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Why has 'socialism' become a dirty word ?

4meAndyou · F Best Comment
Socialists of the past would hang their heads in shame to see the people masquerading as socialists NOW. I speak from the perspective of the USA.

"Socialism" today has been redefined by corrupt politicians, globalists and international cartels who wish to deceive our youth into believing they will be given all sorts of "free" stuff in a "New Reality".

This new So called socialism, which is anything BUT true socialism, has become a vehicle for power whores like Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, AOC, Bernie Sanders, and Ilhan Omar to infect socialism with capitalism in order to use the enormous funds of trillion dollar corporations to grab power.

These power whores represent the interests of China, Iran, Drug Cartels, and many other enemies of freedom. With their forked tongues, they lie to the American people about their motives, and try to change their own history to make themselves seem more pure...but it cannot be done.

They [b]try[/b] to re-educate and brainwash our children...take away our ability to defend ourselves in the midst of the chaos which THEY have created...take away our ability to worship our God...and remove our jobs in the interests of globalists goals...and bully and terrorize the populace in major cities...in some cases so they can buy up all the best real estate...cheap, while the populace flees.

In order to do this, they have defunded the police so we no longer have our traditional protections, refuse the assistance of the federal government, set fire to businesses and then refuse to allow the fire engines in to put out the fires...and the politicians who support and enable this are asking us to disbelieve the evidence of our own eyes. They ask us to ignore the dead children killed in the streets and by bullets inside their homes, dead while lying in their beds, and none of them will stand up publicly and disavow the people responsible.

They have the blood of children on their hands, and yet aholes will still stand before us and publicly declare that THEY must be elected...because it's all about the CHILDREN. Which ones, Kamala? The aborted babies? The dead ones? Is it about Legend? Or is it about the criminals who have been deliberately released from jail to prey upon them?

Their agenda could not be more obvious. Power. Votes.

They use groups like BLM, Antifa, and many, many others to bully and intimidate the populace so that they can grab power, create a totalitarian state with a huge central government, and put their boots to our necks.

This is a strategy used by the Communists of the past. Create Chaos and disorder, and then grab power in the confusion that follows.

Grab power after creating fear...fear to leave your house...fear to go to the voting places...and it is this fear they will USE to corrupt the carefully constructed voting practices of the United States.

The power whores will USE this virus, and use the fear they have created, to enact and employ fraudulent voting methods worthy of the ancient Tammany Hall.

The power whores who peddle "socialism" as a form of fraudulently "benevolent" totalitarianism are traitors to their nation. Like Joe Biden, they have SOLD our people to the Chinese and to Iran.
Valentine · M
@4meAndyou Wow. Just wow. 🤗
Nimbus · M
@4meAndyou You're welcome :)
@4meAndyou Do Democrats actually claim to be socialists?
I thought it was only Republicans, conservatives and the alt-right that called them that.

HoraceGreenley · 56-60, M
Because Socialism requires losing the individual's dignity for the collective
@JimboSaturn I have a disability that is minor now but I had about 20 surgeries by the age of 18. My parents would be bankrupt if we lived in the US and my dad had not been in the military.
@JimboSaturn Yeah but Austrian and Chicago school people only read the first chapter of Smith and Marx. lol
JimboSaturn · 51-55, M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow yes Friedman for example
TexChik · F
Because it contradicts the principles upon which this country was founded . A government of the people, by the people, and for the people can’t tolerate socialism where the government supersedes the people and freedom .
Nimbus · M
@TexChik Great answer!
Carissimi · 70-79, F
I agree with @Nimbus, it is a great answer. @TexChik
TexChik · F
@Carissimi Thank you ! 😊
Nimbus · M
@AbbeyRhode Awwww, that's the new Cadbury's, American owned.
It was awesome a long, long time ago :)
AbbeyRhode · F
@Nimbus Still better than Hershey's. :)
Nimbus · M
@AbbeyRhode Mmmmmmmh, having not tried Hershey lately I dunno.
I haven't had Cadbury's since the Americans changed the recipe, not to my taste.
Budwick · 70-79, M
It was ALWAYS a dirty word.
Socialism has always sucked.
That's why the democrats like it so much.
@DukeOfEarle Watch the video I posted below. You might actually learn something.
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow I don’t need to watch your Communist propaganda. You’ve once again failed to convince anyone of anything. So what’s it like to log on here every day and utterly fail? 😂 Still laughing at you.
Socialism - collectivism, for the greater good etc is where a few people think they know better than everybody else at everything. A few people think they know how to run the entire economy - exactly what needs to be produced and at what quantity and price. A few people think they know exactly what job and profession you should do, what you should be taught in school, who you should associate with and what your own values should be.

