God created the uninverse.

There has always been God/existance. The 'accidental' big bang theory is a stupid theory without an intelligent creator guiding creation. My husband has been creating a big bang in his garage, things accidentally colliding and making a massive mess rarely result in beauty and order without a guiding hand. I doubt the garage will change into beauty and order unless at some point he decides to order it through intelligent design. 🤷‍♀️

Big bang theory. Otherwise who created this god. I find it absurd to take an overevised book so seriously as truth. Do you believe the atmosphere was surrounded by water at some point to create the flood? The truth is religious people shouldn't believe in a solar system other planets and the sun. Oh yeah that's right, the human beings who wrote religion to control the masses were dumb as fuck back then ergo it's not in your texts....go ahead, stay in the dark the way religions authors and cultists intended. After generational turnover, you religious fools will be dead anyways

Hi LordShadowfire, thanks for posting in my thread, what are you talking about, please let me know.

The thread is about God created the universe.


I am very keen to read your thought the most important one, and please make it brief plus sharply focused.

Forgive me, still perhaps you can limit your thought the most important one to say 75 words.


===================
LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
Hi PrincessOfHell, you allege that I believe there is nothing outside of God's reality, that is not the fact and the truth, the fact and the truth is that there are realities outside God's reality, because God created everything that is not God Himself.
Well, which is it? Did God create everything, or are there things outside of his reality? You can't have it both ways.
Tell me, has there always been something existing or not, i.e. there has never been ever anything existing at all.
False dichotomy fallacy. You're pretending there are only two possibilities, and saying anyone who thinks differently is stupid.

===================

LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
Hi PrincessOfHell, you allege that I believe there is nothing outside of God's reality, that is not the fact and the truth, the fact and the truth is that there are realities outside God's reality, because God created everything that is not God Himself.
Well, which is it? Did God create everything, or are there things outside of his reality? You can't have it both ways.
Tell me, has there always been something existing or not, i.e. there has never been ever anything existing at all.
False dichotomy fallacy. You're pretending there are only two possibilities, and saying anyone who thinks differently is stupid.

Answer gods existence, and how God created something from nothing. Guess what? Your answer will be magic! xD enjoy your blind faith and comradere in religious community and discrimination. Because it's oh so practical. 'oh wait, you aren't allowed to question anything if you are religious, it's the only way to keep people from losing faith so you can't even process it' good day sir

Hi Corvus, here is my proof of God exists:

1. God is the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

2. Now, Corvus, let us go forth into objective reality to search for God, is that okay with you?

3. We find in objective reality that there are evidences of God existing, for example, there are roses and babies in the neighborhood.

4. Therefore, God exists as the permenent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.



============

CorvusBlackthorne · 46-50, M
@yrger
Hi Corvus, you are being naive, don't you know that the party making the claim has the burden to prove his claim?
Then prove your claim of a god.

Hi Emosaur, please bring forth just one point in your long post, and we will discuss it, okay?!



=============

Emosaur · 22-25, M
@yrger
there is from our intelligence

"Our intelligence"? Who exactly is "we" here? Can't possibly include me as I'm not convinced of any deity's existence.



For evidence of such a God, look at yourself, without God you would not be able to demonstrate anything at all, but behave like frog.

Again, you're making a false equivalence between "a god" and "God". As you don't seem to understand this concept, allow me to explain it this way; it's as if you randomly went back and forth between talking about "an animal" (an unspecified animal) and "a cat" (a specified animal). The mistake you're making is that, figuratively, you keep describing something that could be virtually any animal, however then refer to that animal as a "cat" even though nothing you said explicitly implies you're talking about a cat, plus you say a few things which actually don't describe a cat at all. Hope you understand now.
I'm also sensing some personal incredulity here as you clearly lack understanding of concepts such as evolution and conlude that because you don't personally understand it, that therefore the specific deity you believe in must be the answer.
And also, are you implying frogs weren't created by your deity?

Hi Ynotisay, there are three ways humans can know God exists:

1. By reasoning
2. By reading the Bible (or the Koran for Muslims)
3. By meditation

I am concentrating on coming to the knowledge of God by Num 1 - reasoning.

And here is my latest definition of God:
"God is the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient."



==========================

Ynotisay · M
@yrger Who the hell are you to say that to someone dude? Follow up. Don't you god people take anything you read in your little book seriously? Because, according to that book, you're toast for that kind of behavior. Might want to slow your roll with the arrogance a little bit. Wish you guys would walk the walk. But that's not what it's about, right?

