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1954zebedee · 70-79, M
But the question remains why??
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ArishMell · 70-79, M
@NortiusMaximus I doubt they really influence the young at all.
Nominally we are still a Christian State hence the Church's representaion in the Lords, which incidentally I think a vital institution that does know it is not "elected", but I think starting a school day with any religious assembly now is out-dated and needless. I thought so when at school and that was half a century ago!
Nominally we are still a Christian State hence the Church's representaion in the Lords, which incidentally I think a vital institution that does know it is not "elected", but I think starting a school day with any religious assembly now is out-dated and needless. I thought so when at school and that was half a century ago!
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Carazaa · F
Religious Tests and Oaths in State Constitutions, 1776-1784
Nine out of thirteen states had some sort of religious test requirement for officeholders in their constitutions. At the time, many believed religious oaths were supposed to guarantee honorable public service for fear of incurring the wrath of God. Public officials who violated their oaths might escape punishment here on earth but could not avoid punishment in the hereafter.
Delaware, 1776
Every person who shall be chosen a member of either house, or appointed to any office or place of trust, before taking his seat, or entering upon the execution of his office, shall take the following oath, or affirmation, if conscientiously scrupulous of taking an oath, to wit: “I, do profess faith in God the Father, and in J[b]esus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God,[/b] blessed for evermore; and I do acknowledge the holy scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by divine inspiration.”
Maryland, 1776
That no other test or qualification ought to be required, on admission to any office of trust or profit, than such oath of support and fidelity to this State, and such oath of office, as shall be directed by this Convention or the Legislature of this State, and a declaration of a belief in the Christian religion.
New Jersey, 1776
No Protestant inhabitant of this Colony shall be denied the enjoyment of any civil right, merely on account of his religious principles; but that all persons, professing a belief in the faith of any Protestant sect. who shall demean themselves peaceably under the government, as hereby established, shall be capable of being elected into any office of profit or trust, or being a member of either branch of the Legislature. . . .
Pennsylvania, 1776
I do believe in one God, the creator and governor of the universe, the rewarder of the good and the punisher of the wicked. And I do acknowledge the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by Divine inspiration.
North Carolina, 1776
That no person, who shall deny the being of God or the truth of the Protestant religion, or the divine authority either of the Old or New Testaments, or who shall hold religious principles incompatible with the freedom and safety of the State, shall be capable of holding any office or place of trust or profit in the civil department within this State.
Georgia, 1777
The representatives shall be . . . of the Protestent religion. . . .
Vermont, 1777
And each member, before he takes his seat, shall make and subscribe the following declaration, ” I ____ do believe in one God, the Creator and Governor of the Diverse, the rewarder of the good and punisher of the wicked. And I do acknowledge the scriptures of the old and new testament to be given by divine inspiration, and own and profess the protestant religion.”
Massachusetts, 1780
Any person chosen governor, lieutenant-governor, councillor, senator, or representative, and accepting the trust, shall, before he proceed to execute the duties of his place or office, make and subscribe the following declaration: “I . . . do declare that I believe the Christian religion, and have a firm persuasion of its truth; and that I am seized and possessed, in my own right, of the property required by the constitution, as one qualification for the office or place to which I am elected.”
New Hampshire, 1784
Every member of the house of representatives shall be of the Protestant religion. . . . That no person shall be capable of being elected a senator who is not of the Protestant religion. . . . The President shall be chosen annually; and no person shall be eligible to this office, unless at the time of his election, he . . . shall be of the protestant religion.
Center for the Study of the American Constitution
Nine out of thirteen states had some sort of religious test requirement for officeholders in their constitutions. At the time, many believed religious oaths were supposed to guarantee honorable public service for fear of incurring the wrath of God. Public officials who violated their oaths might escape punishment here on earth but could not avoid punishment in the hereafter.
Delaware, 1776
Every person who shall be chosen a member of either house, or appointed to any office or place of trust, before taking his seat, or entering upon the execution of his office, shall take the following oath, or affirmation, if conscientiously scrupulous of taking an oath, to wit: “I, do profess faith in God the Father, and in J[b]esus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God,[/b] blessed for evermore; and I do acknowledge the holy scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by divine inspiration.”
