DunningKruger · 61-69, M
Judaism is a religion. If one follows the practices of that religion, one is a Jew. It has been around for so long and has such a remarkable history of resilience in the face of adversity that Jews have become also an ethnic group.
Israel is identified with the Jewish people because, of course, it was founded primary by European Jews who survived the Holocaust and migrated out of Europe after World War II. Zionism — the principle that the Jews have a homeland in the Middle East and should return there — goes back to the 19th century, and certainly laid some of the groundwork for the formation of Israel.
Not everyone who lives in Israel are Jewish. There are many Palestinians who live there, for example, as this was primarily their land before the formation of Israel, although it was occupied by the Ottoman Empire and, after its collapse, the British.
Enmity toward the Jews probably traces back to the days of the Roman Empire, as factions in Judea strongly opposed the Roman occupation of the region, and the Romans put forth quite a bit of propaganda about the Judeans at that time. If you look at antisemitic works since then, much of it can be traced, to some degree, back to this Roman anti-Judean propaganda. Likely this was in part because the Jewish people have mostly resisted acculturation through their history, and so have remained a people apart from most of the people they lived among. The same is somewhat true of the Romany people ("Gypsies"), who suffered from similar prejudice through the Middle Ages to the modern age.
Just my two cents on the subject, for what it's worth.
Israel is identified with the Jewish people because, of course, it was founded primary by European Jews who survived the Holocaust and migrated out of Europe after World War II. Zionism — the principle that the Jews have a homeland in the Middle East and should return there — goes back to the 19th century, and certainly laid some of the groundwork for the formation of Israel.
Not everyone who lives in Israel are Jewish. There are many Palestinians who live there, for example, as this was primarily their land before the formation of Israel, although it was occupied by the Ottoman Empire and, after its collapse, the British.
Enmity toward the Jews probably traces back to the days of the Roman Empire, as factions in Judea strongly opposed the Roman occupation of the region, and the Romans put forth quite a bit of propaganda about the Judeans at that time. If you look at antisemitic works since then, much of it can be traced, to some degree, back to this Roman anti-Judean propaganda. Likely this was in part because the Jewish people have mostly resisted acculturation through their history, and so have remained a people apart from most of the people they lived among. The same is somewhat true of the Romany people ("Gypsies"), who suffered from similar prejudice through the Middle Ages to the modern age.
Just my two cents on the subject, for what it's worth.
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samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@basilfawlty89 we aren't arguing about that, please don't call me buddy!
DunningKruger · 61-69, M
@samueltyler2 Well, the neo-Babylonians weren't Greek, so there's that. But I'm sure we can agree that it was the Romans who destroyed the second temple.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@DunningKruger as in they essentially bombed the structure yes.
CrazyMusicLover · 31-35
I had exactly the same question when I was a kid/teen. I had no idea how can anybody look at someone and say "ah, she/he is a Jew" like my grandma often did. They look like regular white people to me and how is that relevant if they are Jews or not?
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@CrazyMusicLover perhaps it was more subtle. Have you read Oliver Twist?
CrazyMusicLover · 31-35
@samueltyler2 I haven't.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@CrazyMusicLover as classic story, and loaded with stereotypes.
LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
So, I'm not saying it's a pejorative term, but it's used as one a lot. And when I say a lot, I'm noticing an increase in use of it as a pejorative. But I would say context is key.
basilfawlty89 · 36-40, M
I think I get what you're saying here.
So the history of calling someone a "Jew" in a derogatory fashion stems from Religious Antisemitism, where Jewish people were stereotyped as "hucksters, usurers, corrupt, and guilty of deicide".
What they don't mention is that occupations like money lending and tax collecting were the only jobs Europeans allowed Jewish people due to bigotry.
This eventually met "Scientific" Racism where Jewish people as a people were regarded as greedy, dishonest and treacherous.
So the history of calling someone a "Jew" in a derogatory fashion stems from Religious Antisemitism, where Jewish people were stereotyped as "hucksters, usurers, corrupt, and guilty of deicide".
What they don't mention is that occupations like money lending and tax collecting were the only jobs Europeans allowed Jewish people due to bigotry.
This eventually met "Scientific" Racism where Jewish people as a people were regarded as greedy, dishonest and treacherous.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@basilfawlty89 interestingly, Jews were not allowed to join the military, that is a long story, study the story of Dreyfus in France, Levy in the US.
On the middle aged the finest physicians were Muslims and Jews.
On the middle aged the finest physicians were Muslims and Jews.
basilfawlty89 · 36-40, M
@samueltyler2 I know about the Dreyfus Affair, we had to study it in high-school in reference to influences on Europe in reference to the Holocaust.
I don't know too much of the history of Antisemitism in the US, outside of the KKK.
I don't know too much of the history of Antisemitism in the US, outside of the KKK.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@basilfawlty89 it is more deep seated than the KKK.
sarabee1995 · 26-30, F
Israeli is a nationality. There are Jewish Israelis, Christian Israelis, Muslim Israelis and I'm sure more than a few atheist Israelis (and others).
