Why the biblical atheist deny God exists.

Tell us how you know Ahora Mazda doesn't exist.
Tell us how you know Amaterasu doesn't exist.
Tell us how you know Fujin doesn't exist.
Tell us how you know Eight Immortals don't exist.
Tell us how you know Athena doesn't exist.
Tell us how you know Aries doesn't exist.
Tell us how you know Apollo doesn't exist.
Tell us how you know Estsanatlehi doesn't exist.
Tell us how you know Tsohanoai doesn't exist.
Tell us how you know Odin doesn't exist.
Tell us how you know Thor doesn't exist.
Tell us how you know Ra doesn't exist.
Tell us how you know Osiris doesn't exist.
Tell us how you know Gitche Manitou doesn't exist.
Tell us how you know Zeus doesn't exist.
Tell us how you know the other 5000+ gods and goddesses and spirits humans have worshiped don't exist.
Now tell us why the same reasoning doesn't apply to your favorite deity.

Human kind has invented many religions - Jewish, Christian, Islam, Hindu, Buddhist. There are the religions of Africa and those of the peoples of the Americas. And there is Wiccan, Celtic druid, and others. Can you really tell all these believers they are wrong and only YOUR religion is right?

FYI - Christians have fought and persecuted other religions and each other for centuries. During the middle-ages the Church was guilty of horrendous atrocities (burning people at the stake, torture, etc.) This persecution included Christians who just had slightly different views on Christian doctrine.

“Any kind of extreme in any religion is dangerous. It's just a way to control and violate the basic human rights of others. They diminish God in our world.”
― Eileen Anglin

“If a believer demands that I, as a nonbeliever, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect, but for my submission.”
― Flemming Rose

yrger/Loser

You seem to be obsessed with the idea, that rest of us are biblical Atheists. That our concept of god comes from that old book of fables.
Would you mind, clearing up, exactly what powers of creation your god used to do the job ?
The biblical god essentially willed everything into existence. Creating everything all at once more or less. Matter, gravity, the laws of physics, time and life . Apparently to accomplish some agenda. Which means preconceived plans for event in a future before time even existed. All of which means god is all powerful and all knowing and all controlling. In short, he is everything.
Now, if your god created the universe , including life. And is control of it all. How did he do it without the same powers and abilities ?
So far, you have refused to explain what your god’s motives are for creation and life ? You simply say he did it. You also say he invented love,
You refuse to go into morality as or any of the standard reasons religion has to offer. So what does that leave us ?
1) a single , spirit , self existing for no rational purpose
2) Has no knowledge of time or space. No awareness of anything outside its own ego.
3) somehow , decides to manufacture a universe, with powers of unknown nature, and origin. Which is literally the exact opposite of itself.
4) Makes the universe of infinite size, creating galaxies, stars, and planets. In which at least one has the capacity for human life. The others serve no practical use , and humans can’t interact with them.
5) it takes billions of years before life to become possible, and millions more for it to evolve to human form. Still no agenda known.
6) god still controls everything, and everyone. But, has no direct contact with creation. Or foreseeable future use for us before or after death.
7) No pattern, No motivation, No reason, No logic, No purpose, and No evidence of any of it.
It’s like, something came from nothing for no other reason to support your personal ignorance. You created god yourself. Just as I said.
No other possible answer.

So, how does this work for you ?
P.S. the Biblical god doesn’t fair any better.

I think the current estimate of different religions that have every existed is around 2000. So the difference between a believer and me is only one in 2000. A believer thinks that 1999 religions are wrong. I think 2000 are wrong. We are so close to agreement.

Hi atheists, are you hesitant to engage in a supposition, why the fear?

Here is the supposition: You and I we are rational and intelligent, we are curious* about everything, and we never know anything about a bible among Christians.

Being curious and intelligent, not like other living things, for examples: the cattle, the donkey, and yes the frog, we ask ourselves Did something or someone put us here on earth?

So, being rational and thus intelligent and being curious about everything, which everything includes who or what brought us into existence?

From my part, I say something or someone did put us into existence.

