What would be a reasonable compromise on this wall issue ?

@puck61 Check your spelling, Scooter.

@MarkPaul Check your living , Sparky. You won't though. You don't care. Your conscience is dead,.

@puck61 Oki.

[quote]all you have said is "Walls work" with no reasoning behind it.[/quote]

Why would I need to provide evidence that walls work? It's self evident. Why do you need someone to tell you what is simple and obvious logic?

[quote]Especially considering this very simple fact that seems to escape you, that we aren't stopping anyone at that border with evil intent, wall or no wall.[/quote]

Disagree. I never said that strawman.

[quote]Trump has been offered 5 billion for updating fencing and rebuilding current structures as well as some technology updates, he wants 20 billion for the full wall.
[/quote]

Nonsense, he wants 5.7 billion. We are talking about now, not the past.

@SumKindaMunster OK, this is the last time, I am done playing your childish games.

[quote]Why would I need to provide evidence that walls work? It's self-evident. Why do you need someone to tell you what is simple and obvious logic?[/quote]

Because its not evident to ANY with common sense. Walls throughout history have failed, even small ones, so why would any think a 2000 mile long one would work. Then the 2nd part of that you seem to be unable to comprehend is that no one we want to stop even uses the southern border to come into the country, all the bad guys try to fly in. So why build a wall to stop bad guys when bad guys aren't coming that way?

[quote]Disagree. I never said that strawman.[/quote]

I never claimed you said it, I claimed its what the DoJ facts bear out. Its not a strawman, its a fact.

[quote]onsense, he wants 5.7 billion. We are talking about now, not the past.[/quote]

Nonsense. He wants a 20billion dollar wall and he wanted Mexico to pay for it, he guaranteed those things, many many times over. I prefer to hold people accountable for what they say.

As I said, I am done now, no point in arguing with someone who won't take in new facts or use logic when it comes to ideas. Take care.

@Pherick [quote]Walls throughout history have failed, even small ones, so why would any think a 2000 mile long one would work. [/quote]

No, they haven't. Just because some have been breached over time does not mean they failed. Again, I never claimed a wall would stop everyone. That doesn't mean it is a failure.

[quote]I never claimed you said it, I claimed its what the DoJ facts bear out. Its not a strawman, its a fact.[/quote]

It's perhaps a fact that has nothing to do with the subject of the argument. Which is whether or not walls work. You are trying to make the argument about something it is not, hence it is a strawman argument.

[quote]Nonsense. He wants a 20billion dollar wall and he wanted Mexico to pay for it, he guaranteed those things, many many times over. I prefer to hold people accountable for what they say.[/quote]

Well again, we are talking about what is happening now and what Trump wants now. Not what he said before. I think its adorable you think politicians should honor everything they say. Let me know when you are done playing in the land of make believe.

[quote]As I said, I am done now, no point in arguing with someone who won't take in new facts or use logic when it comes to ideas. Take care.[/quote]

Oh no! Gosh how will I ever sleep tonight? Pherick is pouting!

@chrisCA I am a dirty hippie Commie ;)

@SW-User *raises glass of vodka to you*

@chrisCA Comrade!

@puck61 i love the trebuchet image... if the wall leads to more trebuchets build i want a wall

@NoSugar There is a MEME OP , if I ever saw one!

@puck61
I think part of this issue is that several topics have been conflated to a single, simple idea ... different actions need different approaches, yes? Drug smugglers are one thing, human smugglers are another, asylum seekers are another, gang members are another, etc. etc. etc.

@Sicarium
I’m sorry - he’s been lying like a rug every single day of his presidency. He’s utterly untrustworthy. He said he’s be happy to accept responsibility for the shutdown. (Lied.) You know, the wall that Mexico is going to pay for. (Lied.)
To say nothing of the fact that he’s the least qualified person to ever hold the office - we needed someone to steer the ship of state and we got the cook from the Red October.
And it’s his attempt “AT ALL COSTS” to fulfill the promise to his base ... which is to say, he doesn’t care if the government shuts down, he only cares that he gets his wall. I’d suggest priorities are skewed, to say the least.

But then, you and I are clearly never going to agree on the present inhabitant of the White House, so you can toss a round of “Ya buts” my way about why he’s the best thing since sliced bread and I’ll give you the last word on it. I’m more interested in finding solutions than pointing fingers, in the long run. (Which is what NoSugar is looking for ... solutions, not pointing fingers.)

