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I just don't understand the exaggerated worship of science by many today and why they've held it up as a force that would somehow solve everything.

Science is merely a tool for understanding a small part of the mechanics of this very temporary and transient world which is not our home. A world that is going to be destroyed someday. An illustration to put this into persepctive: say that science is the workings of the ocean and the life in the sea, but there is a whole other world and dimension of air above the surface that science says does not exist. When the fish comes up to the surface, which ultimately is bringing him closer to death so he's on his deathbed, he becomes aware of this whole other world that a lot of the fish don't know exist. Especially the ones that are like 10 miles deep in the dark abyss of the sea and that's all they know. And maybe once in a while the fish theorize about there being something more above, closer to the light, but the scientist fishes say, "you're crazy! It's just this. As far as the eye can see. The horizon of the seabed."

It is quite natural for human minds to discredit the supernatural. The miraculous is not necessarily unscientific, it is not the setting aside or overriding of laws. A miracle is simply God doing something according to certain laws of which we know nothing. To illustrate: If I had said, twenty years ago, I talked with a man the other day one hundred miles away, just as though he were ten feet distant from me, it would have been called a miracle, and why? Simply because there was then no law of acoustics known, by which the human voice could be transmitted one hundred miles; but, within time, such a law has been discovered, and our voices may be heard by our friends one hundred, or one thousand miles away, and it is not called a miracle. i doubt not there are ten thousand laws operating in the universe of which man knows nothing, to every one which he may truthfully say: I know the method by which it operates.

How can any sane person let such a limited and ephemeral tool destroy their faith in an eternal God and a much more real world that lasts forever? What a foolish trap many have fallen into. 1 Corinthians 3:19 does say, "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness."
150 years ago if a cut got infected you risked death. Nowadays it's a minor issue.

150 years ago if you were lucky enough to own your own small farm, you faced a life of backbreaking labor with little time to appreciate the finer things in life, and starvation stalked with every bad winter. Nowadays we all have time to read and study and improve our minds.

We all love motherhood. Isn't it great how many more women survive childbirth to become mothers and raise their children with love?

150 years ago, one third of all babies died before the age of 5. Nowadays it's about half a percent (5.6 per 1000)

Religion didn't make these improvements. Philosophy didn't make these improvements. Politics didn't make these improvements. Science did.

Life expectancy 150 years ago was 42 years. Now it's 78. Thank you, scientists and engineers, for those extra 36 years and all the free time to read and travel and study and think.

I don't "worship" science. But it's 100 percent clear to me what has vastly improved my life and the lives of billions of others on this planet. So I have a great appreciation for science.


Yeah, I know, you're gonna suggest Isaac Newton was a gift from God. But Europe was Christian by the end of the 7th century. Why would God wait 900 years to give us calculus and magnifying lenses?? Why would God wait 1200 years to give us the germ theory of disease?? Why would God leave His people to suffer for an extra 1200 years after Christianity had spread??? Sorry, the timeline refutes that suggestion.
@gol979 I just googled midazolam, dnrs.
What I found was people in the UK making allegations; no evidence of mass murder. I looked up the drug, it's giving to dying people. That explains any correlations you found between midazolam and death. That's a misuse or misunderstanding of statistics.

Here's another. In the US, most injury patients who are killed by an injury are declared dead on arrival at Emergency rooms. Car crash victims, gunshot wounds, industrial accidents, whatever - ambulances bring them to ERs where a declaration of death is made. Does that mean the ER is involved in mass murder?? NO!! The causation goes the opposite way. Likewise with midazolam.

But on to the bigger topic - I live in the US and I'm familiar with and cite and post US statistics. You alleged that 500,000 excess US deaths in 2020 were due to mass murder via "euthanising drugs." But now you're cherrypicking anecdotes in the UK.

Did you really make that allegation about 500,000 excess US deaths in 2020 based on a few cherry picked anecdotes from the UK? Something bad MAY have happened in Liverpool, and that "proves" 500,000 murders in the US? Is that the state of your argument or do you have EVIDENCE??