Maryland, 1776
That no other test or qualification ought to be required, on admission to any office of trust or profit, than such oath of support and fidelity to this State, and such oath of office, as shall be directed by this Convention or the Legislature of this State, and a declaration of a belief in the Christian religion.
New Jersey, 1776
No Protestant inhabitant of this Colony shall be denied the enjoyment of any civil right, merely on account of his religious principles; but that all persons, professing a belief in the faith of any Protestant sect. who shall demean themselves peaceably under the government, as hereby established, shall be capable of being elected into any office of profit or trust, or being a member of either branch of the Legislature. . . .
Pennsylvania, 1776
I do believe in one God, the creator and governor of the universe, the rewarder of the good and the punisher of the wicked. And I do acknowledge the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by Divine inspiration.
North Carolina, 1776
That no person, who shall deny the being of God or the truth of the Protestant religion, or the divine authority either of the Old or New Testaments, or who shall hold religious principles incompatible with the freedom and safety of the State, shall be capable of holding any office or place of trust or profit in the civil department within this State.
Georgia, 1777
The representatives shall be . . . of the Protestent religion. . . .
Vermont, 1777
And each member, before he takes his seat, shall make and subscribe the following declaration, ” I ____ do believe in one God, the Creator and Governor of the Diverse, the rewarder of the good and punisher of the wicked. And I do acknowledge the scriptures of the old and new testament to be given by divine inspiration, and own and profess the protestant religion.”
Massachusetts, 1780
Any person chosen governor, lieutenant-governor, councillor, senator, or representative, and accepting the trust, shall, before he proceed to execute the duties of his place or office, make and subscribe the following declaration: “I . . . do declare that I believe the Christian religion, and have a firm persuasion of its truth; and that I am seized and possessed, in my own right, of the property required by the constitution, as one qualification for the office or place to which I am elected.”
New Hampshire, 1784
Every member of the house of representatives shall be of the Protestant religion. . . . That no person shall be capable of being elected a senator who is not of the Protestant religion. . . . The President shall be chosen annually; and no person shall be eligible to this office, unless at the time of his election, he . . . shall be of the protestant religion.
Center for the Study of the American Constitution
DocSavage · M
@Carazaa
What those “laws” show is groups of men who tried to keep control of the nation for their own selfish desires. The Mormons used similar tactics to control business and politics.
Getting back to our Christian roots opens the door to corruption. That’s why the laws were changed to stop them.
What those “laws” show is groups of men who tried to keep control of the nation for their own selfish desires. The Mormons used similar tactics to control business and politics.
Getting back to our Christian roots opens the door to corruption. That’s why the laws were changed to stop them.
PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@Carazaa Unfortunately that is just a right wing fantasy, not reality.
Elessar · 26-30, M
@Carazaa No, it's not. I'll "listen" to Thomas Jefferson, who has more authority than anyone on YouTube in regards to constitutional matter:
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties."
(https://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html)
DestroyerOfIdeologies · 26-30, M
America was founded on rock and roll! 🤘 America is a hippie nation. Sex, drugs and rock and roll! Even Jesus Christ was a long haired blond hippie. The 60s was the dream of George Washington. Rock and roll is my religion and Elvis is still alive and he is our pope. Religious people from the near east, middle east, and far east don't like these, but we got our own home grown religious conservatives in the west that don't like these either. And America has to protect itself from such people, both outside and inside. By the way, Christianity has it's roots from the east, has ideas that are very much of the east, old testament written from a language in the east.
Now Washington in his time didn't exactly have rock and roll the way it is now, but I'm sure he chilled to some form of dithyrambic music available then. Granted he did come from a milieu of Greco-Roman Judeo Christian Enlightenment even Romanticism, but you people emphasize Judeo Christian and forgot the rest. What books did they read? Wasn't just the Bible, bunch of Classical Greek and Roman stuff, Enlightenment and Romantic Philosophers, and -- law books! And oh yeah what milieu did Christianity develop? What language was the New Testament written in and from what culture did they steal oops I mean burrowed those tropes?
The enlightenment idea of the division of power is very prominent in our laws, and our government. Why did George Washington decline to be king? Why is the presidency term only 4 years and can't run for more than a second term? Why do we have three branches of government? Why are those Capitol rioters being charged with felonies? Robert Jeffries needs to update those videos shown in the beginning with that, and this time say, "leading up to the January 6 attack on the Capitol."