Philippians 2:3
Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.

1 Timothy 6:4-5
He is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain.

Proverbs 16:5
Everyone who is arrogant in heart is an abomination to the Lord; be assured, he will not go unpunished.

Hi LordShadowfire, thanks for the compliment.

You keep coming back to my posts because you are hardwired to perceive reason and facts and truths.



=====================

LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
@yrger What I know is that you couldn't reason your way out of a wet paper bag. You've demonstrated this over and over. I don't know why I keep coming back to your posts, when I know damn well you can't be reasoned with. A very smart man once said that you can't use logic and reason to get people to abandon a viewpoint they didn't arrive at through logic and reason.

Hi LordShadowfire, I say that there are only two possibilities, meaning one of the two is not possible, do you get my point?

(1) There has always been something existing, that is the reality, it's the fact and the truth.
(2) There has always been nothingness which is impossible, because nothingness cannot exist at all.


Okay, let you tell me what are all the possibilities from your knowledge of possibiliities and impossibilities.



====================

LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
Hi PrincessOfHell, you allege that I believe there is nothing outside of God's reality, that is not the fact and the truth, the fact and the truth is that there are realities outside God's reality, because God created everything that is not God Himself.
Well, which is it? Did God create everything, or are there things outside of his reality? You can't have it both ways.
Tell me, has there always been something existing or not, i.e. there has never been ever anything existing at all.
False dichotomy fallacy. You're pretending there are only two possibilities, and saying anyone who thinks differently is stupid.

Hi PrincessOfHell, you allege that I believe there is nothing outside of God's reality, that is not the fact and the truth, the fact and the truth is that there are realities outside God's reality, because God created everything that is not God Himself.


So, you are completely wrong with your wrong knowledge



==================

PrincessOfHell · F
@yrger You run away from the topic cause you know that even if your definition of God would be correct it wouldn't matter.

You say humans are evidence of God's reality yet also believe(?) there is nothing outside of Gods reality(?). Since your God is everything you could point towards anything and call it "evidence".

According to your definition God has no plan or guidelines for humanity since he is nothing but a container. You say nothingness never existed because God was always there and created the universe. How do you think God looked like before creating the Earth?

Seems like the only difference between you and Atheists is the terminology. You call it God others nothingness. Either way we evolved the way we did. Intelligent design or not it doesn't matter.

Hi Doc, you say, "You don’t even have an original argument. Just more of the same old bullshit."

That is very interesting, you want to talk argumentation, let us first agree on how to argue, okay?!


First, abstain from getting overly emotional, then think up reasons to rebut my view that for example, there has always been existence, even before intelligent humans appeared in the world.


===================

DocSavage · M
@yrger
Your attitude which is psychological is one of acquired hatred against God, go and see a psychiatrist.
Bollocks
And how very christian of you. We don’t agree, so we must hate god. You don’t even have an original argument. Just more of the same old bullshit.
Obviously a psychiatrist didn’t do you any good, perhaps you should go with that full frontal lobotomy after all. It’s not like you have any personality left to lose.

And for the record. I don’t hate god, I don’t believe in it. I just think your definition of god is, (in the words of the late, great Vernon Dent) “ Completely illogical, preponderantly impractical
And moreover it stinks “

Hi LeopoldBloom, that is not begging the question, because as we now know what is the thing we are talking about, by defining it - we can go forth into the world to look for it.

Hi everyone here, there is no circular reasoning except in your mind, for with a definition of the thing we can now go forth into the world outside our mind to look for the object that satisfies our definition.


================

LeopoldBloom · M
You're begging the question; that is, assuming the answer in advance. You define "God" as "creator," then point to material reality as "proof." It's a form of circular reasoning - a logical fallacy.

If we define the Big Bang as the initiation of space and time, it is impossible that this was caused by the act of will of a sentient being. An act of will has two components - conception and execution. These are only meaningful within the arrow of time. Therefore, your "creator" is within the arrow of time, meaning time existed before the Big Bang. So your "creator" did not initiate time. So what was he doing during those aeons of endless eternity before he decided, for no reason, to suddenly create the universe?

If your god can be self existent, is there any practical reason the universe itself can’t be self existent as well ?
You haven’t explained why it would need a creator with intent. Or why this creator needs to be permanent, or why a spirit would create a material universe if it had no need of physical features or form.
If you are truly willing to discuss the matter honestly. Start with these.
You already have several here willing to address each. Without malice.
Are you up to the challenge? Or are you too scared ?

