So let’s talk about consent and victim blaming.

There has been some talk here today about flirting and where the line is when the other person seems to go along with it but later recants that claim. While another person may seem into it, there could still be a problem with power discrepancy. Is the flirting person in a position of power? Do they have influence or popularity? The fact is that the person they’re flirting with (online or irl) may not be as comfortable with the situation as it may seem. Often they will go along with it for fear of consequences, being ostracized, triggering the other person, etc.
Now when this happens how do you know if the person you are flirting with is really receptive or if they’re just avoiding drama? Well, it’s not always easy. But if approached later about it, you can listen to them and apologize. Because even if you didn’t know or intend to make them feel this way, that is the way they feel. It’s normal to feel shocked and feel you need to defend yourself, but insisting that the other person went along with it and could have just said to stop is victim blaming, plane and simple. Imagine how you would feel gathering the courage to say you were wronged only to be attacked for it.
I don’t know how to close this out, but I’ve said my piece. I’m sure some will disagree, but this is something I feel strongly about and I needed to get it out while it seems to be a hot topic here.

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Carla · 61-69, F

People often overstep but don't realize it.
If the overstep is brought to fore, and it is profusely apologized for, what else can be done?
Being online is a handicap. You miss the subtle facial gestures, the tone.
But to apoligize, explain the misinterpretation, then to still be beaten up for it is...rigid.

Straylight · 31-35, F

@Carla It is. But I’m not saying don’t flirt. I’m just saying if someone comes up and says they felt uncomfortable about it, just don’t try to invalidate them.

pillowprincess · F

@Carla
One thing is flirting, another if turning it into a sexual interaction. Online as offline consent matters.

Carla · 61-69, F

@Straylight i agree with that. Questioning to understand when broadsided isnt invalidating. I saw an interaction here where the alleged perpetrator was horrified that her words were not welcome.
I hate to see anyone uncomfortable. Or feeling used or misused. I also hate to see people honestly sorry for a mistep, express that, and still be raked for it. If ones words cannot be forgiven, then trust is broken and removal of oneself from the situation(block) would seem prudent.

Carla · 61-69, F

@pillowprincess i dont know how that works online. I am not a good flirt, so i rarely do it. But as an innocent, two way flirt goes too far, the person feeling uncomfortable needs to speak out.

pillowprincess · F

@Carla
I don't see that much of a difference, whether it's online or offline. Why should bad behavior suddenly be more forgivable [i]just[/i] because it's online?

If someone feels violated, it won't matter much. Psychologically the abuse is real in both cases, boundaries have been violated.

In my book it's pretty simple, online as offline you won't take a flirt into any sexual act without consent. It's no longer innocent flirting if one part starts turning a flirt into something sexual, and whether it's sexting and online won't make any difference.

To be explicit, one just don't [i]thrust[/i] fingers or any other stuff into someone else without consent, and it being online is not a valid excuse. Also, it's not an excuse to claim the other didn't tell the abuser to stop.

Bottomline, if someone wants to give a sincere apology in such a situation they don't start making excuses by telling their victim that they're partly responsible for their misconducts. They own their own abusive behavior without any cheap excuses, or responsibilities placed on their victim.

As for the reference you make, had it been a man rather than a woman who had done what was done, the support of the abuser would have been a whole different story.

In general, the enablers of SW should start look themselves in the mirror. It's a symptom that's rather widespread here, abusive people whining loudly will have a lot of enablers supporting them. These abusive people would start acting more responsible if they hadn't their usual crowd cheering them how brave they are for excusing their bad behavior when they keep doing it over and over again.

Enough said.

Carla · 61-69, F

@pillowprincess just to be clear, im not a good flirt anywhere.😕
And i do see your points, clearly.
I would be as uncertain about my feelings with this kind of thing with a man as well.
I didn't grow up with the internet. Ive only been a user in this kind of forum for a brief few years. So i dont quite understand the influence it has on people or their well-being.
And i know i minimize it.
I will apologize for that.