What about you, will you maintain that nothing and no one put us into existence, we just popped into existence from nothingness?!




*Recall that curiosity is the mother of invention - that includes discovery.





================

yrger · 80-89, M
Hi atheists, I see you all to be biblical atheists, because you all were previously fundamentalist bible Christians; but you all got tired of the biblical God - I can only imagine why.


Suppose you were never exposed to the bible, would you ever become atheists?


There are three ways man knows God exists:

1. By reasoning
2. By reading the bible (or the koran for Muslims)
3. By meditation

Prescind from the bible, try reasoning on where you and everything come from on ultimate terms, and you will also come to the existence of God, as the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

Hi Doc, you were definitely in past history a fundamentalist Bible Christian.

Your long list of what the Bible God did, gives the lie away.




DocSavage · M
yrger/Loser
Hi Doc, you are still bound to the biblical atheists' God of the Bible, so you are not connected with me, I am into the God as man with reason and intelligence knows Him to exist -Yrger

You seem to be obsessed with the idea, that rest of us are biblical Atheists. That our concept of god comes from that old book of fables.
Would you mind, clearing up, exactly what powers of creation your god used to do the job ?
The biblical god essentially willed everything into existence. Creating everything all at once more or less. Matter, gravity, the laws of physics, time and life . Apparently to accomplish some agenda. Which means preconceived plans for event in a future before time even existed. All of which means god is all powerful and all knowing and all controlling. In short, he is everything.
Now, if your god created the universe , including life. And is control of it all. How did he do it without the same powers and abilities ?
So far, you have refused to explain what your god’s motives are for creation and life ? You simply say he did it. You also say he invented love,
You refuse to go into morality as or any of the standard reasons religion has to offer. So what does that leave us ?
1) a single , spirit , self existing for no rational purpose
2) Has no knowledge of time or space. No awareness of anything outside its own ego.
3) somehow , decides to manufacture a universe, with powers of unknown nature, and origin. Which is literally the exact opposite of itself.
4) Makes the universe of infinite size, creating galaxies, stars, and planets. In which at least one has the capacity for human life. The others serve no practical use , and humans can’t interact with them.
5) it takes billions of years before life to become possible, and millions more for it to evolve to human form. Still no agenda known.
6) god still controls everything, and everyone. But, has no direct contact with creation. Or foreseeable future use for us before or after death.
7) No pattern, No motivation, No reason, No logic, No purpose, and No evidence of any of it.
It’s like, something came from nothing for no other reason to support your personal ignorance. You created god yourself. Just as I said.
No other possible answer.

So, how does this work for you ?

How Did the Universe Begin?

When you look up at the night sky, what do you see?
If it's a clear night, you might see hundreds of thousands of tiny points of light, too numerous to count. Some are planets, some are stars, and some are even galaxies! Where did all these cosmic objects come from?

In the 1920s in California, astronomer Edwin Hubble observed distant galaxies using an extremely powerful telescope . He made two mind-boggling discoveries.

First, Hubble figured out that the Milky Way isn’t the only galaxy. He realized that faint, cloud-like objects in the night sky are actually other galaxies far, far away. The Milky Way is just one of billions of galaxies.

Second, Hubble discovered that the galaxies are constantly moving away from each other. In other words, the universe is expanding. The biggest thing that we know about is getting bigger all the time.

A few years later, Belgian astronomer Georges Lemaître used Hubble‘s amazing discoveries to suggest an answer to a big astronomy question: How did the universe begin?

If the universe is always getting bigger, then long ago it was smaller. And long, LONG ago, it was much smaller. That means billions of years ago, everything in the universe was contained in a tiny ball that exploded! Wow!

This breakthrough idea later became known as the Big Bang!
The Big Bang was the moment 13.8 billion years ago when the universe began as a tiny, dense, fireball that exploded. Most astronomers use the Big Bang theory to explain how the universe began. But what caused this explosion in the first place is still a mystery.

So, what has happened since the Big Bang?

Since the Big Bang, the universe has been expanding. In the early years, everything was made of gas. This gas, mostly hydrogen and helium, expanded and cooled. Over billions of years, gravity caused gas and dust to form galaxies, stars , planets, and more.