In conclusion, America was founded by lawyers. In Washington's time, there were more books being ordered in USA than in England, mostly law books. We are a nation of lawyers and that makes us a litigious bunch. We're all suing each other to hell and crying foul, brutality and harassment. But hey it's all good. In some cases the law will act as a sword and go after people, in others a shield to protect people. And in all cases Lady Justice has a blind fold and she's not gonna care who's Christian or not. For we are a nation of laws, laws that don't mirror the commandments. Yeah we'll punish you for theft and murder, but that's not exclusive to Christianity, nor did it begin with it. And we don't have to honor our parents, especially when we reach 18. We do not stone people for adultery. We can make fun of god or allah and yeah I wrote their names in small letters. We don't have blasphemy laws. We have laws that made the division of power, and continue to protect the division of power, and whatever else division, including the division between church and state. America will never be a theocracy, and the founding fathers have done well to protect us from it. I'll acknowledge the milieu it was formed in, that there are Christian influences, but many other influences, but it is not a Christian nation, and it'll never be a Muslim nation, or Hindu nation, or pagan nation, or atheist nation. America, forever growing, and no religion, or political ideology shall shackle it.
Now Washington in his time didn't exactly have rock and roll the way it is now, but I'm sure he chilled to some form of dithyrambic music available then. Granted he did come from a milieu of Greco-Roman Judeo Christian Enlightenment even Romanticism, but you people emphasize Judeo Christian and forgot the rest. What books did they read? Wasn't just the Bible, bunch of Classical Greek and Roman stuff, Enlightenment and Romantic Philosophers, and -- law books! And oh yeah what milieu did Christianity develop? What language was the New Testament written in and from what culture did they steal oops I mean burrowed those tropes?
The enlightenment idea of the division of power is very prominent in our laws, and our government. Why did George Washington decline to be king? Why is the presidency term only 4 years and can't run for more than a second term? Why do we have three branches of government? Why are those Capitol rioters being charged with felonies? Robert Jeffries needs to update those videos shown in the beginning with that, and this time say, "leading up to the January 6 attack on the Capitol."
In conclusion, America was founded by lawyers. In Washington's time, there were more books being ordered in USA than in England, mostly law books. We are a nation of lawyers and that makes us a litigious bunch. We're all suing each other to hell and crying foul, brutality and harassment. But hey it's all good. In some cases the law will act as a sword and go after people, in others a shield to protect people. And in all cases Lady Justice has a blind fold and she's not gonna care who's Christian or not. For we are a nation of laws, laws that don't mirror the commandments. Yeah we'll punish you for theft and murder, but that's not exclusive to Christianity, nor did it begin with it. And we don't have to honor our parents, especially when we reach 18. We do not stone people for adultery. We can make fun of god or allah and yeah I wrote their names in small letters. We don't have blasphemy laws. We have laws that made the division of power, and continue to protect the division of power, and whatever else division, including the division between church and state. America will never be a theocracy, and the founding fathers have done well to protect us from it. I'll acknowledge the milieu it was formed in, that there are Christian influences, but many other influences, but it is not a Christian nation, and it'll never be a Muslim nation, or Hindu nation, or pagan nation, or atheist nation. America, forever growing, and no religion, or political ideology shall shackle it.
Carazaa · F
@DestroyerOfIdeologies God can shackle us and he is, if we don't return to our founding fathers dream for this nation.
Carazaa · F
@CopperCicada It was! Watch the video if you need a refresher course!
This message was deleted by its author.
Thinkerbell · 41-45, F
Thinkerbell · 41-45, F
LeopoldBloom · M
So what's your point? The Constitution expressly forbids a religious test for office. The states were initially permitted to ignore that, but fortunately, since then have been required to allow anyone of any religion to hold office. It should be the choice of the people. It's tyrannical to limit government to one religious group.
In practice, every president with the exception of Thomas Jefferson has been at least nominally Christian. I don't think a non-Christian could be elected president, at least not now. But if you're saying all government workers should be required to swear an oath to Jesus Christ, fortunately there's zero possibility of that ever happening unless the US stops being a representative federal republic and turns into a tyranny. And you could find that the Christians in charge in that case are of a different denomination than you, making you one of the people who would be oppressed under that system.
