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What is the difference between marxism and leninism...??

Be aware that while the maga cult is trashing the democrats with a neo marxist moniker,
Steve bannon declared himself a leninist.
HoraceGreenley · 56-60, M
@LordShadowfire You should probably look up the word self-evident
LordShadowfire · 46-50
@HoraceGreenley You should probably look up the phrase "burden of proof".
HoraceGreenley · 56-60, M
@LordShadowfire
Back at ya
CountScrofula · 41-45, M
> Steve bannon declared himself a leninist.

Amazing.

Marxism is following the political philosophy of Marx (and Engels) and that you believe in concepts like historical materialism, class struggle, and dialectical reasoning. Although communism is the end point of Marx, his entire thing was an analysis of capitalism and his belief of how the forces of history would resolve it. You can be a Marxist without being a communist.

Leninism is one form of -applied- Marxism and specifically looked at Lenin's rise to power and early decisions in the USSR and the theories backending them as Good Ideas. You have to be a communist if you're a Leninist.
CountScrofula · 41-45, M
@helenS God I don't want to be one of those "this is what Lenin wrote" since I literally read just the one chapter of state and revolution, but he explicitly argues that the withering away of the state is the same thing as the state being violently overthrown by proletariat revolution.

Or in short, this isn't a three-stage process of capitalism, communism, post-state communism. It's just capitalism then communism.
ninalanyon · 61-69, T
@helenS Unfortunately while the formal structure of the top levels of the government changed, the attitude to governing didn't really change that much. It continued, and continues now, to rely on authoritarianism and the supremacy of "who you know rather than what you know".
irishmolly72 · 56-60, F
@CountScrofula It's ok because Stalin took over and fixed everything. 🤪
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
marx was a comedian with a couple brothers, and lenin was a singer/songwriter in a rock and roll band
@tindrummer Possibly but we are talking about someone who is not exactly the brightest bulb in the box.
tindrummer · M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow right, but not that ignorant
irishmolly72 · 56-60, F
@sunsporter1649 Yes! And LSD was just Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds!
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
The difference between idealism (Marxism) and the misguided application of those same ideals ( Leninism).

What is notable that Marx never thought about the applications. His ideals were just that, ideals.

Like saying taoism is a religion, which I have been guilty of because it's being practiced. Not just an ideal. Yet their are no deities in taosim. So many don't consider taoism a religion.

So is Marxism not an application as Leninism is, as misguided as Lenin's application was.
irishmolly72 · 56-60, F
@DeWayfarer Yes, it was as "misguided" as Ted Bundy's approach to women.

The concentration of power such as happened with Bolshevism leads to such "misguided" behaviors over and over again.
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@irishmolly72 yet there are those that claim the two are so similar as to be the same. You see it even in some of the replies on this post. 😞

Not saying Marxism is workable. Just that it never was meant to be practical. It's an "ideal".
irishmolly72 · 56-60, F
I'm no expert on this, but didn't Marx propose that capitalism would just fall apart naturally over time and that the proletariat would take over, whereas Lenin's position was that a powerful army and government needed to destroy the capitalists.

Regardless of the specifics, the marxist-leninist movement murdered more people than any other phenomenon in the history of mankind.... and it's not even close.
Carla · 61-69, F
@Slade crawl back into your sludge pool slade. You are stinking up my post.
CountScrofula · 41-45, M
@helenS Yeah absolutely. What I'm saying is his throwaway observation, even that early on, is something that's been repeated throughout left history. You step out against the economic status quo the knives are out from all sides.

And yeah Marx's analysis of capitalism is unbelievably important, he just made the same foolish mistake a million others have. He tried to predict the future. I actually think it's kind of hilarious how the Bolsheviks really wanted to overthrow capitalism, but had a feudal state so were stuck hoping for a liberal revolution first so they could then progress to communism. I guess that sorta happened.
Slade · 56-60, M
@Carla Cope Harder! 🤣
tindrummer · M
lenin added "dictatorship of the proletariat" to pure marxism and dictatorship the soviet union became - like russia is now
tindrummer · M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow "anecdotes" - you could have asked my wife's parents or our many russian friends about that
We're done here.
@tindrummer See my previous point.
irishmolly72 · 56-60, F
@tindrummer But he was a hell of a B-ball player.

[quote]What is the difference between marxism and leninism[/quote]

Marxism is Socialism with the idea that one day a socialist society will transition into Communism on its own.
Leninism is a form of Authoritarianism dressed up as Socialism. "Marxism-Leninism" isn't a thing, it's really just Leninism.

