USA is a Christian nation. [Spirituality & Religion]
[media=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MYOr90CkDU]
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LeopoldBloom · M
So what's your point? The Constitution expressly forbids a religious test for office. The states were initially permitted to ignore that, but fortunately, since then have been required to allow anyone of any religion to hold office. It should be the choice of the people. It's tyrannical to limit government to one religious group.
In practice, every president with the exception of Thomas Jefferson has been at least nominally Christian. I don't think a non-Christian could be elected president, at least not now. But if you're saying all government workers should be required to swear an oath to Jesus Christ, fortunately there's zero possibility of that ever happening unless the US stops being a representative federal republic and turns into a tyranny. And you could find that the Christians in charge in that case are of a different denomination than you, making you one of the people who would be oppressed under that system.
Religious people should support religious freedom for their own good.
In practice, every president with the exception of Thomas Jefferson has been at least nominally Christian. I don't think a non-Christian could be elected president, at least not now. But if you're saying all government workers should be required to swear an oath to Jesus Christ, fortunately there's zero possibility of that ever happening unless the US stops being a representative federal republic and turns into a tyranny. And you could find that the Christians in charge in that case are of a different denomination than you, making you one of the people who would be oppressed under that system.
Religious people should support religious freedom for their own good.
Carazaa · F
@LeopoldBloom I agree, but my point was its founded on the Bible and many still believe in Jesus in this country, and its a great video of education.
LeopoldBloom · M
@Carazaa The United States was not "founded on the Bible." The words "Bible," "Jesus," and "Christianity" appear nowhere in the Constitution. The influences on the founding fathers include the Enlightenment, Greek and Roman philosophy, and the Iroquois Confederacy. With a handful of exceptions like Catholics and Deists, most of the framers were Episcopal, Congregationalist (the United Church of Christ today), and Quakers - all among the most liberal denominations in the U.S. today.
If you're saying that many Americans are Christians, that's correct - Christians of all denominations comprise around 70% of the population. However, no particular denomination takes precedence; the largest are Roman Catholicism and Southern Baptist, which have little in common other than both being "Christian."
As for the religious tests imposed by the states, I've already mentioned that. Imagine that you lived in Utah and worked for the government - would you submit to a requirement that you convert to Mormonism to keep your job? If not, why should anyone else be required to convert to your particular denomination to work for a state government? You're just assuming that your religion would be the official one. Mormonism arose in the US and if any Christian denomination were to take over the government, that would be the most appropriate one.
If you're saying that many Americans are Christians, that's correct - Christians of all denominations comprise around 70% of the population. However, no particular denomination takes precedence; the largest are Roman Catholicism and Southern Baptist, which have little in common other than both being "Christian."
As for the religious tests imposed by the states, I've already mentioned that. Imagine that you lived in Utah and worked for the government - would you submit to a requirement that you convert to Mormonism to keep your job? If not, why should anyone else be required to convert to your particular denomination to work for a state government? You're just assuming that your religion would be the official one. Mormonism arose in the US and if any Christian denomination were to take over the government, that would be the most appropriate one.
Carazaa · F
@LeopoldBloom Wrong! You did not listen to that video.
Kwek00 · 41-45, M
@Carazaa You just didn't read the constitution. But the 1st amendment is always really difficult for people with a far-right ideology.
The Danbury Baptist Church asked Thomas Jefferson, to explain the 1st amendment concerning to religion. Since the man was pretty engaged in the writing of that amendment, he was ideal to explain the wording, and this is what he wrote:
The goal of this project was to create a country governement by "the people", not by "god". And that means all people, no matter the religion or lack there of. Therefore, since all religions could find a shelter under this umbrella, the governement shouldn't put restrictions on any of them BUT also not make laws that pamper to their believes. America isn't a "Christian Nation", it's just a nation that happens to have a lot of christians. And because their a lot of them, some of them feel the urge to tell others how to live their life. Which is something that the constitution forbids people to do. You can't be such a Christian and also call yourself an American that lives by the laws of the land.
The Danbury Baptist Church asked Thomas Jefferson, to explain the 1st amendment concerning to religion. Since the man was pretty engaged in the writing of that amendment, he was ideal to explain the wording, and this is what he wrote:
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more
pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
Th. Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802
The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more
pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
Th. Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802
The goal of this project was to create a country governement by "the people", not by "god". And that means all people, no matter the religion or lack there of. Therefore, since all religions could find a shelter under this umbrella, the governement shouldn't put restrictions on any of them BUT also not make laws that pamper to their believes. America isn't a "Christian Nation", it's just a nation that happens to have a lot of christians. And because their a lot of them, some of them feel the urge to tell others how to live their life. Which is something that the constitution forbids people to do. You can't be such a Christian and also call yourself an American that lives by the laws of the land.
LeopoldBloom · M
@Carazaa Please cite the section of the Constitution that declares the US to be a Christian nation.
I already agreed that the states used to have religious tests, which fortunately are no longer allowed. Otherwise, you would be forced to convert to Mormonism if you lived in Utah.
I already agreed that the states used to have religious tests, which fortunately are no longer allowed. Otherwise, you would be forced to convert to Mormonism if you lived in Utah.
LeopoldBloom · M
@Carazaa I'm just giving you an example. Many fundamentalist Christians gain an entirely different view of what living in a theocracy would be like after spending time in Utah. A theocracy isn't fun if the people in charge are a different religion.
Still waiting for you to cite the clause in the Constitution that says the U.S. is a Christian country.
Still waiting for you to cite the clause in the Constitution that says the U.S. is a Christian country.
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