Hi DocSavage, you are not logical but psychological.

Logically there is always even before man appeared, the existence that is God, the permanent and self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

Your attitude which is psychological is one of acquired hatred against God, go and see a psychiatrist.


==============

DocSavage · M
By God I mean "the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient."

As I stated once before. Your opinion of a god is far too human to be practical. It still holds to the idea that the universe was created for a purpose, by an intelligent, self aware being with magical powers, and with an agenda in which our “souls” have some kind of value. Henceforth your upgrade to a “spirit” creator.
You have a universe, but it doesn’t need an intent , nor does it need a permanent creator to watch over it. The concept of both, is purely a human invention. With no evidence to support it. Our knowledge of it is far to limited for such a conclusion.

Hi Pride, suppose you tell me who or what triggered the Big Bang?

And also what is your definition of God, and also what is your definition of universe?

Finally, please describe the event of the Big Bang.


=============================

pride49 · 26-30, M
Big bang theory. Otherwise who created this god. I find it absurd to take an overevised book so seriously as truth. Do you believe the atmosphere was surrounded by water at some point to create the flood? The truth is religious people shouldn't believe in a solar system other planets and the sun. Oh yeah that's right, the human beings who wrote religion to control the masses were dumb as fuck back then ergo it's not in your texts....go ahead, stay in the dark the way religions authors and cultists intended. After generational turnover, you religious fools will be dead anyways

Hi PrincessOfHell, I can also posit the following purely conditional proposition:

if everyone is their own God there would be a purepose in worshipping a specific God. If everyone is significant why worship the biblical God or anyone but yourself?


This is all a silly game, let us talk about the fact and the truth that before the universe began existing, God as the permanent self-existent spirit has been the reality creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

And we humans are the evidence of God's reality.



===================

PrincessOfHell · F
@yrger Sure you could but then I'd say if everyone is their own God there would be no use in worshipping a specific God. If everyone is significant why worship the biblical God or anyone but yourself?

Hi CorvusBlackthorne, please do intelligent thinking on the fact and the truth that there are roses and babies in the neighborhood - ultimately what or who brought them into existence.


=================

yrger · 80-89, M
Hi Corvus, here is my proof of God exists:

1. God is the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

2. Now, Corvus, let us go forth into objective reality to search for God, is that okay with you?

3. We find in objective reality that there are evidences of God existing, for example, there are roses and babies in the neighborhood.

4. Therefore, God exists as the permenent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

Hi Corvus, you are being naive, don't you know that the party making the claim has the burden to prove his claim?

How do you prove that you are a raven?

Simple, make sounds* that the raven makes, okay?!


So, Corvus, I am waiting for you to make sounds the raven makes, then I will experience hearing the sounds, there - that is the way for you to prove something exists, by enabling people to see or hear or taste or touch or smell etc what you see etc.


*
Common Ravens make many different kinds of calls varying from a low, gurgling croak to harsh grating sounds and shrill alarm calls. Scientists have placed their vocalizations into as many as 33 different categories based on sound and context.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=what+sounnds+does+the+raven+make




======================

CorvusBlackthorne · 46-50, M
I am an anthropomorphic raven with hands. I stand at a height of four feet, and I arrived here on Earth ten years ago in a spacecraft.

Can you disprove any of that?

My aunt created the Universe with 2 quarts of warm soapy water😂😂😂😂🐠🐠

Hi everyone, the universe is composed of parts and bits, there is a spirit that is God who is the master mind that made the parts and bits and put them together.

That is why my latest definition of God is as follows:
God is the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

Hi LordShadowfire, you allege that I am one of a cult with the same arguments and fallacies.

So, let me learn from you, what is just one argument from me that is a fallacy, okay!?


And please abstain from getting too emotional, that is not the way to argue, unless you are into shouting match instead of reasoning.



===================

LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
@yrger
then from nothingness somethingness just sprang forth into existence?
Why is it that every blowhard idiot creationist in existence eventually uses that straw man to represent people who disagree with them? I mean, I get that you guys are a cult, but must you all use the exact same arguments and fallacies, like you're millions of people using one single brain?

Hi everyone, thanks for participating in my thread.

I like us all to concentrate on this text from below:



========================

God created the uninverse.
By God I mean "the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient."

