would be the last day, the day of the Lord?