The Current Disaster in Ukraine

Many apparently believe that when the Berlin Wall came down back in 1989, and then two years later the USSR imploded, that these events signalled the final end to the 'Cold War'. This is rather strange when you actually consider all that took place after these events, and the current (and rather sad) state of the world today. The 'Cold War' over? [i]It never ended![/i]
In fact, the so-called Doomsday Clock is now closer to midnight than it's EVER been, and maybe I shouldn't, but I DO worry about the war in Ukraine getting worse, and spreading to other nations within Eastern Europe. Need I worry? I think so!
The truth is I don't "support" either side in that, profoundly stupid, war. Both sides (and by that expression, I mean NATO and Russia, not Ukraine and Russia) in the conflict seem determined to make it even worse, and being the politicians they are, they don't give a damn about anyone or anything apart from "saving face"! It's sickening, it truly is.

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SW-User

What would America do if Russia and China jointly operated military bases around Americas borders with Cuba and Mexico, surrounding it with weapons that could reach the white house and core defense installations within minutes, greatly suppressing it's ability to defend itself? I imagine they'd respond with far less patience than Russia has demonstrated. And even in this current conflict Russia remains the only party open for negotiations, so the only ones determined to keep this war going are the west that keep flooding Ukraine with weapons.

Gloomy · F

@SW-User They wouldn’t invade but just put weapons near China and Russia then there would be either radio silence or they would have to seek a dialouge cause invading would end catastrophical for all people involved in that hypothetical.

Russia has been meaningless on the international political stage and is dependant on China even.

Slaughtering civillians, pretending to de-nazify Ukraine, sending young people from poor areas to their death, etc... is that what you are trying to justify and defend here?

Of course Russia hasn’t it easy on the global scale being an autocratic nation that isn't as vital as China. Criticise Nato as much as you like but Russia hasn't been in any danger of being invaded and by waging an imperialist war against Ukraine is doing exactly what he is trying to avoid, he is actively chasing countries in the arms of Nato cause they don't feel safe.

Also Ukrainians don't want to be occupied and killed so yeah no shit they want to be able to defend themselves.

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SW-User

@Gloomy [quote]They wouldn’t invade [/quote]

I know. Just like the US did not invade Iraq and Libya just to name a few. And just like there was radio silence in 1962.

[quote]Slaughtering civillians, pretending to de-nazify Ukraine, sending young people from poor areas to their death, etc... is that what you are trying to justify and defend here?
[/quote]

Well if Ukraine forces are hiding behind civilians and civilian infrastructure, there will be civilian casualties. By the way I wonder if you have similar concerns for civilians targeted by Ukrainian Forces in Belgorod and the child that was injured and lost both parents on the Kerch bridge (civilian infrastructure) hit by Ukraine which Zelensky identifies as a legitimate military target 🎯?

[quote]sending young people from poor areas to their death,[/quote] you are familiar with Ukraine's military recruitment methods I see.

[quote]but Russia hasn't been in any danger of being invaded [/quote]

Because NATO is this peaceful and loving organisation that demonstrates it's love and care for Russia by surrounding it with lovely beautiful bombs, aimed directly towards Moscow and its vital defence systems? Talk about love bombing.

[quote]Also Ukrainians don't want to be occupied and killed so yeah no shit they want to be able to defend themselves.[/quote]

The irony.

Edit: Kerch bridge, not Kursk.

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Gloomy · F

@SW-User your fascist apologism is boring. As much as I am not a fan of NATO countries are free to join and post Soviet Russia is very much a far right autocracy and in no way a victim. Putin locks up his own population opposing this war you are pathetic in supporting Russia.

Imperialist US has military bases around the globe yet in no way was Russia ever in danger of being invaded this feeling of being a threat are Putins lies which you are gullible to believe. US hegemony doesn't work like that.

Putin is to blame there was no necessity to invade a sovereign country. You are a despicable human being fuck I despise people like you who just exchange one form of imperialism for another.

SW-User

@Gloomy [quote]your fascist apologism is boring[/quote]

Boo! Try another one.