In a free society people are responsible for their own lives and take decisions they believe are best for them. In a free economy the global mass of people decide what is produced and quantities etc - this makes sense because people know what they want and need and it leads to a better allocation of goods and services so supermarket shelves don't end up empty etc (which is a feature of socialist countries - they always lack even basics!) Think Soviet Union, NAZI party in Germany, DPROC, Cuba, Venezuela etc. Socialism has a dirty history from start to now has killed and impoverished millions, it's a rotten, antiquated system where the state plays God. It's not just a dirty word it's a dirty system.
JimboSaturn · 51-55, M
@similarexperience Again that is communism , not socialism.
JimboSaturn · 51-55, M
@basilfawlty89 Like Picturesofabettertomorrow said, this is cold wary anti-communist propaganda. They got so scare of the Soviets the saw communism everywhere.
@JimboSaturn It is actually a simplistic version of Leninism. Lenin believed the most practical way to implement socialism was to nationalize things under a government run by a vanguard party which would oversee the transition from capitalism,to socialism and eventually to communism. The plan was also phase out the government as certain aspects of it no longer became necessary. It was literally the first theory on a government that was intended to bring about it's own obsolescence.
Socialism looks good backed by capitalist tax payer hand outs..

Take the jobs away.. see how long the freebies they think will last forever lasts..
Miram · 31-35, F
@Mandalorian This is interesting. I did not realize that people quote from the bible in favor of capitalism.
@Miram It is very common, especially among American fundamentalist conservatives...
@Nimbus Another great quote from "Dementia Ronald"...

...yeah..."Reaganomics" was a real gas!
MrBrownstone · 46-50, M
When the people fear government there is tyranny. When government fears the people there is liberty.
@MrBrownstone "People who like quotes love meaningless genralizations."

Graham Greene.
MrBrownstone · 46-50, M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow thanks for your opinion. And using a quote yourself
@MrBrownstone It is a bit meta but for the most part he is not wrong.
Deserthiker · 61-69, M
It’s never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. Ever worked for hard working people Who want to make a better life. It rewards the lazy and eliminates competition.
I’m sure it functions in less populated and simple societies to a point, but not in a very populous, extremely complicated society like say the USA.
Plus is a person is an admitted socialist and believes in it, perfect for them.
Not for me,. I got to where I am from a very bad place, a very poor place. I have had a very rough but full life. And have worked hard. I want to keep what I have earned. I don’t want higher taxes, I like all the amazing choices I have and I am very suspicious of what would become an even bigger and controlling government than we already have. Maybe I’m selfish. There are people I grew up with who chose not to work hard, and are still where I last saw them and depend on the government, depend on people like me.
There are other things but basically that’s why I think it’s a bad word.
Just my opinion.
@Deserthiker Your personal anecdotes don't change the facts or that those are cliches.

Look it up. There are debtors prisons in the south.


Also nice bait and switch. Nominal tax rates don't mean anything especially when the wealthiest pay capital gains not income taxes.

There are no politicians pushing socialism in the US and hasten been since FDR. The US carried out one of the most effective political purges in modern history.

Look into it. Most of the choices are smoke and mirrors and predefined by those in power.

And maxing out debt is not owning anything.

