The Current Disaster in Ukraine

Many apparently believe that when the Berlin Wall came down back in 1989, and then two years later the USSR imploded, that these events signalled the final end to the 'Cold War'. This is rather strange when you actually consider all that took place after these events, and the current (and rather sad) state of the world today. The 'Cold War' over? [i]It never ended![/i]
In fact, the so-called Doomsday Clock is now closer to midnight than it's EVER been, and maybe I shouldn't, but I DO worry about the war in Ukraine getting worse, and spreading to other nations within Eastern Europe. Need I worry? I think so!
The truth is I don't "support" either side in that, profoundly stupid, war. Both sides (and by that expression, I mean NATO and Russia, not Ukraine and Russia) in the conflict seem determined to make it even worse, and being the politicians they are, they don't give a damn about anyone or anything apart from "saving face"! It's sickening, it truly is.

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CountScrofula · 41-45, M

The doomsday clock is nowhere near as close as it was during the Cuban missile crisis. Like, the more I learn about that the more I realize we were one hiccough away from nuclear armageddon.

You have the right read of this though. The people of Ukraine are victims of a tug of war between NATO and Russia, and neither are "good guys".

SW-User

@CountScrofula NATO is blameless in this. They were never going to invade Russia; in fact, Ukraine was never going to even be allowed to join. Putin knew this and invaded anyway. Putin is 100% the bad guy.

CountScrofula · 41-45, M

@SW-User Look at the last 20 years of history and the geopolitics surrounding Ukraine, and how many US political players like Paul Manafort have had shady dealings in that country. The 2014 revolution that turned Ukraine into a permanently pro-EU state when it had been pro-Russian for its entire existence. All that kinda stuff.

Ukraine has been in a massive tug of war between NATO and Russia and Russia views Ukraine being at least neutral as necessary for their survival as a state.

And I am not pro-Russian in any way whatsoever. Fuck Putin. But this is a 'know your enemy' deal.

SW-User

@CountScrofula Ukraine had not been pro-Russian. Far from it.

Gloomy · F

@CountScrofula still a poor attempt at legitimising this war on Putins side. Russia is a far right autocracy that needs to be destroyed. Nato is the lesser evil.

Cause if you have to choose between a liberal capitalist country and a far right authoritarian capitalist country the first option is the lesser evil and a bit better for the people.

CountScrofula · 41-45, M

@SW-User With all respect, I think you need to read more political history and less news you're just spouting propaganda at me.

And again, I in no way support Russia. I just calls it like I sees it.

Gloomy · F

@SW-User true and they weren't even gonna join Nato. All Putin is doing now is to lead other countries into the arms of Nato

Gloomy · F

@CountScrofula Ukraine has its own cultural and also national identity they are neutral and outside of politics were good neighbors with Russia

CountScrofula · 41-45, M

@Gloomy I think where we live may affect our opinions in an odd way, being Canadian I'm super anti-NATO lol.

But yeah like - Putin falling is probably better for the world as a whole, even though I think it may just create more chaos. But he's an evil, evil man and his political system is horrific.

Gloomy · F

@CountScrofula I'm not pro Nato but I understand why countries join and why it exists now. All I care about are the people of Ukraine and their sovereignity if it takes a deal with the devil (US) to guarantee their survival I support it.

CountScrofula · 41-45, M

@Gloomy I respect that. I think what it comes down to is I feel NATO and particularly Biden wanted this war. We may get to see the end of the modern state of Russia this way but how many Ukrainians do we have to sacrifice to get there?

Gloomy · F

@CountScrofula That's where I have to disagree.
Sure we could have done the same we did with Crimea but it was a mistake not to support Ukraine back then.
Ukrainians don't want to give up and let Putin win and the blame is a 100% on him.
Appeasing a dictator never ends well on the long run.

CountScrofula · 41-45, M

@Gloomy From my perspective out in Canada I've just seen so many years of the US playing God in other countries and endless sleazy characters getting rich out of manipulating Ukraine towards their own ends.

But still, I get the point of Russia being a profound force of evil in the world because I don't think it's a particularly happy place for fuckin' anyone who isn't ridiculously wealthy.

CorvusBlackthorne · M

@CountScrofula I must point out that had President Trump not chosen to cut defense funding to Ukraine, we would not find ourselves in the position of defending them now. Blaming Biden is a bit short-sighted.

CountScrofula · 41-45, M

@CorvusBlackthorne If Trump was in power, Russia would have never invaded because he would have capitulated to Russia lol. Not saying this is a good thing mind you.

CorvusBlackthorne · M

@CountScrofula I firmly believe Putin knew that Trump would be a one-term president. He used Trump's arrogance and ego to weaken his enemy, and waited to strike until a Democratic president was in office. He was fully aware that American Republican voters would blame Biden as a result of his propaganda machine. He was counting on America to be divided against itself and be useless in defending Ukraine.