@LeopoldBloom I like how you never miss an opportunity to spew negativity about Orange .

@dancingtongue A two state solution was achieved when Clinton was POTUS. Arafat
agreed with the aslo accord, the ink had not dried before he continued the attacks on
Israel.

The Pals have proved over and over they DO NOT want a two state solution, they want
the Jews OUT OF ISRAEL. They are NOT NEGOCIATING.

@DogMan [quote]Talk about strawman 🙄 You are partially right though, teachers should carry and take
out the threat immediately. But I know you would call the teacher a murderer, even after
the perp killed students.
[/quote]

You didn't answer the question.

Would you want the military to bomb a school full of children if there was a shooter in there?

@BohemianBoo He never does answer the inconvenient questions. That is why I have given up asking them.

@CorvusBlackthorne [quote]CorvusBlackthorne · M
@DogMan Indeed. Why do Hamas not simply surrender so that Israel can stop murdering civilian children? It is so simple.[/quote]

Lol I love this comment, I can't describe how much ☠️

@BohemianBoo I remember reading about that in a comic book once yes .

@BohemianBoo Yes, Boo boo, they surrendered after the 2nd bomb.

@DogMan So then they weren't willing to fight to the last person, which was your claim.
Japan's military was pretty much depleted, they were going to surrender anyway. America still could have attacked their military, I think that would have been fair. But bombing two cities just to kill civilians, when the war was pretty much over, is indefensible. We can't say the Allies had the moral high ground against the Axis when both sides were committing all the same war crimes.

@AthrillatheHunt [quote]Nakba= victim mentality[/quote]

I know, right? What's a little mass murder mixed with a spot o' ethnic cleansing?

[quote]I thought we were talking about the other 2 monotheistic religions. My bad .
[/quote]
The point is that people of every religion do bad things and good things. The religions themself don't matter nearly as much as the material conditions.

@BohemianBoo Except it's not an ethnostate, since 20% of its citizens aren't Jewish and have full civil rights. Even the Jewish population is split between European Ashkenazi and Middle Eastern Mizrahi and Sephardic.

Israel does largely limit immigration to Jews. You're OK with that, but not "Jewish supremacy" whatever that is. Are you also opposed to "Arab supremacy?" A Palestinian state would definitely be an ethnostate.

So apparently, even returning Israel to its original 1948 borders isn't good enough for you. Since you essentially support Hamas' agenda, you shouldn't be surprised to encounter resistance.

China, Russia, the US, and many other countries also have bloody histories - should they also be dissolved?

@LeopoldBloom [quote]Except it's not an ethnostate, since 20% of its citizens aren't Jewish and have full civil rights.[/quote]

Nope, we've already been through this. You even conceded that Israel has apartheid, it's just not exactly like the system they had in South Africa.

[quote]Israel does largely limit immigration to Jews. You're OK with that, but not "Jewish supremacy" whatever that is. Are you also opposed to "Arab supremacy?" A Palestinian state would definitely be an ethnostate.[/quote]

I'm against any form of supremacy or any system where people don't have equality before the law.
Israel has Jewish Supremacy in that Jews have rights that minorities don't have. I would be against that if it was Palestinians doing it in a Palestinian ethnostate too.

[quote]So apparently, even returning Israel to its original 1948 borders isn't good enough for you.[/quote]

I'd be alright with that. It would be better than the current situation. But as long as America does whatever Israel wants, that's obviously not going to happen. Whether it's a two state solution or a multiethnic Israel where everyone has civil rights, neither will happen if we keep funding the psychopaths currently running Israel.

[quote]China, Russia, the US, and many other countries also have bloody histories - should they also be dissolved?[/quote]

I didn't say Israel should be dissolved, I said it probably shouldn't be an ethnostate anymore.

@BohemianBoo I never said Israel had apartheid, only that the situation in the West Bank resembles apartheid if you ignore the necessary racial aspect and the requirement that the oppressed group live in the same country as their oppressors. Although, Jews are not allowed in Area C which is completely under PA control; nothing like that existed in South Africa.

