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Is tipping an expression of gratitude or a mandatory payment?

Is tip part of the chargeable fee? Is it mandatory or is it a social norm? If the institution expects the customer to tip, why not add that on the original bill?

Isn't the client paying for the product and service already? I love a gesture of appreciation for a good service , but if it's expected how can it be a gesture of gratitude.?
AngelJade · 22-25, F
I see it as [b]T[/b]o [b]I[/b]nsure [b]P[/b]rompt [b]S[/b] I have been to restaurants where Tips are included mandatory and the servers simply ignore you and good luck trying to ask for a manager because you'll be waiting an extra 30+ minutes simply to complain about the poor service.

It is getting out of hand though, when you go to drive through fast food place and they want you to leave a tip. I am not going to tip for someone simply doing their job.

Places like that are getting way out of hand.

I only tip when someone actually takes my order, brings my food and does that kind of work as that way I can ask questions.

If I order it myself, drive through or inside then sit down and then clean up my own table I see no point in tipping.

I used to be a server at a Fancy Mexican restaurant and I had no problem earning lots in tips. Many employee's though don't want to work they will talk to friends and avoid annoying customers then complain about getting screwed on the tip.
4meAndyou · F
@AngelJade That strikes home. I think the most shocking thing that happened to me as regards tipping was when I went into a sub shop and ordered at the counter, then waited for the order so that I could take it home. The counter lady [i]asked[/i] for a tip. !!!!!😶‍🌫️
Renkon · 36-40, M
@AngelJade With your comment, you hit the nail on the head.
People are increasingly thinking tipping mandatory, and it can occasionally go out of hand.
AngelJade · 22-25, F
@4meAndyou Exactly, they did their job of making a sandwich no reason we need to tip for that.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
A very good point.

It's not done to tip most services people, only restaurant and hotel staff, taxi-drivers, one or two others perhaps; but these are usually on low pay or (the drivers) self-employed.

I have no compunction about dropping some coins in a jar on the counter, and I often do that.

Unfortunately the widespread use now of paying by bank-card or telephone, and a growing idea that no-one needs use cash even to buy a bar of chocolate, has led to businesses putting gratuity requests on their card-readers. Since the staff-member is holding that in front of you personally, it leads to tipping by guilt more than gratitude, and in set steps of 0 (no tip) or [i]so-many [/i]%.

It feels demanded and impersonal.
Renkon · 36-40, M
@ArishMell 'It feels demanded and impersonal.'
That's exactly what I was thinking. It is becoming increasingly arbitrary rather than voluntary.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@Renkon Losing its point in the process.
TheunderdogofNY · 36-40, M
It's a social norm in the US. But it's the expectation of a tip that turns me off. Tips should be earned not simply given just because.
CountScrofula · 41-45, M
Tipping is a profoundly stupid process and I hate it. But in order to fix that, we need to pay restaurant staff (and elsewhere) a better salary and you're not doing that without some serious new laws. So until then, I tip very well.
Bleak · 36-40, F
For me it is the expression of gratitude.
Renkon · 36-40, M
@Bleak Then it's great for both the giver and receiver.
Bleak · 36-40, F
@Renkon To be honest, even if the service is not great, I will still pay my gratitude. Because everyone has his share of pain. The labour class is really working hard to make both ends meet.
Renkon · 36-40, M
@Bleak That's true.
DunningKruger · 61-69, M
Tipping should be a reward for good service, but in this day and age, employers are allowed to pay workers such as waiters below the minimum wage because tips are counted as income. Because of that, tips have become a mandatory payment, unless you're a tool.
MartinTheFirst · 22-25, M
@DunningKruger In this day and age in america* it's literally not a problem anywhere else in the world and the mandatory tipping culture is enabling it for you guys.
RoxClymer · 41-45, M
I will give you an example, or rather a reverse example from an American view-

was coversing with a woman from a country that doesn't tip, she was at a bar having a drink or 3, getting Absolute shit service from a new bartender, she HAD to pay the 'included' price.

here in America we pay a lower price and leave a tip we think the the case of this bartender, after a week or two, maybe a month he would get his shit together after receiving a fraction of the tips other wait staff receives, and improve his other countries, he has no incentive to improve.
Renkon · 36-40, M
@RoxClymer Other countries, I noticed, do not require tipping as part of the payment. You can tip however much you like, if you like. The employees do not frown or complain

Smaller eateries and tea shops, which are usually managed and served by the owner, do not require a gratuity.

