@BritishFailedAesthetic I agree. The selling off of council housing to private landlords in many countries is part of the reason that so many people are struggling.

@SW-User Couldn't agree more, and more need to be built, to be fair @Gloomy did a great post on this.

@BritishFailedAesthetic I shall read it

@val70 founder of the British labour party and wrote a biography of Karl marx

@Guitarman123 Yes, that the Independent Labour Party in 1893. Ramsey Macdonald had the advantage of him because Hardie was always happier in nationwide agitation rather than in the pedestrian detail of House of Commons politics

@val70 indeed so which was why hardie stepped down which although understandable was a shame as he's a great figure

@Gloomy we were talking about literal animals. Social Darwinism is the misconception that people are able to corectly determine what is an evolutionary advantage, which we cannot.

Evolution is based on reproduction, while they tend to add their own subjective standards and preted they are in line with evolution.

And then there is the godawful fact that historically genocide has been the go to method for conquest. We are the first generation that have rightfully rejected that.

An example of this is the slave trade. At least an equitable amount of slaves were captured from Africa and sent to the Arab peninsula as were sent over the atlantic. However only the Americas (all of them) still have their descendents there today. The reason is that the Arab slave trade of the time only dealt with castrated slaves. (Genocide)

And this was pretty much the norm until not long ago. Its a very bitter pill but one that is true nonetheless.

Finally, as I mentioned before cooperation is only applicable within tribes or other smaller organisational forms. Kropotkin has done nothing to prove why this would be applicable to large populations, and especially not ones that have different cultural characteristics.

@KioCo [quote] An example of this is the slave trade. At least an equitable amount of slaves were captured from Africa and sent to the Arab peninsula as were sent over the atlantic. However only the Americas (all of them) still have their descendents there today. The reason is that the Arab slave trade of the time only dealt with castrated slaves. (Genocide)
[/quote]

The Arabs and the Europeans raped enslaved women. This is why several of the slaves’ descendants have both European and North African DNA.

@KioCo [quote]However only the Americas (all of them) still have their descendents there today. The reason is that the Arab slave trade of the time only dealt with castrated slaves. (Genocide) [/quote] have you ever met a Yemeni before? There are many black communities in the middle east like in Iran and even Palestine that come from descendants of slaves. You are referring mainly the ottomans because alot of Arabs mixed with the slaves, by choice or without choice. The ottomans mostly did the castration.

@deadgerbil ok sunshine, if that helps you feel better about yourself. I advocate no only for workers owning the means of production but a Co operative society where we all work together to improve our conditions and way of living.

@Guitarman123 ok guess what 💀 I want improved conditions of living and less corporate greed, for the workers to actually benefit, environmental protections, etc too. And no, a country adopting a stateless no military 'ideal' is not realistic at all. IF Ukraine were to do this tomorrow, all of its new stateless people would be taken over.

I'm not going to sit here and have some mf'er put words in my mouth that I never said. No patience at all. Clear as day that I never said that Ukraine rn is socialist or that Putin is. You can't read(?), on your effing self to sort yourself out.

What a effin inbred headache you are 💀

@deadgerbil I'm not saying it will happen overnight,unlikely will even happen in my lifetime but it's still an idea I support as regular working class people are struggling to survive in this current system and have done so for decades but thanks to spectacular images and entertainment media we are too pacified to attempt to make any kind of changes for the better.

@Roundandroundwego put workers in control of the means of production and work towards Co operative societies

@Guitarman123 well, if people agreed that we have to take control away from the corporatocracy, they'd have a lot of problems in their way, lots of insurmountable issues to first deal with on the road to social democracy, and I doubt they're talking about the stateless future first.

@Roundandroundwego nothing is achieved overnight nor goes smoothly. Most people by their nature aren't caged animals and like to have control over their own destinies and in This current system that just isnt the case

@Gloomy [quote]Arendt was a vile and selfish individual [/quote]
Are you sure you don't confuse her with Ayn Rand?

@helenS Yes I did sorry

@Gloomy 🌷

@Alyosha it's important to know. Democracy is a phase, and keeping class systems from being a problem certainly takes work. We have to work today for equality this evening.

@Guitarman123 Then it wouldn’t be classless my friend.

@Adogslife the caste system should not be a burden on everything and everyone.

@Roundandroundwego Ok, so if you were one of the Dalits/Untouchables, you would be ok? You wouldn’t be a burden?

So you believe it’s possible to be blissfully poor?

I don’t.

@val70 I'm not saying he's wrong, I'm saying that's not the only way that humans and animals have survived for as long as we have

@val70 making Darwin disappear, won’t change the science.

@SW-User I meant it as mental exercise. Like ban out of our decisions

@Eternity what you're reffering to is mutual aid

@Guitarman123 that, and having a culture where greed is shameful, inheritance doesn't exist, and honing of the self through hard work and discipline is the paragon of virtue.

@Eternity or was held at bay better thanks to mutual aid being stronger

@Roundandroundwego I was just telling what I know.

@Sidewinder this audio gets right to the history of where communism actually was founded.
https://youtu.be/Ie2YI79d-Rg.

@Roundandroundwego great book

@SnowedIn that's same as saying people like to be exploited and follow a hierarchy

@MarineBob even if a company makes money in today's society, no guarantee that workers wages will improve

@MarineBob The workers will be the company

@Like2play when did Russia have a stateless and classless society?

@DDonde maybe so but it's better than just accepting things as they are

@Guitarman123 We absolutely shouldn't accept things as they are I agree with that

@DDonde I have no doubt that such a society where no state exists won't happen in my lifetime but if I can do my bit to improve my corner of the world then that's a start