The matter that spread out from the Big Bang developed into everything in the universe, including you. You are made of star stuff!

Astronomers have figured out that the universe is about 13 billion years old. (We’d better skip the candles on the birthday cake!) They have also determined, approximately, when different cosmic events happened, such as when our galaxy and our planet formed.


https://www.amnh.org/explore/ology/astronomy/how-did-the-universe-begin

Hi everyone, in particular atheists here:



The rational intelligent answer is NO, existence will never cease to exist, because there is the default situation that God exists as the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

If existence can cease altogether, then it has already ceased and we should not be here discussing God exists or not, because there would be no God either.

So the only entity existing in all situations of existence is God, the permanent self-existent spirit creator ad operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

Wherefore: on ultimate terms, God and existence or reality are identical, and anything that is not God is created by God, like man and the universe and everything transient.

Hi atheists, in the primordial situation there was nothing but God the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

Then God created love so that mankind with his reason and intelligence would love Him as He loves mankind because He created mankind.

Do you have a degree or certification which justifies that title? Because I'm Rosa the Goddess. Self declared, of course.

So now you agree , god must have had a creator too. Well, that’s a start.

Hi Doc, I did not say that my God is not the same God of the Bible, you are getting me wrong all the time.


I am telling you that there are three ways man can come to the existence of God:

1. By reasoning
2. By reading the Bible (or the Koran for Muslims)
3. By meditation

I know God to exist by num 1, reasoning.

You know God exists by mun 2, reading the Bible.

That is why I call you a biblical atheist.

Now, when you dare to use your reason and intelligence, you will come to God as the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

When you deny this God to exist, then you are not rationally and not intelligently correct, because you are not accustomed to reason intelligently.

So, I call you an illogical and un-intelligent atheist.

To be an atheist outside the Bible, you must give reasons how and why you deny God exists as the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient: but you don't do that at all, you just keep on and on with anger and hatred against God, period.


This is a test to detect whether you can reason or not.
Answer this question from me: Will existence cease to exist altogether? Yes or no.



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DocSavage · M
yrger/Loser

First answer my questions. If your god is not the same as the biblical god. How and why did he invent love for other life that would not exist for billions of years. And would take millions more to evolve into humans. Apparently ignoring the rest of the infinite universe, for one puny blue dot. If your got is self existing, he should have been a blank slate. No knowledge or inherent experience. No understanding of anything . Past, present, or future. Yet processing the power to create all of it from nothingness.
It is as I said, it’s as god was created for for that purpose. And nothing else.

You are out of your mind yrger I answered all your questions.
You forgot you’re dealing with Atheists. We don’t believe in gods to begin with. Did you really expect me to tell you who created the creator god that you created ? You made him up, ( you never proved anything ) just go back and work on the origin story . Use a little imagination ( you don’t have much, use it sparingly)
Humans have been creating gods for centuries, how hard can it be ?

I would say that’s CHECK MATE yrger. You lose, I win.

Hi LordSh, welcome back to my thread, that is a genuine compliment from you to me, appreciate it!



LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
You notice how it's been 23 hours since anybody but me replied to you? That's because you've systematically pissed off anybody who might have potentially given you a serious answer. I'm only here answering you because I get these pesky notifications, and at this point, I still find it mildly amusing to fuck with you. But honestly, you're not even worth it for the entertainment factor.

Don’t you find it strange that god should literally pop into existence out of nothing with only one purpose in life ?
Think about it, god has no other function, other than to set off the Big Bang, and set the universe in motion. It’s as if someone, or something created god for that exact reason, it’s like he lit the fuse, but didn’t build the bomb.
He was probably killed in the explosion.

Hi ViciD, you say: "The physical processes controlling evolution have always existed."

That is a gratuitous statement, where did you learn that - most likely in a dream.

Evolution is not the origin of life, it presupposes the existence of life, now go backward, and see if you can arrive at the very first step which is the beginning of life, and then ultimatley you will arrive at the entity that is self-existent, it is without beginning, but it gives beginning to everything and continues to operate the process until this self-existent entity has created humans who possess reason and intelligence from this self-existent agent.