A friend of mine from Croatia mentioned that growing up he saw all the cool stuff people had on American sitcoms. What they didn't tell you is it is all owned by the bank.
Deserthiker · 61-69, M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow If people do not pay fines they are in contempt of court. They can go to jail. No debtor prisons.
The wealthiest 1% pay almost 40% of the total income taxes. That is a fact. Income tax. Ok someone is paying that 40%. It’s not the 50% who pay nothing. It’s not the rest of us. If it’s not the top 1% wealthiest then it must be some rich leprechauns because the money is still coming from somewhere.
The socialists leaders in the USA Today are all wealthy, good for them, but socialism will not affect their lifestyles. Their social reform will cost too much. They say tax the rich more. All the rich in America don’t have enough money. Who is left to bring in the income. The 50% of Americans who pay no income tax. Do you think they will be happy.
Croatia????? Please.
I wrote earlier, I worked hard. Even retired I still own a business. I came from nothing, first generation American.
I’ve paid Off my homes, all my vehicles, my razor, No bank owns anything of mine. All my cool shit is new and mine.
Same goes for my circle of friends. Some still owe on their $60000 pickup trucks but I don’t condemn them for financing a bad ass truck.
I’ll agree with you about the cliches.
Everything I’ve said is a cliche, I admit what I say lacks original thinking. All cliches. All stereotypes about the USA. Not original because my personal success story is not a fluke, it is not original. I admit this. My experiences are repeated and have been repeated a million times In the USA. Our system gives everyone the opportunity to work hard and achieve whatever success they seek.
A cliche or stereotype can be very true
Nimbus · M
Adstar · 56-60, M
Because socialism leads to the loss of freedoms and the loss of economic prosperity.. Socialism sux plain and simple.. It never works in the long term and leads to a Venezuelan or Zimbabwe style collapse..
@Adstar Okay. First off just repeating my criticism of you is not a valid argument of anything. Repeating Fox News soundbites uncritically doesn't make you look like a genius either.

They are capitalist countries so they are by definition not socialist nations. Keep up.

By your definition you could call the Democrats and the Liberal Party of Canada marxist which is absurd.

That is rich coming from someone who has drunk the Fox News propaganda koolaid.

Good job projecting.
Adstar · 56-60, M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow You ignorant libtard, i an not even an American so i have NEVER Watched Fox news in my entire life... talk about projecting.. You hypocritical brain washed tool...

Talking to an ideologically possessed person like you is as talking to a brick wall.. people like you have to go through your own personal socialist experiment to experience the devastation for yourself before you will change.. Wow your near 40 years old and your still talk like a naive leftist who has just left university after having your brain dumbed down by lefitst professors.. Pathetic..
@Adstar Wow. Really going with childish name calling?

I am not American either but your views are straight out of the mouth of Sean Hannity so it was a very logical assumption.

And again more 50 year old cliches.
Rhodesianman · 56-60, M
Because its a lovely pipe dream but in reality would never work . We are the ones stopping it because human nature being what it is we are selfish , greedy people when it comes down to it and never happy no matter how much we have we always want more . If real socialism were to exist we would all have to change our ways because that would mean we would all have to be equal in every way .There would be an end to rich posh people and an end to the haves and have nots etc .That would mean just taking UK as an example the queen and the windsor family living in an ordinary house all working earning an average wage being the average family like everyone else . Nice dream reality no way.
@Rhodesianman Agreed. With any political economic system you still have the "haves" and the "have nots". You still have the fleecers and the sheep. The sheep are just easier to fleece under socialism.
Rhodesianman · 56-60, M
@puck61 yep
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Nimbus · M
@puck61 Good point.
Good summary.
greenmountaingal · 70-79, F
For some of my personal experiences with it (and communism), please read my personal story, which is my Featured story under my Profile. Socialists and communists are some of the most messed up people in the world.
Nimbus · M
SW-User
@greenmountaingal Many people that have lived under it, run from it.
Lickitysplit · 70-79, M
Okay, I see a lot of different understandings of the meaning of socialism. Different definitions. The fact is, I REALLY don't care how you define it, or which version of it you support and which you do not support. Socialism of any stripe is incompatible with the US Constitution, our Bill of Rights, or our historical culture. I want nothing to do with it, I oppose it rigorously, and I will fight it with everything I have. Oh, one more thing -- I do believe in providing a "safety net" to those who no fault of their own are not capable of supporting themselves, but ONLY to those.
wildbill83 · 36-40, M
@Lickitysplit agreed. There's nothing wrong with "charity". But taking from those who earned it to give to those who didn't is no different than theft, especially when used for things people don't really need...