[quote]look it up yourself.[/quote]
In my experience, that's what people say when they have no EVIDENCE. Allegations of 500,000 US murders; ZERO US evidence. SAD!!
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@ElwoodBlues That damn magical oil and prayer is supposed to cure everything. After all, sins cause diseases. What the heck are these germs, bacteria, and viruses some people are blabbering about?

James 5:13-16 (NLT) = "13 Are any of you suffering hardships? You should pray. Are any of you happy? You should sing praises. 14 Are any of you sick? You should call for the elders of the church to come and pray over you, anointing you with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 Such a prayer offered in faith will heal the sick, and the Lord will make you well. And if you have committed any sins, you will be forgiven.

16 Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The earnest prayer of a righteous person has great power and produces wonderful results."
DocSavage · M
Been trying to tell him the same thing.
Says the guy using a device created by science to post on the internet (also created by science) about his love of an imaginary sky fairy 💁‍♂️
@WalterF So is your face 💁‍♂️
DocSavage · M
[quote] This post is not specifically attacking engineers, but the perception of science by the experts and some of the public.[/quote]
Then what your attacking is knowledge itself. Science is the process in which we learn. What you do with what you learn is up to you. Always has been. You seem to think that science is completing with the belief in god. That by following the path of learning, we lose touch with the morality of god . Ken Ham preaches mush the same thing. There’s man’s word, and there’s god’s word. The problem you run into is, science still shows man’s word to be more trustworthy and realistic. Your problem is, you think the world should move backwards instead of forward.
DocSavage · M
@SW-User [quote] Ironically, your comment bolsters my point, in demonstrating that science is worshipped as a magical force that can do no wrong and never be criticized. [/quote]

Science is not worshipped. It is respected because [b]IT WORKS ![/b]
It is not a magical force that conjures or creates with a word. It uses principles to the needs, and produces results. Stop comparing it to religion. It is a material process for a material world. You trying to make it into something spiritual, so that you can denounce it
BlueVeins · 22-25
Science doesn't 'refute' God, so to speak, but it does teach you how to think critically and apply the burden of proof, which is inherently contrary to the doctrine of religious faith. The scientific method boils down to making a claim about the world, seeking evidence for or against said claim, and assigning credibility (or lack thereof) to that claim based on said evidence. So it really shouldn't be surprising that these same science-minded people don't take it seriously when someone claims that there's some kind of invisible being out there who can't be observed in any way that's distinguishable from known natural phenomena.
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@BlueVeins It's not that hard to build large stone pyramids. People built them in the Sudan and in Central America as well as in Egypt.
Northwest · M
When did scientists ever claim that science solves everything?

We will never solve everything. We, however, will continue to evolve our scientific knowledge.

[quote]If I had said, twenty years ago, I talked with a man the other day one hundred miles away, just as though he were ten feet distant from me, it would have been called a miracle, and why? Simply because there was then no law of acoustics known, by which the human voice could be transmitted one hundred miles; but, within time, such a law has been discovered, and our voices may be heard by our friends one hundred, or one thousand miles away, and it is not called a miracle.[/quote]

Of course it's not called a miracle. It's called a telephone, and they have been around for more than 100 years. You can thank science for that.
WintaTheAngle · 41-45, M
It’s not worship, prayers are not offered to chemical elements, we don’t sing songs about physics, there are no people burned alive for publishing new theories.
@SW-User Nobody "worships" money. They have an unhealthy fixation on money because it symbolizes comfort and power. That's like saying you worship the Bible. I think you would say that you worship God, and the Bible is one way you know God, but you don't "worship" it. But it looks like idolatrous worship to an outsider.
DocSavage · M
[quote] many people say "I don't believe in God, I believe in science." Or "In science we trust". Many replace God with science. They quite literally are holding up science as a new god. [/quote]
As usual, you are taking things out of context. Science is not a religion, and no one treats it so. God represents the old way of thinking, when everything was taken on faith, regardless. Science is based on facts, people are moving away from the superstition, trusting in reality.
That’s what bothers you the most. We live in the material world, you’re still pinning for a heaven .
DocSavage · M
If they go against established science, there’s a little matter of proof. Hard proof that can withstand the harshest testing. You made a lot of clams, but you have no credible evidence to support it. Conspiracy theories won’t cut it.
CorvusBlackthorne · 46-50, M
Yes, science [i]is[/i] a tool. Applying that tool, we see that your comparison is not valid. Any fish can leap out of the water and see that there is another world above the surface. Where is this afterlife of which you speak? Where is your scientific evidence that it is the Christian afterlife, rather than the Islamic afterlife? Perhaps we are reincarnated as the Hindus believe. Can you, ultimately, prove that we are not?
redredred · M
Never had surgery,eh? Never been on a plane or actually reflected on the technology of the very tool you’re using for this interchange?