Do you now see that there is an ultimate self-existent entity that gives existence to all other instances of existence?


If you don't accept this ultimate self-existent sourse of all non-self-existing realities, what is your explanation for all things which scientists investigate, but they never arrive at an ultimate explanation.


So, you seem to know science but science is all about things which have a beginning, and it does not say that the universe exists permanently.


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ViciDraco · 36-40, M
@yrger Let me clarify.

The physical processes controlling evolution have always existed. Those processes only operate under specific conditions. When the conditions were met, the processes could operate.

Such is the same as gravity and every rule of physics.

Hi everyone in particular atheists, read the following exchange between me Yrger the theist, and Kwk00, as follows:


yrger · 80-89, M
@Kwek00

You tell me, " ... you just accept that God did it all."

You are wrong, I think rationally and thus intelligently and arrive at the fact and the truth that God exists, as the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

Here, let you and me think rationally and intelligently:
1. Scientists tell us the universe has a beginning, so it needs a creator to get to exist. Do you accept that the universe according to scientists have a beginning?

(We will continue if you accept, otherwise you tell me that the universe is always existing, in which case you have to bring forth scientists who maintain that the universe has always been existing.)

--------------------

Kwek00 · 36-40, M
@yrger No... it didn't come from nothingness, I don't think anyone disagrees with that. And if they do, I would love to meet them and ask what their rational is.

I agree we have a mysterie here... so, if this fascinates you (or anyone else), what you should be doing is trying to figure it out and try to find the answer to your question. But you don't, you just accept that God did it all. I don't know why you do it? Could be because you were raised that way or lived in a culture where this idea is really prominent and not challenged in anyway. Could be you are lazy and don't want to do the leggwork and thus just invent an answer that you demand that other people try to proof to be false. Could be your ego just doesn't let you live with an unanswered question. What ever it is, it's not smart.

I don't mind, everyone may read our exchange. The sharper you are, the more I welcome it.

Hi atheists, I see you all to be biblical atheists, because you all were previously fundamentalist bible Christians; but you all got tired of the biblical God - I can only imagine why.


Suppose you were never exposed to the bible, would you ever become atheists?


There are three ways man knows God exists:

1. By reasoning
2. By reading the bible (or the koran for Muslims)
3. By meditation

Prescind from the bible, try reasoning on where you and everything come from on ultimate terms, and you will also come to the existence of God, as the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

Hi atheists, you still fear to do the supposition.


==================

yrger · 80-89, M
Hi atheists, are you hesitant to engage in a supposition, why the fear?

Here is the supposition: You and I we are rational and intelligent, we are curious* about everything, and we never know anything about a bible among Christians.

Being curious and intelligent, not like other living things, for examples: the cattle, the donkey, and yes the frog, we ask ourselves Did something or someone put us here on earth?

So, being rational and thus intelligent and being curious about everything, which everything includes who or what brought us into existence?

From my part, I say something or someone did put us into existence.

What about you, will you maintain that nothing and no one put us into existence, we just popped into existence from nothingness?!




*Recall that curiosity is the mother of invention - that includes discovery.





================

yrger · 80-89, M
Hi atheists, I see you all to be biblical atheists, because you all were previously fundamentalist bible Christians; but you all got tired of the biblical God - I can only imagine why.


Suppose you were never exposed to the bible, would you ever become atheists?


There are three ways man knows God exists:

1. By reasoning
2. By reading the bible (or the koran for Muslims)
3. By meditation

Prescind from the bible, try reasoning on where you and everything come from on ultimate terms, and you will also come to the existence of God, as the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

Here is my num 7 statement:
7. Then there was a situation in which the universe did not exist.


You VicDraco say:
"...the entire universe did exist but was condensed into an extremely small space that we have called The Singularity."

Please take notice of this phrase, was condensed.

You use what in grammar we call the third person passive anonymous, now who or what is this third person passive anonymous entity?

I tell you, it is God, the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of the universe and man and everything transient.