I'm pretty certain many would agree that we didn't work all our lives so our tax dollars could be spent a bunch of lowlifes to get free abortions...
Lickitysplit · 70-79, M
@wildbill83 I for one agree with you completely. There is nothing "charitable" about the Government taking from some to give to others. It is no better than Government sanctioned theft.
MrBrownstone · 46-50, M
Because it’s not democracy.
@basilfawlty89 Macron is also nominally a socialist but that never comes up.
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This message was deleted by its author.
chrisCA · M
Many people don't really know the meaning of Socialism. They get their education from talk show hosts.
Nimbus · M
@chrisCA Good point.
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wildbill83 · 36-40, M
Because some of us fear big government.
Nimbus · M
@MorbidCynic The bigger it becomes the less efficient it is.
Could it be the millions of ppl that stave to death ... everytime it’s tried?
@MrBrownstone Ah yes. You can never waste an opportunity to support Donny's persecution complex and Qanon conspiracies.

You are really digging yourself in a hole.
MrBrownstone · 46-50, M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow [image deleted]
@MrBrownstone Nice completely irrelevant and just functionally stupid tangent. And if you don't understand the difference you won't be bright enough to understand the answer. TFG.
Driver2 · M
Because it’s responsible for millions of deaths and misery
It’s a failure
Other than that it’s fine
Harriet03 · 41-45, F
@Driver2 That's Communism!!
Nimbus · M
@Driver2 👍
cherokeepatti · 61-69, F
It’s code for Marxism
cherokeepatti · 61-69, F
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow They haven’t revealed themselves by name yet. They know better or they wouldn’t attempt to infiltrate local governments.
@cherokeepatti That doesn't even make sense. And there is literally no evidence to back that up.

This makes about as much sense as Alex Jones's illuminati silliness.
Nimbus · M
@cherokeepatti Code makes things complicated usually.
Because hardly anyone knows what it means, including people who support it. When a conservative uses it, they mean “anything to the left of Ronald Reagan.”

Socialism is defined as the nationalization of private industry. You can also socialize specific aspects of society. For example, in the US, we have a socialized military and socialized law enforcement.
@LeopoldBloom This is mostly right although your idea of socialism is based more on the Leninist idea o that socialism should be implemented by the government doing more stuff with the government being a vanguard party which has some merits. Worker owned and operated co-operatives are also a socialist idea that goes against the more top down hierarchy. Personally I think a mix of both is the way to go.


Fun fact, the welfare state was invented by a conservative right winger to basically counter socialist revolution. See Otto Von Bismark.
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow I find the ideas of Murray Bookchin to be very attractive, but you're right, it probably requires a combination of top down and bottom up. Too bad Rojava didn't last, it would have been interesting to see how it developed.
@LeopoldBloom Murray Bookchin definitely had some interesting ideas. As for Rojava it is still around, they just lost alot of ground to the Turks because as usual the US decided the Kurds are expendable. Everyone there was expecting this. This is not even remotely a surprise to the people there. The Russians have certainly screwed up Erdogan's plans for the region.
SW-User
Media tycoons who control the press and don't like paying either personal or corporate tax have over the last 50 years continually drummed in that socialism is removal of freedom etc...

However most of us on here live in a socialist state in some way or other...

UK NHS is probably the most obvious socialist icon hugely supported by most people. We have state education largely and university education whilst funded through student loans is essentially still direct stare funding. 75% of loans will never be paid back. Recently in the covid-19 pandemic we've seen wholesale socialist policies by a Tory government, paying staff wages, nationalisation of railway companies, direct subsidy to businesses from government to keep going... Hardly free market in any way.

Look through Europe you'll generally find that healthcare is state funded, most railways too, state ownership of companies like German DB railways who incidentally run all freight on UK railways and many buses in UK.

Even the USA has a nationalised railway system AMTRAK.
@SW-User That's a long thread in itself. When does practical collectivism become socialism? We need to pitch in to help "the state" provide many services, and it is the duty of the strong to protect the weak. It's yen and yang. We are all individualist and collectivist to one extent or the other.
What is proportionate, and who sets the bar?
TeirdalinFirefall · 31-35, M
I grew up in San Francisco before moving to Oregon, and rather hate what it became.
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjTOm9roetg]
HoraceGreenley · 56-60, M
@TeirdalinFirefall I don't blame you one bit.
Nimbus · M
Miram · 31-35, F
They don't understand that it's been partially incorporated in most of the world in varying degrees for a very long time. You all have mixed economies.