Allowing all 5 million Palestinian refugees to return would make Jews a minority, and since their current government is elected by popular vote, how would you prevent it from turning into a Palestinian ethnostate and protect the rights of Jews there?

Should all ethnostates in the world be converted to non-ethnostates? Minorities aren't treated well in the ethnostates of Japan and Korea, should those not be ethnostates anymore?

.

@LeopoldBloom
[quote]
as absurd as debating whether Mexico or Ghana or Nepal should be allowed to exist.
[/quote]

This comparison fails miserably. Mexico, Ghana and Nepal are not apartheid like states building illegal settlements in occupied territories. Of course, Israel has every right to exist within the pre-1967 boundaries.

@GrinNude OK, I'd agree with that since I oppose the settlements. However, that's not anti-Zionism if you think Israel should exist within those borders.

@SatanBurger Even were you to find the documentation to support your statement, I suspect @samueltyler2 would continue to deny it.

@CorvusBlackthorne Exactly which is why I didn't bother, not going to waste that energy. One thing I noticed is that they all say something like Israel has to defend themselves but the main victims are women and children, so how many have to die in order for it to be a suitable revenge in their eyes? That's my question, I mean that's an honest question too, I'm legit wondering.

@CorvusBlackthorne I mean to add to my last comment, is it like 20% that has to die, 40%, maybe 50% I mean what numbers are we thinking here technically?

@HordeCory They were escaping European antisemitism. Yikes.

@Human1000 the war was over. Hurt people hurt people, unfortunately. If you read the early writings, they were very open about how they were emulating colonial powers like the British.

@HordeCory [quote]there's no one to reclaim it from.[/quote]
For that to be the case, the land would need to be unoccupied.
[quote]They could have respectfully negotiated the Palestinians grant them asylum or something.[/quote]
I quite agree.

@HordeCory [quote]While there has been a continuous Jewish presence in the land of Israel over the millennia, the yearning to return to Zion, the biblical term for both the land of Israel and Jerusalem, has been a cornerstone of Jewish communal life since the Romans violently colonized the land, sending Jews into exile two thousand years ago. An earlier exile by the Babylonians produced perhaps the most well-known lamentation “By the rivers of Babylon, there we wept as we remembered Zion.” That connection between Jews and the land, and the hope for repatriation, is deeply embedded in Jewish prayer, ritual, literature and culture.

What is known as modern Zionism emerged in the mid-19th century in tandem with the rise of the nation-state and widespread national liberation movements across Europe. In the case of the [b][c=800000]Jews, it was also in response to a long history of intense anti-Jewish hatred, persecution, and discrimination in countries and societies across the world where Jews lived, including in Europe, the Middle East, and North Africa[/c][/b]. [/quote]

https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/zionism

@SatanBurger modern zionism is what I am referring to. It can be simultaneously true that Zionism is a response to persecution and a colonialist project. Hurt people hurt people, this perpetuating a cycle of violence. The Palestinians are being punished for something a completely different civilization did thousands of years ago.

@HordeCory I never said it couldn't be both true.

@Carissimi there's a leftist under your bed!

@HordeCory Maybe that’s who is beating me up when I’m asleep.

@Carissimi oh???

@DogMan Tell me some truth, and we shall see.

@CorvusBlackthorne Your words-"Wrong again. They were deceived into electing Hamas, who promised to ensure that the Palestinians would have a homeland". Did you know that
Palestine was formed in 1988? The PLO was doing the same things to Israel, as Hamas
is today. Insuring a homeland, means destroying Israel. Why is that so hard for you guys
to understand?

@DogMan [quote]Did you know that Palestine was formed in 1988?[/quote]
Why do you invariably insist on random page breaks when you lie?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict

@HordeCory Do you remember the PLO and Yassar Arafat? He had a two state solution
and got everything he wanted. But after the Aslo accord was signed, he went back to
killing Israelis, because that is all the Pals really wanted.