--------------------

ViciDraco · 36-40, M
Hi yrger. I pick number seven for where your argument goes off track. Your point 8 and 9 is not rational.

7. There was a point in time that the universe did not exist as we know it. Our best educated guess is that the entire universe did exist but was condensed into an extremely small space that we have called The Singularity. Several of our physical models work in ways that support this case but we are always looking for new evidence to deepen and clarify our understanding. As far as we know, the universe itself is permanent but simply changed in form.
8. We don't know what triggered The Singularity to expand, the event we call the big bang.
9. When we don't know something, that doesn't mean we can just make shit up. We have zero rational reason to inject God as an explanation for something we do not know.

@yrger in your dreams yrger you are no John Sunlight.

There are several examples in nature that support the idea.
1) Male ants or Bees. They exist for one purpose. To knock up the Queen.
One quickie, and she can produce an entire population. The males die soon after. No interaction, no operation within the nest.
2) Sea Turtles. They come ashore, drop a load of eggs in the sand. And from then on they offspring are on their own. They have no interaction with with their offspring ever again
So, in each case : you have creators that exist for one single function ,
To set things in motion. Without being “permanent “ life continues even when they themselves don’t. And no background microwave radiation.
All of which completely contradicts your conclusions about god’s existence.

yrger · 80-89, M
Do atheists love their mothers?

No, they don't love their mothers, and their mothers don't love them either, if mothers are also atheists.

Hahahahahahaha!


I propose that they all see a good psychiatrist, time for them to have a normal life, which consists of love, and joy, and courage, and sacrifice, and of course God, the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

This is a challenge to atheists and all who don't like God.

You guys don't know philosophy, in particular correct philososphy, that is why you don't think at all and don't write with precision.

Oh, you know philosophy?

Okay, without going to dictionaries, define what is philosophy in less than 75 words.

So yrger
You got anything else ? I’m still here, not going anywhere.
I would say, Atheists have a sensible reason for denying god, you have something better to add ?

Hi Chip, you are wrong because ". . . the ABSENCE of a god . . . " is nothingness, and nothingness is nothingness.

Your error consists in imagining that nothingness is somethingness - in a situation where you suppose there is nothingness prevailing, then you already pop out of all existence, it is you are like Lawrence Krauss who takes nothingess to be somethingness, which is absolutely absurd.


----------------------

ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
@yrger
The rational intelligent answer is YES, existence will cease to exist, because there is the default situation that God DOES NOT exist as the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

If existence can cease altogether, then it has NOT already ceased and we SHOULD here discussing God exists or not, because it needs explanation to the believers of their irrationality.

So the only entity existing in all situations of existence is the ABSENCE of a god as the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

Wherefore: on ultimate terms, God and existence or reality are NON-IDENTICAL CONCEPTS, and anything that is not God is reality, and anything regarding a god, goddess, or other supernatural entity is a creation of the irrational side of man's mind.

Hi ViciD, you tell me:
"If I ask you why you steal candy from children and you say that you do not steal candy from children, I cannot then accuse you of not knowing what steal means and say that you do not know crime."


You still don't know philosophy, for if you know philosophy, you will ask me thus:

"If I ask you why you ultimately steal candy from children and you ultimately say that you do not ultimately steal candy from children, I cannot then accuse you ultimately of not knowing what steal means and say that ultimately you do not know crime."



You seem to know science, so you know about the cosmic microwave background radiation (if you don't know about the cosmic microwave background radiation, read up on it).


Now, scientists conclude that the universe has a beginning.

If you know philosophy you will ask the scientists: ultimately who or what brought about the universe because it has a beginning?




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ViciDraco · 36-40, M
@yrger You asked me who or what ultimately invented or operates something that was not invented and is not operated.

You cannot ask nonsense questions and then accuse people of not understanding terms or subjects.

If I ask you why you steal candy from children and you say that you do not steal candy from children, I cannot then accuse you of not knowing what steal means and say that you do not know crime.

Hi everyone and in particular atheists here, what is the fallacy of the socalled circular logic?


First, it is not a fallacy, except to atheists who do not think and act correctly.