Religious people should support religious freedom for their own good.
In practice, every president with the exception of Thomas Jefferson has been at least nominally Christian. I don't think a non-Christian could be elected president, at least not now. But if you're saying all government workers should be required to swear an oath to Jesus Christ, fortunately there's zero possibility of that ever happening unless the US stops being a representative federal republic and turns into a tyranny. And you could find that the Christians in charge in that case are of a different denomination than you, making you one of the people who would be oppressed under that system.
Religious people should support religious freedom for their own good.
LeopoldBloom · M
@Carazaa I'm just giving you an example. Many fundamentalist Christians gain an entirely different view of what living in a theocracy would be like after spending time in Utah. A theocracy isn't fun if the people in charge are a different religion.
Still waiting for you to cite the clause in the Constitution that says the U.S. is a Christian country.
Still waiting for you to cite the clause in the Constitution that says the U.S. is a Christian country.
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zonavar68 · 56-60, M
No - there are a lot of people who identify as Christian as a Re.Ligion in the USA - the country itself is not 'Christian'. A sovereign nation cannot be ideologically aligned to any one brand of faith regardless how hard an incumbent government might try to intrisically bind Re.Ligion and Government together.
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We are a secular nation. The Bill of Rights states:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
In the U.S. people may believe in any religion they wish, or be an atheist, without fear of repression. What they may not do is attempt to force their idea of religion on others.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
In the U.S. people may believe in any religion they wish, or be an atheist, without fear of repression. What they may not do is attempt to force their idea of religion on others.
Faith13praise · 51-55, M
@CopperCicada not real Christians any more than those so-called prosperity gospel preachers are. The constitution is clear on that yet there are those in government that want to take away Christian rights, no one in government is suggesting what you stated, only fringe and non-Chrisitan people masquerading as Christians
This message was deleted by its author.
Carazaa · F
@CopperCicada That is not my belief nor what I am asserting here. I believe in equality and love for all people.
yeronlyman · 51-55, M
Carazaa · F
@yeronlyman @DocSavage
Religious Tests and Oaths in State Constitutions, 1776-1784
Nine out of thirteen states had some sort of religious test requirement for officeholders in their constitutions. At the time, many believed religious oaths were supposed to guarantee honorable public service for fear of incurring the wrath of God. Public officials who violated their oaths might escape punishment here on earth but could not avoid punishment in the hereafter.
Delaware, 1776
Every person who shall be chosen a member of either house, or appointed to any office or place of trust, before taking his seat, or entering upon the execution of his office, shall take the following oath, or affirmation, if conscientiously scrupulous of taking an oath, to wit: “I, do profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed for evermore; and I do acknowledge the holy scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by divine inspiration.”
Maryland, 1776
That no other test or qualification ought to be required, on admission to any office of trust or profit, than such oath of support and fidelity to this State, and such oath of office, as shall be directed by this Convention or the Legislature of this State, and a declaration of a belief in the Christian religion.
New Jersey, 1776
No Protestant inhabitant of this Colony shall be denied the enjoyment of any civil right, merely on account of his religious principles; but that all persons, professing a belief in the faith of any Protestant sect. who shall demean themselves peaceably under the government, as hereby established, shall be capable of being elected into any office of profit or trust, or being a member of either branch of the Legislature. . . .
Pennsylvania, 1776
I do believe in one God, the creator and governor of the universe, the rewarder of the good and the punisher of the wicked. And I do acknowledge the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by Divine inspiration.
North Carolina, 1776
That no person, who shall deny the being of God or the truth of the Protestant religion, or the divine authority either of the Old or New Testaments, or who shall hold religious principles incompatible with the freedom and safety of the State, shall be capable of holding any office or place of trust or profit in the civil department within this State.
Georgia, 1777
The representatives shall be . . . of the Protestent religion. . . .
Vermont, 1777
And each member, before he takes his seat, shall make and subscribe the following declaration, ” I ____ do believe in one God, the Creator and Governor of the Diverse, the rewarder of the good and punisher of the wicked. And I do acknowledge the scriptures of the old and new testament to be given by divine inspiration, and own and profess the protestant religion.”