Lot of people only think in binary. Bad, good..It's easier to appeal to them by demonizing any form of change in a way that associate it to prior failures or evils. They need to feel protected even if the threat is an illusion.
iamelijah · 26-30, M
@Miram You summarize it very well. ☝️
JimboSaturn · 51-55, M
@Miram Yes! I'm a capitalist. Some things are good better run by the government and some aren't. I believe that the choice should be pragmatic in nature not ideological.
Elessar · 26-30, M
Because 3/4 of the people use it without even knowing what it means, similarly to "antifa/scism", "democracy", "liberal", "leftwing", "leftist", "conservative", and another few.

* Edit: Leaving only the ones that are not understood and perceived as "dirty".
@Elessar This is also why polls based on self identification are almost always garbage because the majority don't even understand the label they stick on their chest.
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Harriet03 · 41-45, F
@Lickitysplit Most of the civilised world practices some form of democratic socialism.
Nimbus · M
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Lickitysplit According to the communists Socialism is a step on the way to true communism. The USSR realized it wasn't 'perfectly communist' enough so it used the word socialist. Of course socialism is a big tent and it includes the likes of Hitler and Mussolini and Canada's New Democratic Party.
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@PainfulTruth [image deleted]Socialism is just Communism in a skirt.
I'm not sure that it is, except to those who are not in favour of publicly funded social safety nets.

Socialism now bears no resemblance to its historical roots in Marxism - but the right love to characterise it as some kind of communist dictatorial agenda. The modern version incorporates democracy. It could still be regarded as having a general policy of "from each according to ability, to each according to need," but this is softened into a form that can work within a re-regulated form of capitalism with a social and environmental conscience. It would regulate to remove the laws that permit psychopathic behaviours in big business. It would not stop companies from making profits, but a greater share would go to the workers who produce that wealth. At least - that's how I understand it.
On the other hand - there are hundreds of forms of socialism, some so divergent that they're not even on the spectrum from centre to far left.

There are right-wing think tanks. I believe they are responsible for the media policies that promote the demonisation of the left and liberal agendas.
They don't work in secret - like conspiracies - but openly, publically.
Some examples include the: American Enterprise Institute, Ludwig von Mises Institute, RAND Corporation, Hoover Institution, Manhattan Institute for Policy Research, Heartland Institute, Discovery Institute, Acton Institute and many others.
They are funded by big business, international business cartels and private billionaires. They employ top-ranking right-wing intellectuals to do research and come up with ways of promoting capitalist agendas and sabotaging leftist politics.

There are also leftist, centrist and specialist think tanks - but sometimes I think the left are not doing a very good job. We should not sink to the same levels of name calling.
Rather, we should be explaining how the policies work, and showing the examples of success in other countries.
Lickitysplit · 70-79, M
@hartfire Capitalists do not oppose the "Social Safety Net." Many capitalists privately support privately funded social safety nets. I am an avid capitalist. I believe that as a wealthy nation with great resources, we as a nation must take care of those who are not capable of taking care of themselves. These include people who are aged, severely handicapped; those too ill or infirm to care for themselves; those who through no fault of their own cannot support themselves.

The social safety net should not include those who chose not to avail themselves of the free education our society provides. It should not include those who repeatedly father or mother children they are unable to support.

The US definitely has implemented "socialist" types of programs, social security, medicare, Medicaid, and various "social welfare" programs. I do not advocate, and most capitalists do not advocate doing away with these programs. Rather, we believe that the size, complexity, and power of government at all levels must be checked. We believe that the powers of the US Federal Government must be limited only to those powers enumerated in the US Constitution. I know this is not an original thought but it is true none-the-less: Any government that is powerful enough to give you everything you want, also is powerful enough to take everything you have.
@Lickitysplit Thanks for your reply. I can't tell you how much I appreciate its polite and factual tone compared to some of the deliberately nasty language that is so prevalent on this site.