Let us suppose that a stranger states: "The dog is similar to a wolf." Then he turns his statement around and says: "The wolf is similar to a dog."

"The dog is similar to a wolf."
"The wolf is similar to a dog."

That according to atheists who do not know how to think and to act correctly, that is the fallacy of circular logic, because the two statements do not state anything new.


Hi readers, you see, the stranger is first describing the wolf or the dog, so that another stranger who does not know what a wolf lools like or a dog looks like, he can now use the description of the dog or the wolf, now go to the objectve reality outside his mind to look for the wolf or the dog, having now known what a wolf or a dog looks like, i.e. look for the concrete existence of the dog or the wolf.


The error of atheists is that they don't go to the objcetive reality to look for evidence of God in the say neighborhood, where we can see babies and roses which are ultimately created by God.





================

ViciDraco · 36-40, M
@yrger This has been explained to you before in other posts. Just because your logic is circular does not mean I am going to debate in circles and answer the same questions again and again.

Hi Doc, you are not rational wherefore not intelligent at all.

Do you at all read what your write, and see whether you are rational or not?

You declare: " . . . nothing else exist or can exist until he ( God ) creates it."

Yes, but there is God existing in the primordial situation when He has not created anything yet.

That is why I keep telling you and all atheists, that God is the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.




-------------------

DocSavage · M
Logic requires that when a rational intelligent human -Yrger

yrger/Loser
What has logic have to do with any god ? A self existing god, that lives in a spirit realm without time and space would have no knowledge, experience, to apply logic to anything, because nothing else exist or can exist until he creates it.

Hi all atheists, you are all intellectual cowards, so fearful to do a supposition, you guys can't think at all!



yrger · 80-89, M
Hi atheists, you are all cowards for fearing to do this supposition, though you have a brain, and you are not like cattle, donkeys, and frogs.


Hi all readers, see what intellectual cowards atheists are!

Shame on them all!




yrger · 80-89, M
Hi atheists, you still fear to do the supposition.


==================

yrger · 80-89, M
Hi atheists, are you hesitant to engage in a supposition, why the fear?

Here is the supposition: You and I we are rational and intelligent, we are curious* about everything, and we never know anything about a bible among Christians.

Being curious and intelligent, not like other living things, for examples: the cattle, the donkey, and yes the frog, we ask ourselves Did something or someone put us here on earth?

So, being rational and thus intelligent and being curious about everything, which everything includes who or what brought us into existence?

From my part, I say something or someone did put us into existence.

What about you, will you maintain that nothing and no one put us into existence, we just popped into existence from nothingness?!




*Recall that curiosity is the mother of invention - that includes discovery.

Hi ViciDraco, please explain this line from you
You use the word conservation, I ask you, ultimately who or what is conseving energy?


==============

ViciDraco · 36-40, M
@yrger

and see if you can arrive at the very first step which is the beginning of life, and then ultimatley you will arrive at the entity that is self-existent, it is without beginning, but it gives beginning to everything and continues to operate the process until this self-existent entity has created humans who possess reason and intelligence from this self-existent agent.

That is not how logic works. That is not how reasoning works. You are taking massive leaps from a domain you are aware of, through territory you have no information about, and arriving at a made up destination that makes you comfortable.

My ultimate conclusion is that there is no ultimate creator because nothing was created. I have just as much information to support my claim as you have to support yours. In fact, our best current understandings of the conservation of energy and matter supports my claim and refutes yours.

There is no objectively correct truth because God is the quintessential self-fulfilling prophecy.

God exists for theists and believers BECAUSE they believe, and God does not exist for atheists and non-believers BECAUSE they don’t believe.

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

yrger · 80-89, M
Hi everyone and in particular atheists here, what is the fallacy of the socalled circular logic?


First, it is not a fallacy, except to atheists who do not think and act correctly.


Let us suppose that a stranger states: "The dog is similar to a wolf." Then he turns his statement around and says: "The wolf is similar to a dog."

"The dog is similar to a wolf."
"The wolf is similar to a dog."

That according to atheists who do not know how to think and to act correctly, that is the fallacy of circular logic, because the two statements do not state anything new.