[quote]As much as I am not a fan of NATO [/quote]

Lol! I like how everyone is a "Putin simp" for pointing out facts about what lead to the war in Ukraine, but all you lot have to say is "as much as I'm not a fan of NATO", to get away from being seen as NATO simps? Is that a term?... 🤔 😂
.

[quote]Putin locks up his own population opposing this war you are pathetic in supporting Russia.[/quote]

I keep hearing about the huge number of Russians that left the country (not locked up or forced to stay) due to "Putin's war".... Must be a different Russia.

[quote]yet in no way was Russia ever in danger [/quote]

Of course. Because fuck Russia's security concerns. This level reasoning is astounding. NATO expands towards Russia, Russia is the aggressor...😂.

[quote]Putins lies which you are gullible to believe[/quote]

Lmao. Three examples of pre Putin non Russian sources stating NATO expansion would end in war, but fuck all that too because Putin man bad. 😂I love it.

[quote]Putin is to blame there was no necessity to invade a sovereign country.[/quote]

I'll repeat:

[quote]June 26, 1997, round about 50 foreign policy experts (made up of academics, former senate members and military officials) penned a letter to then president Bill Clinton opposing NATO expansion into Eastern Europe, signaling that it would be disastrous to do so. William Burns has been warning about it since 95'. George F. Kennan called it “the most fateful error of American policy in the entire post-Cold War era.” He died in 2005. So this idea that Putin just woke up and chose violence because he is just a petulant child is beyond me. Notice the years. Putin wasn't president then.[/quote]

So yes there was. It was stated long before Putin man bad was ever president of Russia.

[quote]You are a despicable human being fuck I despise people like you[/quote]

And here I was thinking we'd kiss through the phone and make SW babies....🥺.

Gloomy · F

@SW-User dude no one forces countries into Nato and yes Putins Russia is a far right authoritarian hellhole. Do you really simp for a fascist?

Also it was never planned for Ukraine to join Nato

Gloomy · F

@SW-User [quote]Lmao. More than three examples of pre Putin non Russian sources stating NATO expansion would end in war, but fuck all that too because Putin man bad. 😂I love it.[/quote]

Yes far right autocrats are bad 🤨

SW-User

@Gloomy [quote]dude no one forces countries into Nato [/quote]
Whether that be true or not, Russia still has security concerns. That's why neutrality is a thing, and why US, has concerns about rumors of Chinese bases in Cuba.

[quote]Do you really simp for a fascist?[/quote]

No, but obviously you simp for terrorist imperialist thugs. 😂.

Putin has an approval rating of between 85-90+%. Who the fuck are you? The Russians love him there and stood with him even during Prigozhins mutiny. You do realize to the Russians (the people of Russia), the west IS the problem? So then by your own words they should have the express right to suppress the collective west.🤦🏼

Gloomy · F

@SW-User I support Chinese bases on Cuba

Cause opposition is supressed dude there are no fair and free elections and freedom of press and freedom of expression is seriously limited. The human rights abuses against queer people for example are disgusting.

SW-User

@Gloomy [quote] I support Chinese bases on Cuba[/quote]

Oh goodie. The US DOESN'T! 😂.

[quote]Cause opposition is supressed dude there are no fair and free elections and freedom of press and freedom of expression is seriously limited. The human rights abuses against queer people for example are disgusting.
[/quote]

There's a huge section of the American population that would think you were talking about America. And as for human right abuses. That has never concerned the US when dealing with the Arabs and their oil. So fuck all that.

Gloomy · F

@SW-User yeah I don’t support the US system in any way but at least they are a means to aid Ukraine against far right Russia.

Gloomy · F

@SW-User yes fuck the US too but also fuck Russia. Russia is in no way better or morally above the US

SW-User

@Gloomy I don't think it's a matter of morality. Russia isn't doing anything the US wouldn't do if it were in the same predicament. Worse still US/NATO were warned, multiple times that expansion towards Russia would lead to catastrophe. It's unfortunate Ukraine is caught in the middle of it I agree with that. But Ukrainian leadership has allowed itself to be used as a proxy and it's population as cannon fodder.