Massachusetts, 1780
Any person chosen governor, lieutenant-governor, councillor, senator, or representative, and accepting the trust, shall, before he proceed to execute the duties of his place or office, make and subscribe the following declaration: “I . . . do declare that I believe the Christian religion, and have a firm persuasion of its truth; and that I am seized and possessed, in my own right, of the property required by the constitution, as one qualification for the office or place to which I am elected.”
New Hampshire, 1784
Every member of the house of representatives shall be of the Protestant religion. . . . That no person shall be capable of being elected a senator who is not of the Protestant religion. . . . The President shall be chosen annually; and no person shall be eligible to this office, unless at the time of his election, he . . . shall be of the protestant religion.
Center for the Study of the American Constitution
Religious Tests and Oaths in State Constitutions, 1776-1784
Nine out of thirteen states had some sort of religious test requirement for officeholders in their constitutions. At the time, many believed religious oaths were supposed to guarantee honorable public service for fear of incurring the wrath of God. Public officials who violated their oaths might escape punishment here on earth but could not avoid punishment in the hereafter.
Delaware, 1776
Every person who shall be chosen a member of either house, or appointed to any office or place of trust, before taking his seat, or entering upon the execution of his office, shall take the following oath, or affirmation, if conscientiously scrupulous of taking an oath, to wit: “I, do profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed for evermore; and I do acknowledge the holy scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by divine inspiration.”
Maryland, 1776
That no other test or qualification ought to be required, on admission to any office of trust or profit, than such oath of support and fidelity to this State, and such oath of office, as shall be directed by this Convention or the Legislature of this State, and a declaration of a belief in the Christian religion.
New Jersey, 1776
No Protestant inhabitant of this Colony shall be denied the enjoyment of any civil right, merely on account of his religious principles; but that all persons, professing a belief in the faith of any Protestant sect. who shall demean themselves peaceably under the government, as hereby established, shall be capable of being elected into any office of profit or trust, or being a member of either branch of the Legislature. . . .
Pennsylvania, 1776
I do believe in one God, the creator and governor of the universe, the rewarder of the good and the punisher of the wicked. And I do acknowledge the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by Divine inspiration.
North Carolina, 1776
That no person, who shall deny the being of God or the truth of the Protestant religion, or the divine authority either of the Old or New Testaments, or who shall hold religious principles incompatible with the freedom and safety of the State, shall be capable of holding any office or place of trust or profit in the civil department within this State.
Georgia, 1777
The representatives shall be . . . of the Protestent religion. . . .
Vermont, 1777
And each member, before he takes his seat, shall make and subscribe the following declaration, ” I ____ do believe in one God, the Creator and Governor of the Diverse, the rewarder of the good and punisher of the wicked. And I do acknowledge the scriptures of the old and new testament to be given by divine inspiration, and own and profess the protestant religion.”
Massachusetts, 1780
Any person chosen governor, lieutenant-governor, councillor, senator, or representative, and accepting the trust, shall, before he proceed to execute the duties of his place or office, make and subscribe the following declaration: “I . . . do declare that I believe the Christian religion, and have a firm persuasion of its truth; and that I am seized and possessed, in my own right, of the property required by the constitution, as one qualification for the office or place to which I am elected.”
New Hampshire, 1784
Every member of the house of representatives shall be of the Protestant religion. . . . That no person shall be capable of being elected a senator who is not of the Protestant religion. . . . The President shall be chosen annually; and no person shall be eligible to this office, unless at the time of his election, he . . . shall be of the protestant religion.
Center for the Study of the American Constitution
BlueSkyKing · M
@Carazaa Fortunately, Jefferson and others made the rights of man the cornerstone of our constitution.
Article VI, Clause 3:
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
Article VI, Clause 3:
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
DocSavage · M
@Carazaa
John Quincy Adams did not take the oath on a bible. Neither did Teddy Roosevelt . He used a law book instead. The president can choose to swear or affirm according to their beliefs. The phrase “so help me god” refers not to Jesus, it refers to whatever higher power recognized by the person taking the oath, to emphasize the importance of the promise. No state in the country can legally require an oath to Jesus. It’s against the constitution.
John Quincy Adams did not take the oath on a bible. Neither did Teddy Roosevelt . He used a law book instead. The president can choose to swear or affirm according to their beliefs. The phrase “so help me god” refers not to Jesus, it refers to whatever higher power recognized by the person taking the oath, to emphasize the importance of the promise. No state in the country can legally require an oath to Jesus. It’s against the constitution.