And by universe I mean the composite collection of parts and bits creaded by God, of which humans are one such parts and bits, and thus humans are evidence to the existence of God.


Okay, I will start saying that there has always been existence instead of non-existence, and this existence is God.


Hi everyone here, do you agree with me that there has always been existence, or you hold that there was never any existence, then from nothingness somethingness just sprang forth into existence?

I think if you hold that position, you are absurd, period.

Hi Whodunnit, if you know about a universe previous to the one I am talking about, please start your own thread on the universe you know about previous to the universe I am talking about.

But I tell you, don't multiply things without necessity.



====================

Whodunnit · 41-45, M
What about the universe before this one?

Hi LordShadowfire, there is evidence for God creating the universe. But we have to agree on what is evidence, otherwise it is a waste of time for us both: with you saying my evidence is not evidence, and I insisting it is.


So, will you be first to define what is evidence or me?

And since we both use the word evidence, both you and I do have an idea of what is evidence, so no need go to dictionaries.


Tell me, when you reply to this post, whether you want to be first or me to be first, to present the idea of evidence.



===============

LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
This is so typical. You ask what created the universe, you get an answer, and you demand to know what came before the universe. Then, when people don't know the answer to that, you're all, "AHA! Goddidit!" with no evidence whatsoever.

Hi Emosaur, there is from our intelligence the idea that before anything at all came into existence, there is already the God that is the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.


For evidence of such a God, look at yourself, without God you would not be able to demonstrate anything at all, but behave like frog.


==============

Emosaur · 22-25, M
@Patientlywaiting 1. Please demonstrate your god exists.

2. Please educate yourself and look up the definition of a scientific theory.

3. Have you ever actually studied the universe a little? It's a place of chaos without any "order" that couldn't be explained with basic physics (gravity).

Hi Doc, the universe cannot be self-existent because it has a beginning.



=====================

DocSavage · M
If your god can be self existent, is there any practical reason the universe itself can’t be self existent as well ?
You haven’t explained why it would need a creator with intent. Or why this creator needs to be permanent, or why a spirit would create a material universe if it had no need of physical features or form.
If you are truly willing to discuss the matter honestly. Start with these.
You already have several here willing to address each. Without malice.
Are you up to the challenge? Or are you too scared ?

Hi jshm2, I can't make out what you are saying at all.

Suppose you just sort out your words and bring forth your number 1 point in just less than 10 words.


By the way, you emphasize this word, "sentience".

Did you ever come across it in my definition of God?


Here is my definition of God: God is the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.



===================

jshm2 · 41-45, M
Most people who argue the point like that are arguing "sentience" rather than God. We know nothing can exist indefinitely, but we also know nothing can live and die infinitely either. So either God is outside the purview of mortality or a system exists which we as mortals can never know.

Hi PrincessOfHell, you are not thinking correctly at all.

Here is a test for people to know whether yu can think correctly:

Tell me, has there always been something existing or not, i.e. there has never been ever anything existing at all.


=====================

PrincessOfHell · F
@yrger You contradict yourself. You write that there has always been existence and that existence is God himself so how can there be a reality outside of God if God is everything.

You are incoherent, stupid and have no facts to back up your insane definitions. You contradict yourself regulary and create these extra posts so that no one can follow your line of thought.

You are a big waste of time.

You're begging the question; that is, assuming the answer in advance. You define "God" as "creator," then point to material reality as "proof." It's a form of circular reasoning - a logical fallacy.

If we define the Big Bang as the initiation of space and time, it is impossible that this was caused by the act of will of a sentient being. An act of will has two components - conception and execution. These are only meaningful within the arrow of time. Therefore, your "creator" is within the arrow of time, meaning time existed before the Big Bang. So your "creator" did not initiate time. So what was he doing during those aeons of endless eternity before he decided, for no reason, to suddenly create the universe?

Hi LordSh, you want me to prove that God compressed everything into the singularity, He is the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.


Before I will prove and you will disprove, we have got to agree on what it is to prove something to exist, and to prove that it doesn't exist.


So, who is going to be first to proffer the definition of 'to prove' and/or to disprove, you or I?



==================

LordSh
adowfire · 46-50, M
@yrger
God compressed everything into the singularity, He is the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

Hi pride49, please reduce your post to some 75 words only, so that you will get to deliver a sharp point, instead of some vague insinuations of all kinds.