All of that said, Pelosi and Schumer have to come to the table as well. They’re enjoying making 45 look bad (and they play politics better than he does), so they’re not going to offer much of a compromise themselves until that pony has been ridden to death. As a moderate Democrat who has the opinions I’ve shared about 45, I’m enjoying how he’s looking like a heartless toddler. As an American who’s worried about federal workers who live paycheck to paycheck, about national parks being kept pristine and available, about air traffic controllers being able to do their jobs, etc., both the White House and the Congress disgust me.

If both sides insist that it’s all their way or no way, we’re going to be right where we are. You (speaking for the right) insist that the only alternative to a shut down government is fully funding the wall, I (speaking for the left) refuse to pay for it.
That’s not answering the original question, it’s focused on political gamesmanship which BOTH sides have and are doing (funding for the wall was offered - 45 said yes, then got grief from the right and, worried that he would lose his base, back-tracked. And there’s the DACA thing you mentioned. So yeah, both sides.)

I bet you and I agree on the need for border security, and I’ll bet that we agree that the people who work along the border know what they need better than any damned politician or politician wanna-be. So I’m betting that we could agree on asking those people tasked with protecting the entirety of the southern border, what they need to secure it ... perhaps a barrier in some places, more people or better vehicles in some places, drones and satellite observation, whatever ... and fund those things. That way, it’s not about keeping a promise, it’s about trusting people who know the situation and funding their work.
How’s that sound?

@waleskinder
The president? Yes, yes he is. But he’s what we’ve got at the moment. And frankly, Pelosi and Schumer aren’t much better.

@MistyCee
That’s the most cogent argument on this thread!

@Strictsinger thank you.

@damselfly You did not read his reference to "American football", to which he referred in a disparaging manner. And why are you chiming in at all?

Why the hell shouldn't I chime in? You think this government shutdown because of Trump's wall isn't of worldwide interest? Who made you the arbiter of who gets to chime in on an open story on a website open to all?

What does Joeys opinion on American football have any bearing on whether a wall is built? You really do believe that nobody should express views alternative to yours? Seriously? With yourself as the dictatorial thought police?

@damselfly You and he must be friends. "Hell"? It is people like you, who use inflammatory language, who are the hell in the equation.

@OggggO That may be, but we don't need more criminals- we have enough already here!

@LonelyMan A wall isn't going to stop criminals.

@LonelyMan so what about more surveillance instead of a block of concrete ?

@calnative so a hard crackdown on all illegals and those employing them instead of a wall. good... that might work

@TheSirfurryanimalWales I still think Nancy Pelosi will NEVER listen

@NoSugar i thought that is what i provided.
???

@Carla cause daca recipients are still illegals taking space and jobs

Someone take your job? Thought not

@NoSugar i know.

@pentacorn
It’s also worth mentioning that, even if we paid for the Mexican wall, it wouldn’t be built for a very long time, indeed. It’s not like we’re going to get a serious wall built in three weeks or even a year if the Democrats caved completely.
A waste of taxpayer dollars.

@Strictsinger very good point, indeed.

@NoSugar Like I definitely understand both sides not wanting to seem weak but there are other ways to have a d**k waving contest that don't affect millions of peoples lives. Put aside the pettiness..find a solution that everyone can live with and get on with it.

I haven't been monitoring the situation that closely but it seems like both sides are unwilling to move an inch and I think that's what it will take. Because if one side is willing to compromise a bit and the other one isn't there will be much more of an uproar.

@MrBlueGuy i think the most reasonanle compromise is either build it or not and the side that gets what they want gives up another political agenda... like build the wall but ban all guns...

@NoSugar Well I'm not a Trump supporter by any means but from my understanding Trump has said he's willing to give other political favours if he can get the wall funding it's the democrats that unwilling to budge on the issue... and I'm not aware of anything they have offered up to trade instead of the wall. BUT I definitely could be wrong.

@daisymay
THAT is the best idea yet! LOL!