Jewish is an ethnicity and a religion. There are ethnic Jews who are Jewish. There are ethnic Jews who are atheist. Etc.
Jewish is an ethnicity and a religion. There are ethnic Jews who are Jewish. There are ethnic Jews who are atheist. Etc.
I'm not hearing this... so this could be in a totally different logic than my thinking...
But I think religion, not geographical area, when I hear the term Jew.
But I think religion, not geographical area, when I hear the term Jew.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
I am sure you know that the Jewish religion traditionally began with the belief by a group of people formerly called Israelites accepting one god, a people led by Abraham.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@SinlessOnslaught are you watching the way some on the IS are attempting to dehumanize some of our population?
SinlessOnslaught · M
@samueltyler2 It's happening on a large scale from many groups.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@SinlessOnslaught more do from one group.
robb65 · 56-60, M
Citizens of Israel are "Israelis". Seventy something percent of Israelis are Jews, twenty something percent are not. And also not all Jews are Israelis.
A Jew is someone born to a Jewish mother, or someone who has officially converted. The different movements have different standards for what they recognize as an official conversion, but generally Orthodox Judaism only recognizes Orthodox conversions while other movements recognize converts from more observant movements but not converts from lesser observant movements. Just to be clear, anyone who sincerely wants to convert can convert to Judaism.
A Jew is someone born to a Jewish mother, or someone who has officially converted. The different movements have different standards for what they recognize as an official conversion, but generally Orthodox Judaism only recognizes Orthodox conversions while other movements recognize converts from more observant movements but not converts from lesser observant movements. Just to be clear, anyone who sincerely wants to convert can convert to Judaism.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@robb65 AFAIK? I don't recognize that acronym
robb65 · 56-60, M
@samueltyler2 As Far As I Know...
LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
A Jew is someone who follows the Jewish religion or, perhaps, has ancestors who were Jewish. No, everyone from Israel isn't a Jew -- Israel has a significant Arab population and also people from other religions.
SinlessOnslaught · M
@ChipmunkErnie I don't want to be quick to dismiss but that narrative raises a red flag for me.
SinlessOnslaught · M
@ChipmunkErnie SOMEHOW turned it to Arabic and then forgot what I said. 😑
ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
@SinlessOnslaught Care to explain?

SW-User
Not everyone who is from Israel is Jewish
They have Muslims who are Israeli and Christians too ..
They have Muslims who are Israeli and Christians too ..
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@SW-User of course.
TurtlePink · 22-25, F
I did not know this was a thing
SinlessOnslaught · M
@TurtlePink Yeah that's what I think to myself when I also hear people rejoicing because Iran is being bombed. 😆 Like EVERYBODY there shot at Americans.
TurtlePink · 22-25, F
@SinlessOnslaught all this violence just needs to stop. But I feel bad for those innocent people who probably wanted nothing to do with anything
SinlessOnslaught · M
@TurtlePink Yeah. ❤🩹 It's happening all the time
LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
Also, something else that's muddying the waters is that there are several ethnic groups under the Hebrew umbrella, that some people group together as Jews. So you've got ethnic Jews and religious Jews.
Dshhh · M
not all Jews are Israeli, in fact most are not
and there are Citizens of Israel, that are not Jewish
and many people with Jewish heritage do not practice the religion.
and there are Citizens of Israel, that are not Jewish
and many people with Jewish heritage do not practice the religion.
ArtieKat · M
The term which I think is only ever used perjoratively is "Zionist".
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@ArtieKat more humans died because of religion than any natural causes.
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samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@ArtieKat led by Teheran and it's accolades.
TheOneyouwerewarnedabout · 46-50, MVIP
the non goy...
smiler2012 · 61-69
@SinlessOnslaught israel is a country they get called jews as israel that is a country that typically follow the doctrine of the jewish faith . where other countries of the same region of the middle east are of muslim faith
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@smiler2012 it is often used as a denigrating term an attempt at dehumanizing an entire religion.
smiler2012 · 61-69
@samueltyler2 🤔well yes i suppose it is same as muslims are also castigated for religious doctrine but the jewish faith has alway had to endure this this bigotry even back to the old and new testaments
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@smiler2012 the history of the Jewish people can be summarized as this:
There were a people called the Jews
Some ruler arose and tried to kill them all.
There was a war, the Jews prevailed.
Then let us call this a miracle and give it a holiday name and a feast.
Repeat above.
There were a people called the Jews
Some ruler arose and tried to kill them all.
There was a war, the Jews prevailed.
Then let us call this a miracle and give it a holiday name and a feast.
Repeat above.
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Penny · 46-50, F
@LordShadowfire "used in a derogatory way"
LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
@Penny II Kings 16:6 doesn't sound very derogatory to me.
Penny · 46-50, F
@LordShadowfire wtf. maybe i a m misunderstanding the ops statement. or maybe you are misunderstanding something
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