The Current Disaster in Ukraine

Putin invaded Ukraine.

Ukraine did not invade Russia.

End of discussion.

No kiddo, the parts involved here are Russia and Ukraine. Hadn't Putin invaded or had Putin retreated soon enough, NATO wouldn't bother sending military aids.

If it really was Russia vs NATO, the war would've truly ended in three days.

Oh for fucks sake your take is not nouanced at all you spout the same shit all Putin apologists do.

Russia invaded Ukraine so it's a war between two countries. I don't see why we should let Putin take even more Ukrainian land and slaughter civillians. We shouldn't have when he took Krimea.
Putin isn't as strong as everyone thought and him "winning" would set a dangerous precedent.
Your peace means pain and suffering for the people of Ukraine. Cease fire would be great but not under Moscows terms.

This is not Cold War, it is old fashioned Russian imperialism. My ancestral homeland, Poland, has faced a similar existential crisis for centuries 🙃

To all the far-left trolls who are so eager for this war to continue, and who keep parrotting the line that "we can't stop until Russia, or Putin, is defeated", or words to that effect, I have just ONE question:
Will you do the couragous thing and actually offer any REAL, substantive support to Ukraine by volunteering to fight over there, or are you all just full of hot air?
It's very easy to be bombastic from the comfort of your own living room, far, far away from the combat zone.
So... come on people! Join the Ukrainian Army [b]right now![/b] Otherwise you're just a bunch of chicken-shit, lazy, spoilt virtue-signallers who would crap your pants at the first sign of danger. For idiots like you I have NO respect whatsoever, because you're the kind of people who like to send others to fight for you, while you risk nothing.

Of course, the Cold War mentality hasn't gone, and that is mostly because the U.S and the West in general doesn't want Russia to decide its own destiny. We have seen it countless times in other countries, including some European ones...Hungary would be a good example, and so would Poland when they aren't hating Russia. These are countries that want to be different, but the West is in opposition to that. Russia highlights the wider problem of globalism and in my view, it is Western imperialism that is the problem, not Russian.

Putin may have done bad things, but so has the U.S, both domestically and abroad, more times and in worse ways than I would care to calculate. Beyond Putin's more negative deeds, he has tried to make Russia stronger and to encourage some positive changes to the country. I think Putin would engage well with the West if they were to accept that Russia isn't going to agree with everything they say or do, and is entitled to not conform to how the U.S and other countries would like it to be.

You mention escalation, but I don't think it's likely unless NATO actually does intervene and other countries get involved. To an extent, they already are (Ukraine receives vast military support), however this isn't to the degree that Putin would see this war go beyond the current borders. Truthfully, he could have ended it many months ago, but he won't, precisely because it would require more aggressive action.

People like Prigozhin, however, would happily see all of Ukraine implode if it meant achieving their military purpose. Many in the West wouldn't be able to understand, but Putin has showed some restraint and for that reason, it should be easy to determine that he doesn't want to destroy Ukraine, or start a war with NATO.

You, and Putin, seem to be forgetting a three-way treaty known as the [i]1994 Budapest Memorandum.[/i]

Essentially, Ukraine agreed to give up all its nuclear weapons to Russia in exchange for safety from a U.S. or Russian invasion. Russia's invasion of Ukraine violates that treaty. And as a signatory to that 1994 Budapest Memorandum, the U.S. has a definite interest in righting Putin's current wrongs.

[quote]In the final version of the deal, Russia promised not to attack Ukraine. While the U.S. and the U.K. assured Ukraine they would aid if it was attacked by Russia, that promised aid did not guarantee military support like a NATO country would receive.

In 2009, Russia and the U.S. announced that the assurances in the Budapest Memorandum would continue to remain in effect in the future.
[/quote]
https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/global-conflicts/ukraine-agreed-to-give-up-nukes-in-exchange-for-safety-from-russia-invasion-attack-budapest-memorandum-treaty/536-8748a51f-10ee-47f0-be30-b4088750ee44

Russia promised [i]specifically[/i] NOT to invade Ukraine, and the U.S. promised [i]specifically[/i] to ASSIST Ukraine if the treaty were ever violated. And that's what the U.S. is doing now.

What would America do if Russia and China jointly operated military bases around Americas borders with Cuba and Mexico, surrounding it with weapons that could reach the white house and core defense installations within minutes, greatly suppressing it's ability to defend itself? I imagine they'd respond with far less patience than Russia has demonstrated. And even in this current conflict Russia remains the only party open for negotiations, so the only ones determined to keep this war going are the west that keep flooding Ukraine with weapons.

[quote]The truth is I don't "support" either side in that, profoundly stupid, war[/quote]

Really? Seems to me that you believe Russia is the victim here and that it just had to invade Ukraine and massacre hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians because…?

I think I'm in agreement with you. The US gave bad advice to Russia in the wake of the dissolution of the USSR and Russia suffered for it (the oligarch system is residue of selling off Russian industry to private persons wholesale rather than breaking it into smaller entities for the sake of competition in the market). Russia, suffering humiliation having gone from a superpower to a has-been, has been on a mission to rebuild national pride under Putin. One of the ways this has been expressed is in the acquisition of territory historically owned by Russia, like Crimea and Ukraine. Moreover, Russia has spread illiberal democracy (authoritarianism plus voting) as far and wide as it can, financing right-wing parties across Europe and meddling in US elections. The Cold War was declared over because for a time Russia under Yeltsin played nice with America, but this didn't last under Putin. Russia and Putin still see America as the enemy.

It's called expansionism, greed and the belief that power emanates from the barrel of a gun.

The goddam globalists in China vs the goddam globalists in Russia vs the goddam globalists in the US and Europe vs the goddam ones in the middle east...

That's why wars. None of the leaders are innocent and it's always the civilians that die in this shitty "united nation" concept.

The doomsday clock is nowhere near as close as it was during the Cuban missile crisis. Like, the more I learn about that the more I realize we were one hiccough away from nuclear armageddon.

You have the right read of this though. The people of Ukraine are victims of a tug of war between NATO and Russia, and neither are "good guys".

How do you think the war should be resolved?

The only reason this entire war reminds you of the Cold War is that Vladimir Putin is trying desperately to reassemble the former Soviet Union by invading his neighbors. Rather than that war, this should put you in mind of World War II, but I rather doubt you have the intelligence to understand why.

the war will probably continue on for 20 years then russia will retreat

You're right that it's sickening. But I think your off by saying NATO wants to make it worse. That's not what it is.

Putin needs to be removed
That’s how this ends.

His demise.

Then the new government unilaterally withdraws without conditions

This kind of thing is as old as humanity and will go on forever

Oh, honey, no. It's about saving Ukraine from utter obliteration. Nice try.

I'm not too worried about it expanding. Usually when a war goes on as long as this one has, it doesn't expand, and I don't think NATO wants it to