@daisymay have a pleasant day

@daisymay
If it’s quite clear that 45 is willing to kill people, I reiterate my point. While you’re enjoying the high moral ground of, “We don’t negotiate with terrorists” dogma, recognize that your refusal to negotiate with dobeone who doesn’t care if he kills his hostages is exactly whats going to get them killed.
I’m sure some of them, and some of their families, will be damned proud that their fathers/mothers/sons/daughters died for a great cause, but for the majority that don’t, I hope you’ll be ready to stand in front of them and tell them how refusing to talk to the president was note important than their life.

@Strictsinger The point of not negotiating with terrorists is not "moral high ground", but because if hostage taking works once, it will work over and over again. It's depressing that these people are caught in the middle, but it's either end this without rewarding those who put them there, or see them, and more, back there every time Trump or someone like him who saw that it worked for him, feels like they aren't getting enough of their way. There are currently 800,000 hostages, but I guarantee that if we give Trump the wall in exchange for their paychecks, the final total will make 800,000 look small.

@Carver you are not helping

@NoSugar I know, I just had to say that bit. The only compromise I can think of is [b]not[/b] building the wall and putting it off. Trump accidentally admitted himself that there is no real emergency at the border. 🤷‍♀️

@xixgun No, we’d be losing in that scenario.

@xixgun
Building the wall isn’t compromise, it’s capitulation.

He’ll, 45 can look good if McConnell brings the bill which has already been voted on and accepted by everyone to the floor, where it will pass again; then 45 vetos it, that veto is overridden, and he gets to say he tried but the Democrats were just too much for him. He kisses his base voters asses, he’s seen as strong, and everybody get Border Security and more personnel and moves on to immigration reform, which ALL of us know and agree we need.

@soar2newhighs
That’s not answering the question, and it’s tossing a bunch of other stuff into the ring as well.
That said, if 45 agreed to resign, I’d support pretty much anything, even money for his wall - maybe even the 5 billion. It’s not going to be built for a decade or more anyway, and since he hasn’t brought in a designer, just contractors, it’ll be a piece of crap.

Schumer and Pelosi need to get off their butts as well, but that’s hard with 45 (who said he’d be happy to take the hit for closing the government for border security) making a Jimmy Carter-sequel ass of himself. (I liked Jimmy, but he wasn’t a great president, and staying in the Rose Garden until the hostages were returned was a stunt equally as stupid as the POSIC trying to look presidential by staying in Washington during the shutdown.)

Most Democrats are just as supportive of border security as most Republicans - the difference is that our inept Dear Leader promised his base a wall, so for him (and then), “border security” ONLY means this long wall of dubious value.
Both sides are making political hay, and the actual politicians are better at it than the bad businessman with no history of public service, so of COURSE they’re going to wait him out.
It disgusts me, because virtually ANY compromise from the White House could serve to break the impasse, but since he INSISTS on ONLY 5+B for “some kind of barrier” (because that’s what his base insists on), there’s nothing to compromise WITH.

Which is why we’re on this thread.

@Mountainlady16
Wow - you know you’re going to be on that list too, right? Because if we can hunt down the brown people we can hunt down the black people and the Asians and then check your parents and your kids and your siblings and you, ‘cause illegal immigrants come in all shapes and sizes and colors.

Tell me, are you supportive of the idea of having Muslims wear a yellow star inside a crescent moon, so we know who is and isn’t a danger to our country?

@Strictsinger I can prove my citizenship with a simple piece of paper known as my birth certificate. I have nothing to worry about.

@Mountainlady16
Do you object to immigrants in general, or to those who apply for asylum, or to just those who cross illegally?

@Strictsinger i object to illegals and refugees.

@Mountainlady16
And we’re on the same page about the fact that those seeking asylum have a legal right to do that and go through the process?

@curiosi I would challenge you to post the stupidest meme on the subject, but you're clearly the winner already.

@Penny hell no deport every last one of them. Amnesty just bring in more

@Mountainlady16 but they are supposedly filling a niche and if they were legal then there would be no more illegal problem (except for new ones that would be kept out or immediately deported) make new or enforce laws about companies that hire illegals. take away business licenses, etc..

@calnative Went right over your head I see. Not surprising, you're a tard.

@monkeysdevil007 i see what you did there

@NoSugar You would qualify for my plan then if you were Mexican 👍️

@monkeysdevil007
It’s hard to tell - are you being particularly snarky about the whole thing, or making a serious disparaging comment about the intelligence of Mexicans?