Science isn’t worshipped by anyone who knows anything about it. It may be looked at as almost magical by the ignorant but compared to superstitions like religions or spirituality, it is amazingly capable.

The ignorant take their silly superstitious mindset and apply it to most things they don’t understand. Plus, there’s still a lot of recreational drug use.
@redredred You talk about me not having a counter argument when you didn't offer any counter argument to anything in my post.

You say science has delivered far more usable benefits for humanity. You talk about physical benefits, and even in that area, the bad still far outweighs the good.

What about social, emotional, mental and spiritual benefits? Man is not just a meat suit, you know. We have a body, soul and spirit. What does science offer when it comes to eternal life? This life is just one dash between two dates and then after that is all of eternity.
redredred · M
@SW-User Without science you’d be mired in superstition, relying on folk remedies, praying to non-existent gods that pests wouldn’t destroy your meager crops and that you’re few surviving children could help you with the farming now that you’re nearing fifty and old age has weakened you.

Tell me about the fulfilling philosophical and rapturous personal growth such an existence allows.
DocSavage · M
[quote] We have a body, soul and spirit. What does science offer when it comes to eternal life? This life is just one dash between two dates and then after that is all of eternity.[/quote]
What I can’t understand is why you fear science so much. Science deals with the material world. It concerns that time between one date and the other. Are you so uncertain of your god, that you have to discredit science to protect him ?
The sad thing is, it doesn’t change anything. Even if you could prove the science wrong, it doesn’t make your god more real. It’s your faith that gives him substance, not truth.
[quote] As for your point on life expectancy, but you're wrong here. Humans do not live longer. I know you don't accept this, but the ancient Biblical lifespan was 900 something years and our genetics have been declining since. Now we are at 70-100 years. It isn't only the Bible that mentions this long lifespan, though, as most cultures all around the world talk about a golden age where people lived much longer. Some cultures have the lifespan at over a thousand years. Almost all cultures discuss this golden age because it is in the collective memory of mankind, because it is true.[/quote]

Evidence not anecdotes and mythology. What were humans like physically after 100? Male and female. Adam was never a child and teen because he was never born. Same with Eve. After the first two sons, no children until Seth at 130. Was Eve infertile all that time? Seth didn’t have a son until he was 105. And so on.

Meanwhile, Cain got a wife (unnamed of course) and son Enoch. Who built a city for three.

Reads just like mythology.
AJS30 · 31-35, M
People are brainwashed/programmed to worship science or the idea of science and to view it as infallible so that they'll blindly accept any propaganda that's science-related. Real science is about questioning not blind belief and herd mentality. Science has been corrupted/hijacked and turned into a cult/religion.
@AJS30 Yes, it is called scientism or science falsely so called. You see, there's real science, which is merely a method of inquiry based on reason. evidence, hypothesis and collective investigation and then there's scientism or science as a belief system or a worldview, namely the worldview of philosophical materialism. That is what science has been reduced to, materialism or philosophical materialism. The worldview aspect of science or scientism says we already understand the nature of reality in principle, only leaving the details to be filled in. This inhibits and constricts the free inquiry that scientists claim is the heart of science. The sciences are now wholly owned subsidiaries of the materialist worldview.