Perhaps it is due to differences in job and wage structures between countries.
SteelHands · 61-69, M
It's not obligatory but it is how to show dissatisfaction with the meal politely.

Restaurants operate on thin margins because they're very competitive so tips keep highly reliable and friendly staff around.
Lukeman · M
You only should pay out of gratitude for good service so as to insure proper service.
Renkon · 36-40, M
@Lukeman That's what I was thinking too.
@Lukeman You should pay a tip for great service, not for average service.
chubbysteve99 · 51-55, M
depends on where you live in the world.

is the US definitely mandatory due to poor wages
here in Australia, definely and expression of gratitude and is not that common
@chubbysteve99 Yes, there are people who think that.

However, wages have increased.
chubbysteve99 · 51-55, M
@SomeMichGuy to give you some perspective here basic hospitality wages start at around 18USD mon - fri for inexperienced staff to 26USD for Sundays per hour and for experienced staff it is 23USD Mon - Fri and 32USD for Sundays. at the current exchange rates.
@chubbysteve99 There have been increases in the "minimum wage" both Federally--which applies if the State minimum is *lower*--and for many States.

As @DunningKruger very correctly states, some jobs (waiters, waitresses) have been shielded from the minimum because of the notion that "tips are part of the income"...

I was looking at a table of this earlier in the year, and *most* States have minumum wages *greater* than the Federal minimum.

Of course, labor is a market, and jobs are going unfilled, meaning there is a natural upward pressure on pay in addition to *finally* doing something about the minimum wage. The US has allowed minimum wages to languish for YEARS, which means we have not taken care of our "neighbor" by allowing them to make a reasonable wage.

Thanks for the data from Oz! 😊
smiler2012 · 56-60
{@renkon] think if you receive good service and people have gone over and above too provide this i think a little gratuity is not unreasonable for this
smiler2012 · 56-60
@Renkon there maybe a reason some do not tip tight fisted when the service had been excellent or just not happy with the service as you rightly point out personal choice
ninalanyon · 61-69, T
@smiler2012 Do you tip bus drivers? Supermarket cashiers? The employee in a big box store who leads you to the proper part of the store to find what you want to buy?
smiler2012 · 56-60
@ninalanyon no of course not in restaurants it is a sort of part of the service but i do understand what you mean why gratituities in that one area
chrisCA · M
It is an expression of gratitude, but in a way it could be mandatory.
How well you tip can determine how you are treated the next time you patronize that establishment.
4meAndyou · F
It is supposed to be an expression of gratitude for good service. However, there are those who don't just [i]expect[/i] a tip for the lousy service they provide, but demand it.
ninalanyon · 61-69, T
It's part of an unconscious conspiracy on the part of the customers and employers (aided by the state) to keep waiter's wages down.
Renkon · 36-40, M
@ninalanyon That's a malignant act.
Donotfolowme · 51-55, F
Social norm I gave on my trip to Holland where it's not even a thing and waitress said no I was super happy with her service
Renkon · 36-40, M
@Donotfolowme I guess it depends on the country and society.
@Donotfolowme ...she thought you were asking for..."more"... 😉🤣
It's part of the inequality we all accept!
TrashCat · M
Tipping is a form of slavery.
In the U.S., you’re basically helping some restaurants pay their staff, because the "gratuity" is calculated into the bill, whether you intended to tip or not. There’s even a saying among some of my countrymen, "If you can’t afford to tip, you can’t afford to eat out."

Possibly why there are so many fast food "drive-thrus"; no tipping is required.
Renkon · 36-40, M
@bijouxbroussard That make sense.

[quote]"gratuity" is calculated into the bill,[/quote]
So essentially we tipping them double?

Aren't they supposed to pay their employees like any other business? These wages are factored into their costs. Why is it the client's responsibility?

[quote] There’s even a saying among some of my countrymen, "If you can’t afford to tip, you can’t afford to eat out." [/quote]
I am finding it hard to agree with this. In this line of reasoning, we should tip the nurse who cares for us at the hospital or any service sector employees.
@Renkon I’m [b]not[/b] saying it’s logical, although choosing to go out to eat is hardly like needing a nurse’s care. But in the U.S. that does tend to be how tipping works in many restaurants.
Renkon · 36-40, M
@bijouxbroussard hmm.. May be it's something to do the US or a particular social norm.
MartinTheFirst · 22-25, M
You tip if the waiter gave you an exceptional time and the food was reasonably inexpensive

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