DocSavage · M
@Carazaa
The oath was not to believe in Jesus, it was the promise to the office. Again at the time swearing on the bible was tradition. In court rooms now, it’s not mandatory, if you’re a different faith or Atheist. Stop trying to make it about Jesus. The Oath is vow to the true, not necessarily to god.
The oath was not to believe in Jesus, it was the promise to the office. Again at the time swearing on the bible was tradition. In court rooms now, it’s not mandatory, if you’re a different faith or Atheist. Stop trying to make it about Jesus. The Oath is vow to the true, not necessarily to god.
BlueSkyKing · M
In a letter to the Baptists of Danbury Connecticut in 1802, Thomas Jefferson assured them that “there will always be a wall of separation between Church and State”.
It was meant as encouragement for the baptists, who were scared of being persecuted by… the Congregationalists of Danbury Connecticut. Jefferson made it clear that the United States constitution enshrined secularism, and that they needn’t fear the potential of religious persecution.
It was meant as encouragement for the baptists, who were scared of being persecuted by… the Congregationalists of Danbury Connecticut. Jefferson made it clear that the United States constitution enshrined secularism, and that they needn’t fear the potential of religious persecution.
This message was deleted by its author.
Carazaa · F
@CopperCicada Did you watch the video?
This message was deleted by its author.
Carazaa · F
@CopperCicada I see.
LeopoldBloom · M
littlepuppywantanewlife · 31-35, M
BlueSkyKing · M
@Carazaa Went over it. Our country is a product of The Enlightenment not religion. A new idea that focuses on the rights of man. You seem to not want freedom of religion and us to have freedom from religion.
On June 24, 1826, Thomas Jefferson wrote his last letter. Addressed from his Virginia home, Monticello, it
was sent in response to an invitation from Roger C. Weightman, the chairman of a Washington committee to celebrate the then-impending fiftieth anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson proffered regrets that his fast-declining health would prevent him from making the journey to the capital. He went on to elaborate this regret in the following manner:
"I should, indeed, with peculiar delight, have met and exchanged there congratulations personally with the small band, the remnant of that host of worthies who joined with us on that day, in the bold and doubtful election we were to make for our country, between submission or the sword; and to have enjoyed with them the consolatory fact, that our fellow citizens, after half a century of experience and prosperity, continue to approve the choice we made. May it be to the world, what I believe it will be (to some parts sooner, to others later, but finally to all), the signal of arousing men to burst the chains under which monkish ignorance and superstition had persuaded them to bind themselves, and to assume the blessings and security of self-government. That form which we have substituted, restores the free right to the unbounded exercise of reason and freedom of opinion. All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately, by the grace of God. These are grounds of hope for others. For ourselves, let the annual return of this day forever refresh our recollections of these rights, and an undiminished devotion to them."
Thomas Jefferson died on the immediately following Fourth of July, killed by a wasting diarrhea and an infection of the urinary tract. His final words were: “Is it the Fourth?” On the same day, his great rival John Adams died at Quincy, Massachusetts. His final words were: “Thomas Jefferson still lives,” or, at the very least, “Thomas Jefferson...” Many tales of the last words of famous men are apocryphal, or are pious fabrications, but these seem tolerably well authenticated.
In the above letter, Jefferson touched upon all the chief points of his political life. He did not need to mention his own authorship of the Declaration, the preamble to which had established the concept of human rights, for the first time in history, as the basis for a republic. He trenchantly restated the view that the American Revolution was founded on universal principles, and was thus emphatically for export. He laid renewed stress on the importance of science and innovation as the spur of the Enlightenment, and scornfully contrasted this with mere faith and credulity. His open skepticism in point of religion is the more striking given that he had by that date already made his own will, designed his own tombstone, and told his physicians that he was quite prepared for death.