I also call it a science fiction religion, because all of the "science" their government mouthpieces like Neil Degrasse Tyson, Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Krauss, Michio Kaku, Stephen Hawkin and others promulgate is based on two things: a deap seated hatred for the God of the Bible and science fiction movies. Macro-evolution, big bang, billions of years and billions of galaxies, the multiverse, heliocentrism, is all fantasy. None of this is testable, proveable or observable. It's all philosophical speculation.
DocSavage · M

The universe has far too many wonders for just one god.
Science is 100% neutral and the methodology works. Fully documented. Nobody says it’s anyway perfect, hat is reserved for all powerful mythological deities. Not long ago, I read a book about the history of science through it's tools. Starting from the first which was fire. That lead to pottery and a byproduct called glass. Our species has existed for two hundred thousand years or so. When we began to use metal, it took only five thousand years to reach the Moon.

If there is anything I do worship it is strong evidence. I refuse to accept magic.
DocSavage · M
I can’t understand why you’re so afraid to learn something new.
Nobody is "worshipping science." Having respect for scientific knowledge is not "worship," at least, not any kind of worship that would be recognized by most religious people.

You're stuck on the "everybody deifies something" theory, but it's a category error.
@BizSuitStacy Thank you.
gol979 · 41-45, M
Plenty of Zealots for Scientism have reared their ugly heads the last few years. You can see it in the slogans. "You trust fedbook over experts" "hands, face, space" "2 weeks to flatten the curve" "its for your safety" "i wear this to protect others"
DocSavage · M
And creation isn’t pure fiction ? Six days, talking snakes , etc.
gol979 · 41-45, M
@DocSavage eh? What are you talking about?
DocSavage · M
[quote] The accepted scientific consensus of how those structures were built is pure fabrication. [/quote]
The biblical account of creation is a fable, the consensus regarding the construction of the pyramids is a fabrication ? I got a feeling about your sources, and it ain’t good.
RedBaron · M
I suppose you are correct, considering that science hasn’t been able to prevent the existence of idiots like yourself. 😂
DocSavage · M
Again. Science is a process. It has no morality. It is what is there. It’s humans that are to blame for it’s misuse. As mentioned before in other post. The same science that built the atom bomb, also powers the reactors that light up millions of homes and streets .
DocSavage · M
Make up your mind.
Evolution has existed since the beginning of life. It’s always been here. All Darwin did is observe the process, and figure out the mechanism. Others misinterpreted it, or distorted it for their own agenda, like the Nazis, which eventually lead to the Nuremberg code you mentioned. Evolution is neither good or evil. Darwin’s explanation of evolution is in no way unethical. The misuse of it, as well as the continued willful ignorance regarding it, is where the morality becomes the issue. Separate the science from the human factor, and the science itself is clean. And since there are practical and beneficial uses for science, I see no reason to condemn it or compare it with religion. It is the application of information already there.
You’re the ones who keeps arguing against context. Remember ? You can’t have it both ways.
@gol979 To be a good scientist, the most important root subject to learn is math. There are specialized schools of math and science that parents pay to send their children. With a high probability of getting scholarships and well paying jobs. Are all these people making the wrong investment?

Everyone here reaps the benefits of the methodology of science. Instead of having distrust and denial, why don’t you promote just one alternative that has equal results? Are there any? What would the educational prerequisites?

I don’t know anyone that would trust anything known to be less effective.
gol979 · 41-45, M
@DocSavage eh? How can you separate science from the human factor when it is a solely human enterprise
DocSavage · M
What’s to understand. Science is the search for facts and truth . The exact opposite of religion and faith.
@DocSavage He done got deleted again.
DocSavage · M
[quote] How can any sane person let such a limited and ephemeral tool destroy their faith in an eternal God and a much more real world that lasts forever? What a foolish trap many have fallen into. 1 Corinthians 3:19 does say, "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness."[/quote]
How about a practical discussion to demonstrating the value of each.
Which do you consider to produce realistic results. Modern medicine, or faith healing ? That would seem to me the best comparison of your theory. Something with proven , documented data. What do you got in numbers ?
CorvusBlackthorne · 46-50, M
ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
How? Very easily.

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