The Current Disaster in Ukraine

Many apparently believe that when the Berlin Wall came down back in 1989, and then two years later the USSR imploded, that these events signalled the final end to the 'Cold War'. This is rather strange when you actually consider all that took place after these events, and the current (and rather sad) state of the world today. The 'Cold War' over? [i]It never ended![/i]
In fact, the so-called Doomsday Clock is now closer to midnight than it's EVER been, and maybe I shouldn't, but I DO worry about the war in Ukraine getting worse, and spreading to other nations within Eastern Europe. Need I worry? I think so!
The truth is I don't "support" either side in that, profoundly stupid, war. Both sides (and by that expression, I mean NATO and Russia, not Ukraine and Russia) in the conflict seem determined to make it even worse, and being the politicians they are, they don't give a damn about anyone or anything apart from "saving face"! It's sickening, it truly is.

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Gloomy · F

Oh for fucks sake your take is not nouanced at all you spout the same shit all Putin apologists do.

Russia invaded Ukraine so it's a war between two countries. I don't see why we should let Putin take even more Ukrainian land and slaughter civillians. We shouldn't have when he took Krimea.
Putin isn't as strong as everyone thought and him "winning" would set a dangerous precedent.
Your peace means pain and suffering for the people of Ukraine. Cease fire would be great but not under Moscows terms.

Cassie2083

@Gloomy Well, let's hear your peace plan then, or your "nuanced" account of how this whole sorry mess came to be. This should be fascinating! ☺️

Gloomy · F

@Cassie2083 Aiding Ukraines self defense as long as necessary until Putin has been driven out of the country which, if you keep track may take a while but is more likely than Putin actually winning. The people of Ukraine don't want and just can't live and shouldn't have to live under a foreign force. Imagine Putin winning could inspire others to do the same and expect states to yield under military might.

Putin engaged in an imperial war to gain control of land. That's it, claiming it's due to feeling threatened by Nato is as silly as the de - nazify argument.

Cassie2083

@Gloomy You call [b]that[/b] "nuanced"? Please, try harder. If this were a school assignment, I'd give you at most an F+.
Actually look into the recent history of Ukraine, how and why other powers (primarily the U.S.) interfered in Ukraine's internal affairs, helped to topple the democratically elected government of V. Yanukovych, and how they've basically surrounded Russia with military bases and new NATO countries (ex. the Baltic States).
Ordinary Russians (not Putin or his government) have every right to feel threatened by a hostile military alliance [i]right on their damn border![/i]

Gloomy · F

@Cassie2083 No the situation even lacks much nuance I said that people like you act like you provide nuance to the discussion while in reality just defend your daddy Putin.

I'm not Natos biggest fan but they are not and have never been ready to attack Russia. Putin is butthurt that Russia has been meaningless on the world political stage ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Also if Russia feels threatened invading a neighboring country is not in any way a proper reaction it is insane to me how you try to legitimise an imperialist aggression.

Gloomy · F

@Cassie2083 all you do is spreading russian propaganda

Cassie2083

@Gloomy Since when is the truth "Russian propaganda"? Anything the governments and media of the West doesn't like is always "just Russian propaganda". You've been brainwashed, that much is obvious.

Gloomy · F

@Cassie2083 My innitial assesment on Russian society is its blatant homophobia, violation of human rights and anti democratic structure so not trustworthy at all I am no fan of the capitalist west being from Romania which still struggles but I have helped out refugees and listened to what they have to say.
Your call for peace talks on Russian terms will have severe consequences and will only aid a far right autocracy. Between Russia and NATO - Nato is the lesser evil

Gloomy · F

@Cassie2083 You ignore the Budapest Memorandum in your attempt to justify this war

Cassie2083

@Gloomy Ah now, don't tell lies. I did NOT call for peace talks "on Russian terms"; I simply called for a ceasefire, with no conditions attached in order to at least stop the killing for a while. Everyone would remain in place, where they are until such time as both sides would disengage, which would include an eventual Russian withdrawal from Ukraine.
THAT would be my plan. Would it work? Perhaps not, because the politicians on BOTH sides are too pigheaded to do something sensible about all of this.

Gloomy · F

@Cassie2083 exactly it wouldn't work. It would be a start but the russian foreign minister made it very clear since the beginning that it will never come to this.

Cassie2083

@Gloomy This may be unrelated, but I do find it puzzling that you're Romanian but like communism, an ideology that was imposed on your country by the USSR. Surely you must know that both communism and socialism just do not work, and yet your comments here are overwhelmingly Russophobic. Is it a case of not liking Russia because they (sensibly, in my view) gave up communism in favour of a system, although far from being anywhere near perfect, is at least better than what they had before? Do you feel bitter that communism failed?
Actually, nevermind, it IS unrelated to this discussion. I was just curious about this, that's all.

Gloomy · F

@Cassie2083 First it's an economic system just like Capitalism existed under authoritarism so did Socialism. Better examples are Chile under Allende.
I think the USSR should have reformed itself not abolished itself. Your narrow minded understanding of socialism is evident by your already embarrassing post on it.

My people were socially in a better place during communism now being Roma still carries lots of stigma and social segregation.
I don't dislike Russians but politically and socially its a nightmare.

You think a far right autocracy is better than a socialist system? 😂
Also there are plenty reasonable and pragmatic heterodox left wing economic models that would lead to Socialism stop with your simping for a status quo.

Cassie2083

@Gloomy Chile under Allende was a disaster, much like Venezuela under Maduro. Both nations were relatively prosperous prior to their adoption of socialism (especially Venezuela, which is oil-rich), but it only took a couple of years for both nations to go bankrupt. The people in Venezuela are literally starving to death, and are trying to escape any way they can.
As someone once succinctly put it: "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" - Margaret Thatcher.
She was right you know.

Gloomy · F

@Cassie2083 pretty sure it was the far right dictator Pinochet that fucked the country up but you seem to like these types.

Thatcher was a monster

Cassie2083

@Gloomy Ahhh, Pinochet! How I miss that wonderful man. He used to give free helicopter rides over the Pacific for commie traitors.
Under Pinochet, Chile became the most prosperous nation in Latin America. As for Thatcher, she did what had to be done. It was painful, but what choice did she really have?

Cassie2083

@Gloomy Look, if you really do love socialism so much, then do yourself a big favour, and take a trip to Venezuela or Cuba. Go there and [i]see for yourself.[/i]