Thomas Jefferson Author of America - Christopher Hitchens
On June 24, 1826, Thomas Jefferson wrote his last letter. Addressed from his Virginia home, Monticello, it
was sent in response to an invitation from Roger C. Weightman, the chairman of a Washington committee to celebrate the then-impending fiftieth anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson proffered regrets that his fast-declining health would prevent him from making the journey to the capital. He went on to elaborate this regret in the following manner:
"I should, indeed, with peculiar delight, have met and exchanged there congratulations personally with the small band, the remnant of that host of worthies who joined with us on that day, in the bold and doubtful election we were to make for our country, between submission or the sword; and to have enjoyed with them the consolatory fact, that our fellow citizens, after half a century of experience and prosperity, continue to approve the choice we made. May it be to the world, what I believe it will be (to some parts sooner, to others later, but finally to all), the signal of arousing men to burst the chains under which monkish ignorance and superstition had persuaded them to bind themselves, and to assume the blessings and security of self-government. That form which we have substituted, restores the free right to the unbounded exercise of reason and freedom of opinion. All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately, by the grace of God. These are grounds of hope for others. For ourselves, let the annual return of this day forever refresh our recollections of these rights, and an undiminished devotion to them."
Thomas Jefferson died on the immediately following Fourth of July, killed by a wasting diarrhea and an infection of the urinary tract. His final words were: “Is it the Fourth?” On the same day, his great rival John Adams died at Quincy, Massachusetts. His final words were: “Thomas Jefferson still lives,” or, at the very least, “Thomas Jefferson...” Many tales of the last words of famous men are apocryphal, or are pious fabrications, but these seem tolerably well authenticated.
In the above letter, Jefferson touched upon all the chief points of his political life. He did not need to mention his own authorship of the Declaration, the preamble to which had established the concept of human rights, for the first time in history, as the basis for a republic. He trenchantly restated the view that the American Revolution was founded on universal principles, and was thus emphatically for export. He laid renewed stress on the importance of science and innovation as the spur of the Enlightenment, and scornfully contrasted this with mere faith and credulity. His open skepticism in point of religion is the more striking given that he had by that date already made his own will, designed his own tombstone, and told his physicians that he was quite prepared for death.
Thomas Jefferson Author of America - Christopher Hitchens
Carazaa · F
@BlueSkyKing You seem to believe that if we are chrstians we wont die, or ever get sick, or do anything wrong ever. We don't call ourself Chrsistians because we are good, but because Jesus is good, and we are sinners in need of him.
BlueSkyKing · M
@Carazaa You are putting words in my mouth. Don’t the rights of of the individual matter at all?
hippyjoe1955 · 70-79, M
I don't think a nation can be Christian since Christian is a condition limited to individuals. Moses tried to legislate morality. It didn't work out too well. I by the Grace God am a Christian and I try to help others to find the Salvation that sought me out. However I don't let politics into the church. Some things are sacred and some things are profane.
littlepuppywantanewlife · 31-35, M
@hippyjoe1955 you talk about religion? In some religion people were forcefully converted. Women and kids were abducted and forcefully converted.
hippyjoe1955 · 70-79, M
@littlepuppywantanewlife Yes that is very common in islam. I have family that harkens back the the Armenian Genocide. Some of their girls were taken captive and forcibly converted to islam. I read one account where the girl would justify her prayers to allah by converting them to prayers to Yahweh in her mind.
TheBannibalOne · 61-69, M
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DocSavage · M
@Theyitis
Ok, I’ll give you that. But it is the law that keeps Christianity and other religions in check.
Christians like to think they run everything. But there are checks and balances that prevent that. Carazaa is trying to push her beliefs on to everything. The constitution has grown pass whatever Christians roots it might of had in the beginning. That should be made very clear.
Ok, I’ll give you that. But it is the law that keeps Christianity and other religions in check.
Christians like to think they run everything. But there are checks and balances that prevent that. Carazaa is trying to push her beliefs on to everything. The constitution has grown pass whatever Christians roots it might of had in the beginning. That should be made very clear.
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ArishMell · 70-79, M
@Carazaa You might say the natural events are God's doing, though they hit the (self-?)virtuous and sinner alike; but violence is entirely human.
There is also the awful thought that mankind is bringing worsening weather on itself by its own actions over the last two centuries; but at least we do not cause earthquakes! We just put ourselves in their way by building settlements in seismically-active regions.
There is also the awful thought that mankind is bringing worsening weather on itself by its own actions over the last two centuries; but at least we do not cause earthquakes! We just put ourselves in their way by building settlements in seismically-active regions.