I see pros and cons in both private and publicly funded safety nets. Inefficiency, fraud and corruption seems common to both. This is part of the fallibility of human nature. I think we need to invent better ways of preventing it.

If this site is an example of what public education produces, then it is operating at a very low standard. The spelling, grammar and vocabulary wouldn't pass at K6 level. Few users here seem to understand the differences between fact, logic, belief and opinion, and few show a willingness to research or solve problems. I regard these as the most essential skills of a sound education.

As for people breeding when they can't take care of their kids - this is quite a complex issue. Most people's IQ clusters around the 100 mark, which is not very high at all - it's just enough for independence and a modicum of practicality providing there is enormous help from the wider society. 50% of people fall below the 100 mark. That means that those above will always be carrying the rest. But a good education can help improve all mental skills.

The WHO has found that if women have access to good free education and medicine, the birth rate drops to 1.5 children per couple within one generation. It is the highest predictor of improved economic growth and standard of living.
Nimbus · M
@hartfire 👍
About the same time "Trump Supporter" was synonymous with the KKK[image deleted]
@puck61 And you are doing everything you can to make sure the meaning of those words are permanently corrupted. Look in the mirror.
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow It's okay. I am satisfied knowing how wrong you are. You don't have to push the issue. See ya when the smoke clears.
@puck61 Lol. Says the guy whose "fearless leader" is literally destroying your country and blaming everyone else.

I am sorry you live outside objective reality.
greenmountaingal · 70-79, F
Because of all the dirty deeds that have been done in its name.
Nimbus · M
@greenmountaingal Good point.
SW-User
In America it always has been.
Nimbus · M
@SW-User 👍
HairbrushDiva · 31-35, F
Nimbus · M
Because most of the people who throw it around have no idea what it means. It is easy to throw something around as an insult if you don't care about the actual definition.
Nimbus · M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow I'm sure that happens.
Nimbus · M
Nimbus · M
@wildbill83 Winston should know! :)
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@SW-User Sounds about right.
iamelijah · 26-30, M
Lies about freedom and equality on their people.
Nimbus · M
@iamelijah 👍
iamelijah · 26-30, M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Both of them are. The only slighest difference between them are socialism use force or violent directly on their people and less rich people (mostly who works to the government, elitists) but capitalism everyone nearly can be rich (gotta work or born to be rich) and capitalist didn't use force. More about money, if there is money, there is way.
@iamelijah Wow. This is so divorced from reality it is almost funny. This is nice propaganda but not reality. The capitalist company is literally an absolute dictatorship. And anyone who says "do as I say or starve" is not coercive is delusional.
FloorGenAdm · 51-55, M
Because some can't pronounce it right. 🗣️ 🤬
Nimbus · M
SW-User
Same time communism did?
Nimbus · M
@SW-User 'bout right.
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnVQ7UKNr1o&feature=emb_title]
@DukeOfEarle I get it. Learning = bad.
Nimbus · M
MaryJanine · 61-69, F
Because the Republicans and anyone else who supports their candidate for President like to use that word to describe anyone who supports the opposition.
Lickitysplit · 70-79, M
@MaryJanine Actually you have it reversed. We oppose candidates because they support socialist policies and anti-capitalism, anti-constitutionalism.
MaryJanine · 61-69, F
@Lickitysplit Are you talking about Mr. President? I heard those speeches last night and every one of them smacked of those qualities. We have been lied to right and left during the last Presidency. I'm sorry to say, but our current White House leader can't get everything he wants because it occurs to him.
Harriet03 · 41-45, F
America has highjacked & misinterpreted it, for political purposes!!
Nimbus · M
@Harriet03 [quote]highjacked & misinterpreted it, for political purposes[/quote]
That along with disputing the source and ad honimem attacks is the staple excuse against many a dispute :)
cycleman · 61-69, M
the spirit of today is to make any word to be dirty.
Nimbus · M
@cycleman 👍
Harmonium1923 · 51-55, M
Because Republicans don’t know what it means and use it as a general insult for any policy supported by Democrats. In fact, many of their own policies, from pandemic checks to farm subsidies, are much nearer to socialism than, say, the Affordable Care Act.
Nimbus · M
tenente · 100+, M
i don't 'care' 🤷‍♂️

 
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