[quote]Steve bannon declared himself a leninist.[/quote]

No surprise there. A lot of Fascists admire fellow authoritarians like Lenin, Stalin, and Mao.
Nick Fuentes is a Nazi who talks about the evils of "Cultural Marxism" but then has praised Stalin a bunch of times. Because really, he knows that Stalin wasn't a Marxist. Stalin was authoritarian much like the Nazis and the Fascists.
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
The MAGA cult is just that, a cult of angry people, mostly white Anglo-Saxon men, who feel personally under attack, and left out. They "fall" for anyone who plays into this. I didn't not think they fall into any specific category, nor do they have any idea of what they really want. They claim libertarianism, until they need help, they want government to disappear, but are against anarchy.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@MasterLee No, i have no desire to talk about Marxism or Leninism, or anarchy. What would you like better?
MasterLee · 56-60, M
@samueltyler2 capitalism works
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@MasterLee only if you are in the higher income brackets, i doubt the poor will agree
Context is everything. Based on this, more than half the country would identify as "Leninists" today.

ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
"Marxist system aims at a state of living where the society is bereft of the difference between the rich and the poor. On the other hand, Leninism is a kind of a political system that practices dictatorship. It is the dictatorship of the proletariat."

Basically, one is an ideal that doesn't exist, the second just another totalitarian state run by an elite.
smiler2012 · 56-60
{@carla] 😯wow that is a revelation trump has got a leftist of centre in his party.😆i am not surprised if trump has him lynched for his ideals
smiler2012 · 56-60
@sunsporter1649 really i do not resort too childish abuse i think i have told you this many times before .if you can accept my opinion please use the block button and do me a great favour as you are just abusive to me and not a very nice person
Carla · 61-69, F
@smiler2012 please ignore ole sporto. They don't let him out very often. I think he misses his duck.
irishmolly72 · 56-60, F
@sunsporter1649 crap doesn't break glass. I tried it once.
Carla · 61-69, F
I wish to thank you all for your thoughtful input.
Right wingers have no clue what any of these terms mean so whatever Steve Bannon says can be dismissed immediately.


Marxism is a blanket term for anyone who subscribes to the political and economic ideas of Marx and Engels.

A Leninist is someone who also follows the writings of Lenin.
MasterLee · 56-60, M
Who would you rather be oppressed by.
TexChik · F
And that matters because? Cant say anything good about the deeds or your socialist idols so you have to start bashing and blaming random people? When only socialists claim something, odds are that claim isn't truthful.
Carla · 61-69, F
@TexChik well, as always, you are unable to answer the question asked.
Typical.
well.. marx was dreamer. he wanted the workers to hold power.
lenin was more of a state ownership kinda guy...

unless i misseda john lennon joke here...
Spotpot · 41-45, M
Lenin belived in council democracy not liberal democracy.
ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
@Spotpot Lenin was a murderous dictator who believed in himself.
Havesomefun2 · 56-60, M
Karl Marx wrote that book only because engles supported him
LordShadowfire · 46-50
@Havesomefun2 Yeah, that isn't what the op asked.
Human1000 · M
According to MAGA you can be a capitalist and Marxist at the same time. It's quite a hat trick.
irishmolly72 · 56-60, F
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow
Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
@irishmolly72 I am sure you think that makes sense and is relevant somehow.
@irishmolly72 Speaks volumes that you can't actually address the ignorance and lack of education of right wingers.
Slade · 56-60, M
You adore communism and call others cultists.

Kook
Carla · 61-69, F
@Slade no. You have me mistaken for someone else.
The Russian revolution was Lenin's main concern.
LordShadowfire · 46-50
Karl Marx imagined in his optimistic naïvete that the proletariat, or common people, would simply rise up on their own and demand an overthrow of the old way of doing things. Lenin correctly surmised that a sort of revolutionary leader would be needed to unite the people.

Unfortunately, that means that while Marxism called for a temporary dictatorship while things were set in motion, Leninism, both in practice and in theory, inevitably leads to a country like the USSR.
irishmolly72 · 56-60, F
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
Carla · 61-69, F
@LvChris i googled this. I will find and watch it🙂
MethDozer · M
Long story short by an idiot?

Essentially the idea that a violent any means necessary over throw by a people's vanguard is the only effective means over transition through existing frameworks. That the result needs to be a "democratic " (pseudo-democratic in practice) one party dictatorship of the proletariat in control of a socialist goverment made up of elected councils (soviets) representing various factions of the proletariat, military, former peasentry, and intelligencia. Also that for communism to ever be achieved there needs to be active support and influence worldwide for other overthrows of capitalist regimes. All gathered behind a revolutionary figurehead to rally the cause.
irishmolly72 · 56-60, F
@MethDozer In the meantime, capitalism and freedom were elevating people out of poverty by the billions. Just sayin'

MethDozer · M
@irishmolly72 I like how you quote the man who ruined the country to prove your point.
Gloomy · F
@irishmolly72 there is no freedom under capitalism just economic coercion being sold to you as "freedom".
Also the "third world" on the backs of which capitalist consumerism is built would disagree.

 
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