@DogMan understandable. If someone violently forced you out of your home, would you be willing to play nice?

@DogMan [quote]I will ask you some questions that I have asked others.[/quote]
I am certain you will listen to my answers and not become angry. /s
[quote]Who started this war?[/quote]
Israel. Many years ago. They were not content merely to occupy the land granted them by the British government in 1948. They coveted the land still known as Palestine.
[quote]Who are holding hostages?[/quote]
Both sides are holding hostages.
[quote]Who hides ammo stores in schools, hospitals, and other
civilian areas?[/quote]
Hamas does that, because they genuinely do not care about Palestinian civilians, as they pretend to do. But who destroys schools, hospitals, and other civilian areas whilst justifying the destruction? Israel.
[quote]Also, If Trump invaded Mexico, killed and mutilated innocent civilians, and took the rest
hostage, WHOM would you blame when the Mexicans attacked and tried to get their
hostages back?[/quote]
A rather poor comparison, as the Mexican military cannot compare to the United States military, but I shall ignore that for the moment.

If Mexico was merely attempting to retrieve their hostages, they could not be blamed for that. But if Mexico then invaded civilian areas of the United States, destroyed schools and hospitals, and murdered anyone attempting to give medical aid to Americans, I would blame Mexico.
[quote]Are you a thinking person?[/quote]
Are you?

@akindheart basing government on religion is never a good idea.

@NoGamesTolerated I'll take that as a compliment.

@DogMan yeah.. me too! 👍

I’m not really here to kiss their behinds anyway, like I see ‘so very many’ doing…🤮I generally say exactly what I mean, and when I’m joking I let that be known as well.

@HordeCory Colonialism has created wealth, safety, and prosperity around the world.

Without it people would be starving and suffering around the world, just like the current
countries that were never colonized by anyone. Look at the African hell holes that are
being run by indigenes people, in lieu of European colonists.

@HordeCory Colonized countries are doing far better than countries that were not
colonized.

@AthrillatheHunt The kibbutz is Socialist, yes, but is neither leftist, nor new, it has been part of their culture going back thousands of years. I should add that Amish settlements are technically kibbutzes based on the Israeli models of them, and they are far from Leftist.

@NativePortlander1970 regardless of the words they use to describe themselves, people living in kibbutzes are living socialist lives. I should know. I lived on one .
We call ourselves a democracy when we are in fact a republic .

@SatyrService and the right is trying to coop the indignation over antisemitism!

@samueltyler2 I think Iran and Russia are allies of convenience because of their pariah status, but Russia is pretty tied up in Ukraine.

@helenS i am not so sure.

@Human1000 precisely, and that is why they want less attention drawn to them. Just saying, the coincidence is amazing.

I take it you have no good answer, which is why you gave none?

@jshm2 ummm, no, the right believes the Jews have a right to their homeland.

The left wants genocide from the river to the sea.

@DogMan There is an element on the far right (like Nick Fuentes) who don't believe Israel should exist. But you're correct, the mainstream right wing position generally supports Israel.

@GlitterEater They must really hate all the Islamic dominated states then, especially Saudi Arabia. Israel, of course, has two million Muslims in its population, and about 185,000 Christians. Not an ethno-state.

@MandyMitchell 1. Ethno-state doesn't mean "dominated by one ethnicity", and 2. Leftists don't like Saudi Arabia.

@GlitterEater according to the dictionary definition, that is exactly what an ethno-state is and I have yet to see a Leftist demonstration against Saudi Arabia or, indeed Iran, which causes so much of the terrorist trouble in the world. We do have leftist demonstrations against Israel though -which is far more democratic than either.

@NativePortlander1970 Perhaps one of the Palestinian universities the Israeli government destroyed contained them.

@DogMan Israel started the current war when they forced Palestinians out of their homes.