Hi readers, you see, the stranger is first describing the wolf or the dog, so that another stranger who does not know what a wolf lools like or a dog looks like, he can now use the description of the dog or the wolf, now go to the objectve reality outside his mind to look for the wolf or the dog, having now known what a wolf or a dog looks like, i.e. look for the concrete existence of the dog or the wolf.


The error of atheists is that they don't go to the objcetive reality to look for evidence of God in the say neighborhood, where we can see babies and roses which are ultimately created by God.

Hi everyone, in particular atheists, read the exchange below, then explain how and why on ultimate terms we are existing.



CorvusBlackthorne · 46-50, M
@yrger The total lack of evidence leaps to mind...

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yrger · 80-89, M
@CorvusBlackthorne

Lack of evidence you say, what about babies and roses in the neighborhood, and also you and I we exist and are rational intelligent living entities, unlike the cattle, the donkeys, and the frogs.


This is how we are evidence of God existing:

1. We did not create ourselves.
2. Our parents gave birth to us.
3. Their parents gave birth to them.
4. We can continue along this line on and on and on.
5. There was a time when no humans existed.
6. There was a time no living entities existed.
7. Then there was a situation in which the universe did not exist.
8. Now we exist and the universe exists.
9. Therefore: God exists - God who is the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.


Please atheists, explain how and why you and I are existing.

Hi atheists, tell me why you deny God exists, of course you have to first define what is God.

I am Yrger the theist, and here is my definition of God:
"God is the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient."

No idea. As I have been saying , god is a catalyst. It’s what set things in motion. Caused the universe to expand to it current state from a singularity, whatever. Don’t know . But, what I do not see is where you concluded it was a conscious, deliberate act, by a self existing, permanent, self aware , spiritual being. You have refused to explain that aspect of your description. Yet you seem to think anyone who is skeptical of it is un-intelligent. Did you really think that would go unchallenged ?

Hi RedBaron, I must commend you for you do care to think rationally but sad, not intelligently - so your attempt at rational thinking was at most fallacious.

Or you got your ideas about God from a kindergarten kid.

Consider these words from you:

"I define god . . . (as) some combination with human conscience, not a divine being with human form."

You claim God to have a human conscience, but not a human form.


Please think again, but this time with genuine reason and intelligence.



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RedBaron · M
@yrger I can only answer the last part of that. I define god abstractly, as the physical laws governing nature and the universe in some combination with human conscience, not a divine being with human form.

Furthermore, I believe that the biblical account of creation is a myth. God did not create the universe and the beings within it. Instead, everything evolved to the point of human civilization. Religions formed and people actually invented god and the creation myth to explain how everything came about.

Intellectually, that makes a lot of sense when you think about it.

Hi ViciD, can you prove tthat ultimately the universe does not have a beginning, but it changes form only?

Suppose I ask you, ultimately who operates the uinverse so that it changes its forms etc etc etc .


Now, you admit that ". . . (you) do not know . . . (You) do not have any information from that time."

If you know philosophy you will know, so learn to think philosophically.


Try thinking philosophically and answer this question from me: "Is there a self-existent entity or not, yes or no?"






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ViciDraco · 36-40, M
@yrger

They do not conclude that. They conclude that the universe in the form that we recognize it had a beginning. And that prior to that event, the universe was in a different firm that we presently presume was a singularity.

Ultimately the universe was not created. Ultimately the universe did not begin, it changed in form.

If your question is who or what caused that form to change, my answer is that we do not know. We do not have any information from that time.

Hi Doc, God invented love, in particular God as the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.


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DocSavage · M
@yrger /Loser
I see. Now you’re claiming that theists invented Love does that also include morality, and ethics too ?
Okay, so tell me, do you also believe in the Devil ? Not the biblical Devil, but an embodiment of evil, bent on corrupting all that god stands for . And if such a being exist, why isn’t god doing anything about it ? After all you claim he’s operating everything from the start. The Devil can’t exist, unless god created him, and controls him.
Sounding very biblical to me. Do you actually have any idea what you believe in , or are just saying anything in a pathetic need for attention?