==========================

pride49 · 26-30, M
Answer gods existence, and how God created something from nothing. Guess what? Your answer will be magic! xD enjoy your blind faith and comradere in religious community and discrimination. Because it's oh so practical. 'oh wait, you aren't allowed to question anything if you are religious, it's the only way to keep people from losing faith so you can't even process it' good day sir

Hi LordShadowfire, do you understand how and why I come to know God from reasoning.



LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
@yrger

As I stated once before. Your opinion of a god is far too human to be practical. It still holds to the idea that the universe was created for a purpose, by an intelligent, self aware being with magical powers, and with an agenda in which our “souls” have some kind of value. Henceforth your upgrade to a “spirit” creator.
You have a universe, but it doesn’t need an intent , nor does it need a permanent creator to watch over it. The concept of both, is purely a human invention. With no evidence to support it. Our knowledge of it is far to limited for such a conclusion.

Hi everyone, science tells us the universe has a beginning, therefore I conclude that the being that gave the universe its beginning is ultimately the spirit that is God, and that is why my latest definition of God is the following:

God is the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

Hi Patientlywaiting, I agree with you.


=============

Patientlywaiting · 41-45, F
There has always been God/existance. The 'accidental' big bang theory is a stupid theory without an intelligent creator guiding creation. My husband has been creating a big bang in his garage, things accidentally colliding and making a massive mess rarely result in beauty and order without a guiding hand. I doubt the garage will change into beauty and order unless at some point he decides to order it through intelligent design. 🤷‍♀️

Hi LordShadowfire, you are using the third person passive anonymous - "Everything was compressed into a singularity."

God compressed everything into the singularity, He is the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.


===================

LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
@yrger This one does. Everything was compressed into a singularity. But SOMEthing had to exist to be compressed.

Hi LordShadowfire, please cite the text in Genesis chapter 1 which indicates that there was nothing 'of' what - don't neglect to state the chapter and verse and from what Bible edition.


To everyone, if you haf posted and I have not replied to you, please give notice to me, okay.



===============

LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
@yrger You appear to be ignorant of Genesis chapter 1, which says that there was nothing.

If God = existence wouldn't that make everyone and anything God leading to God being insignificant.

Hi PrincessOfHell, you are making a purely conditional proposition, I can also make the opposite purely conditional proposition thus:

If God = existence wouldn't that make everyone and anything God leading to God being significant.



==============

PrincessOfHell · F
If God = existence wouldn't that make everyone and anything God leading to God being insignificant.

Hi BohemianBoo, and God also created ya butt.



===================

BohemianBoo · 18-21, M
God created ya butt.

Hi CorvusBlackthorne, okay, let you start the discussion you want with me, okay?!


================

CorvusBlackthorne · 46-50, M
@yrger It is not my fault that your intellect is too lacking to comprehend what I have written. There is no such thing as a "fallacy of loquacity". Telling me to "go jump in a lake" tells me that you have not the maturity to engage in a discussion of this nature.

Hi everyone who is intent on showing that nothingness can be the source of somethingness, so no need of God to create the universe. Please read Krauss, and forever you can jettison God into free fall or drop in outer space.


=================

yrger · 80-89, M
Hi everyone, what do you say about the 'proof' by Lawrence M. Krauss that the universe came from nothing.

Hi LordShadowfire, you say:

"There is an AGREED UPON DEFINITION, used by MILLIONS OF PEOPLE!"

Okay then, present it for me to read it.



================

LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
@yrger
Seriously!? There is an AGREED UPON DEFINITION, used by MILLIONS OF PEOPLE! It's not my fault you're this ignorant!

Hi Ynotisay, I am talking about this God as I defined Him at the start of the thread:

"God is the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient."



=================

Ynotisay · M
Which god are you talking about partner? There's a WHOLE bunch of 'em.

Hi CorvusBlackthorne, you and I must agree on what is evidence, before we can talk about evidence for God's existence, or no evidence.


================

CorvusBlackthorne · 46-50, M

@yrger

I am Yrger and I care to talk with an atheist on a 1 to 1 basis, so what do you say, any atheist who thinks and thinks instead of being all the time emotional.

Hi CorvusBlackthorne and everyone demanding evidence, do you know what is evidence, if so define it right now in less than 45 words.

Hi everyone, would you care to research on the existence of spirits as distinct and above material/physical beings.

Hi everyone, what do you say about the 'proof' by Lawrence M. Krauss that the universe came from nothing.