So let’s talk about consent and victim blaming.

@ShadowSister it doesn’t matter. I’m just done. Be well. 🦋

@ShadowSister best of luck. 🦋

@DarkHeaven I love you my friend

@Really So if my mother told me she hated me and I was sad about that, it's my fault?

@CountScrofula It isn't a necessarily a 'fault' except perhaps in your mind - it's a condition in your mother's mind. Could be justified. Maybe you already hate her anyway and you're glad she feels the same, who knows?

So long as you're posing imagined situations, you should only expect imaginary responses.

@CountScrofula [quote]Intentions are irrelevant to me[/quote]What about your own. Are they irrelevant to you?

[quote] doesn't matter that dog is dead. [/quote]This isn't The Dead Dog Café 😄. Maybe a place for flogging dead horses though. 😁

@InOtterWords Victim blaming has always been a hot button issue for me.

@InOtterWords It's a big and surprising leap from talking about flirting to talking about rape, but:

Beneath the base of your rape pyramid there's a lower, subtler & less remarked-on type of influence on sexual behavior: I mean the way romance & sexuality are portrayed in books and films. In love->sex scenes I don't think I've ever seen either party ask directly for consent? We're fed depictions of a mutual unspoken agreement - a willing, silent responding on each side. No words are required - it's shown as just a natural thing that happens - and that idea is deeply embedded in our culture. We mostly lap it up.

Well, maybe in some ways it IS natural for things to 'just happen'. if either party wants to back off they can say so, or just do so. (I'm not talking about situations where one has some sort of power over the other. That is very different.)

The notion of denouncing spontaneous, rising passion in favor of preliminary verbal negotiations is a bit repugnant.

@Jackaloftheazuresand On some level, you're correct; most crimes at least partway result from the circumstances someone was brought up in. Ideas like fault and justice really exist as techniques to establish boundaries, deter behaviors that hurt people, make victims feel better, and make those who'd otherwise feel anxious feel secure. It's not some innate characteristic of the human soul.

@BlueVeins Maybe in civil courts but there is outright injustice because I've committed it

@DeluxedEdition I will not delete it because your opinion is just as valid as mine. But I think it’s a complex subject and people don’t always take what you may consider the logical path.

@TryingtoLava And I’d like to once again state that this is my opinion on the subject in general and not about anyone person or event.

@Straylight ik silly but obvi if there was talk bout it on SW it hada be cuz of something

@TryingtoLava I think it’s very possible to end up in this situation accidentally with no ill intent. It’s just important not invalidate the other persons feelings.

@pillowprincess i dont know how that works online. I am not a good flirt, so i rarely do it. But as an innocent, two way flirt goes too far, the person feeling uncomfortable needs to speak out.

@Carla
I don't see that much of a difference, whether it's online or offline. Why should bad behavior suddenly be more forgivable [i]just[/i] because it's online?

If someone feels violated, it won't matter much. Psychologically the abuse is real in both cases, boundaries have been violated.

In my book it's pretty simple, online as offline you won't take a flirt into any sexual act without consent. It's no longer innocent flirting if one part starts turning a flirt into something sexual, and whether it's sexting and online won't make any difference.

To be explicit, one just don't [i]thrust[/i] fingers or any other stuff into someone else without consent, and it being online is not a valid excuse. Also, it's not an excuse to claim the other didn't tell the abuser to stop.

Bottomline, if someone wants to give a sincere apology in such a situation they don't start making excuses by telling their victim that they're partly responsible for their misconducts. They own their own abusive behavior without any cheap excuses, or responsibilities placed on their victim.

As for the reference you make, had it been a man rather than a woman who had done what was done, the support of the abuser would have been a whole different story.

In general, the enablers of SW should start look themselves in the mirror. It's a symptom that's rather widespread here, abusive people whining loudly will have a lot of enablers supporting them. These abusive people would start acting more responsible if they hadn't their usual crowd cheering them how brave they are for excusing their bad behavior when they keep doing it over and over again.

Enough said.

@pillowprincess just to be clear, im not a good flirt anywhere.😕
And i do see your points, clearly.
I would be as uncertain about my feelings with this kind of thing with a man as well.
I didn't grow up with the internet. Ive only been a user in this kind of forum for a brief few years. So i dont quite understand the influence it has on people or their well-being.
And i know i minimize it.
I will apologize for that.

@Lostpoet I know what you mean about three minutes of material. 😂 I used to be good at flirting.

@Really And it’s a complex subject. There’s no one appropriate way to respond. But acknowledging their feelings and not trying to sway them aside is a good place to start.

@Straylight Sorry if I'm flogging a dead horse; but acknowledging someone's feeling is not the same as accepting the idea that one is responsible for it.

OK, shutting up about it now :).

@Really I think any point of view that at least takes the subject seriously deserves to be heard.

@wildbill83 Like I said, it can be complicated.

@JohnnySpot That which is done for love is beyond good and evil?

@Straylight there is no truth to those words whatsoever

@Straylight all's fair in Love and War makes some sense.

@TheOneyouwerewarnedabout I remember when I commented on something Kali was writing and someone said I was just her alt. 😂

@Miram A big one.

@Bang5luts Not really what I was getting at, but ok.

@Straylight I apologize. I wasn't intending to go off about it. It is a really sensitive subject for most people. I don't believe that anyone decent would want for anyone else to feel forced or coerced into anything they did not want.

@Moosepantspatty It can be a tightrope walk. I know I’ve always felt safe around you.

@Straylight that means a lot, and im really thankful to hear it.