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
Faith13praise · 51-55, M
@whowasthatmaskedman You are both right and wrong, yes the constitution states that there will be no state religion and that all are free to worship in their way, mostly as a result of England having the Church of England and no other Christian denomination allowed even. Judeo-Christian values are a totally different matter. Those values say you have a choice to worship how you want, but that there is only one God. If you look at the declaration of independence, the Constitution, and state constitutions you find most based on the 10 commandments and other Judeo-Christian VALUES. Also to say "nut jobs" is rather insulting and not accepting of those with different views, also NOT Christian but yet you are allowed to by the freedom of speech clause in the Bill of Rights
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@Faith13praise I think we actually agree. I accept that the principles behind the Constitution are basically Judeo-christian, since it was men of that belief system who drew it up. Furthermore those commandments represent a reasonable basis for any tribal group wanting to live in close contact. As for the "Nut Job " comment. I stand by it. But personally apply it only to those who place their piety before a god above their duty to their family and community on earth. What I would call the mindless followers. You will have to decide if that is directed at yourself, but it was not meant personally.
NortiusMaximus · M
@ArishMell In the UK, the Queen appoints the PM and asks him or her to form a government - "Her Majesty's Government"
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@NortiusMaximus Yes - but the Sovereign still represents the State, or the nation if you like; and the Prime Minister is still the leader of the country's administrator that actually makes the policies and laws.
It's a way of reminding governments, and us, that they are there to serve the nation not vice-versa.
It's a way of reminding governments, and us, that they are there to serve the nation not vice-versa.
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PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@MarmeeMarch I am not the one trying to turn a modern country back into a backwards theocracy run by religious lunatics. That is your argument not mine.
You are the one who wants to put the US on that list.
You are the one who wants to put the US on that list.
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SatanBurger · 36-40, F
Oi! There are and always will be many other religions aside from Christianity. There's so much wrong with implying America is a Christian Nation, kind of assumes that everyone is Christian, everyone is not and never has been. The only reason America was "once" all Christian was through persecution of minorities so people kind of had to be "all Christian" or else.
Now they don't do it as much anymore even though some of them are still a$$holes but still, the only reason America ever was Christian was through force, the only way America would be any other religion aside from Christianity is through force because the reality is that we are diverse and we were never one religion to begin with.
Ug. End of.
Now they don't do it as much anymore even though some of them are still a$$holes but still, the only reason America ever was Christian was through force, the only way America would be any other religion aside from Christianity is through force because the reality is that we are diverse and we were never one religion to begin with.
Ug. End of.
Carazaa · F
@SatanBurger I guess you didn't listen to the video.
Carazaa · F
@SatanBurger I agree but there are still christian laws and primarily christian.
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TheSentinel · M
zonavar68 · 56-60, M
@TheSentinel which includes all the so-called 'mainstream' Christian Re.Ligions too.
TurtlePink · 22-25, F
Faith13praise · 51-55, M
@FrogManSometimesLooksBothWays as a nation with Judeo-Christian values we accept those who are not as still created by God and are equal before the law
@Faith13praise God Bless America!!
CopperCicada · M
Why do you wish there to be a theocracy?
Ceinwyn · 26-30, F
Not according to the constitution.
Aren’t you from Norway or Finland?
Carazaa · F
@LilithoftheTrees I go back and forth.
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
Thank you.
Faith13praise · 51-55, M
https://youtu.be/zTMXV4HZH0s
tindrummer · M
No, it isn't - at least not yet thank goodness. I don't want evangelicals deciding anything about my life.
SW-User
@badminton you did not get my point. But whatever.
iamonfire696 · 41-45, F
NortiusMaximus · M
@JoeyFoxx What about those christian evangelists in the US who attack abortion clinics and the people work work for them? How about those who destroy the symobols of other religions? Are they really better than the Taliban?
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TheSentinel · M
And god sent a plague to earth. And that plague's name is trump.😁
TheArbitrator · 36-40, M
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LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
Carazaa · F
@LordShadowfire Please listen to the video.
LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
@Carazaa I don't have to. I'm versed in the Constitution.
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PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@LordShadowfire It is sad that some here don't see they are just a different flavor of exactly the same thing.
Carazaa · F
@LordShadowfire No it does not make me mad. I respect peoples opinions. I love all people regardless of their religion. I delete disrespectful comments just be aware.
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