Fair enough. I’m two hours from the Cities but have never taken to them. They’re nice but ... just can’t put my finger on it. @SW-User

@luckranger71 it’s total sprawl there too. They are at least trying with public transportation.

They also have a lot of headquarters there.

@SW-User hey, guys! Thank you for this discussion. It's just what I need!

I'm coming from a VERY large city with a world class transportation system. I've lived down south where there's literally no public trans... Not even buses.

I've never been up north or to the midwest, so I need people like y'all to be my eyes and ears.

I prefer smaller big cities, I think. As long as there's tons of diversity, delicious American food, plentiful volunteer and work opportunities I'm game!

I believe Minneapolis is more expensive than Madison. Is it colder? Also, do you know of another Midwestern city like Madison and Minneapolis?

@Kingfish28 You may find this fascinating as I did. I was not aware this happened. See the book by Judy part way down? This is such a great read.

https://www.nj.com/entertainment/arts/index.ssf/2015/05/how_three_planes_crashed_in_elizabeth_in_50s.html

@Kingfish28 My father's home town.

@luckranger71 thanks. I agree

@GJOFJ3 yep, it has lots to offer... grand theft auto, larceny, burglary, rape, homicide, shabby neighborhoods, and corrupt cops... 🤔

Thanks for your input Ms Huckabee Sanders 😂@wildbill83

@LostNtheworld idk. I've always had a car. I do know they have city busses tho.

Hmm, thank you! I'll research some more :) you're the best!

texas or florida is too far south (almost as many idiots down there as there are up north), try mid-Atlantic east coast. The southeast is generally going to be the least expensive; weather varies greatly on elevation (frickin' cold and windy here atm @3500+ft)

I checked this week,cost,SD vs NY with my needs,San Diego was a bit >< more but not by much

@bookerdana SD is more expensive than NY? Good grief! NY is totally out of my price range.

Well I'm in New York,upstate is cheaper but I'm not upstate

@LostNtheworld define safe? I don't think I'd want to live in Newark or Camden. Although Newark is being turned around a bit.

I think NJ is as safe as any place you'd want to live.

Cost, San Francisco and LA are way more expensive! Pacific NW has gotten expensive and you have to put up with funky weather.

@samueltyler2 Great question. I'm coming back to the US from a very safe country, so even the slightest bit of crime is distasteful. Realistically, I'm worried about violent crime.

The Pacific Northwest is so expensive! Everyone wants to live there (for good reason), but I'm not paying over half my salary in rent! Haha, thank you!

@LostNtheworld you can be safe or unsafe wherever you go. You have to be smart about how you live and travel.

@toddr13 I would not live on Main Street in Ellicott City, though. It seems to flood every few years. People die.

[media=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37dAS_WuXo0]

@JoyfulSilence That is true, there's a flooding problem in the downtown.

@LostNtheworld I have never been to Denver in winter. It had always been warm when I was there. It is out on the flat plain so gets that heat from down south, I guess. But research it, I am no expert.

DC is OK. I work for the federal government so I have to live around DC. It is really expensive though. I have lived in the area for 20 years, and I tired of it and large cities. Also, it is too hot and humid in summer and too cold in winter for my tastes. Maybe I will move to a desert. I think I can deal with dry heat if it means a mild winter.

@JoyfulSilence I used to live in D.C. I was there for a few months and loved it! I remember the apartment prices and I was shocked. I couldn't afford to live there even if I wanted to. God, I was there for the summer and winter. It was hot and humid and freezing! Ugh.

Hope all is well, since you're working for the feds. Seems money is a bit tight ATM. Good luck and thank you for the insight!

@LostNtheworld My agency is funded for the rest of the fiscal year. But they did not give us a raise this year. Yet I am fine. I have been there 20 years with lots of promotions over time, so my salary is fine.

@Lostpoet lolololol

@greenmountaingal I've definitely looked into Vancouver, but apartments are still very expensive T.T

I'll look into Desert Hot Springs! Thank you!

@LostNtheworld Desert Hot Springs is hot in summer, but perfect the rest of the time. The rents are lower than the other desert towns because, traditionally, DHS is a criminal hangout, especially for federal felons (who are often released from prison in that area). The major crime committed is drug manufacturing (kinda like in the cable TV series Breaking Bad). What that means is you are not that likely to be attacked, or robbed or burglarized, because your greatest danger would be winding up in some sort of crossfire between the drug lab gangsters and the feds (DEA, FBI, etc.). That would only happen if you went into the meth lab area at the west end of the town especially at night. The rest of the town is very safe unless you are afraid of arthritic old ladies.

In 2008, the DEA, the FBI, several other federal government agencies, and a LOT of local cops dramatically parachuted into DHS and, in a raid worthy of Elliot Ness, nabbed about 15,000 drug lab gangsters, or about half of all the bad guys in the area. This sent a message to the gangsters that, unlike in the recent past, the feds will no longer protect them from local police. It happened because a new young non-corrupt city council in DHS decided to fight the crooks for the first time in history and they are hoping to bring the property values in the area up to the level of DHS's more prosperous neighbor, Palm Springs.

Palm Springs is about 12 miles from DHS.

So...things are improving. As improvements continue, the rents will eventually go up especially with retiring baby boomers like myself.

Here are a couple more tips:

Cheaper, and much more luxurious, than the apartments, are the mobile home parks. You have to buy into them but the down payments are cheap. You would also need to pay a fee to join the HOA in the park. Some parks are over 55 parks, but many are "family parks" meaning all ages. These are extremely safe gated communities and very quiet and usually landscaped nicely.

Last tip: If you want to have a friendly neighbor in the area, get in touch with me; I will be moving there next year. I'm in love with the dry climate which erases my allergy and the healthy and delicious drinking water plus the healthy mineral water to bathe in, good for arthritis pain management. All the parks have big year round pools,and gyms. It's the pleasantest, safest, friendliest place I can afford on my retired teacher's pension.

@wildbill83 *lol* I hear ya, I've heard that too.

@ninjavu The north suburbs of Detroit are fine, Oakland County, etc. -- Troy, Bloomfield, etc. And, there are older close-in suburbs like Grosse Pointe that are fine, but public transport tends to be a bit more limited. Downtown, meh, Detroit has so many issues still to work through.

@toddr13 I did drive through some nice areas (don't remember the names though), but I wasn't there very long, unfortunately. Was a quick stop.

@Rokasu do you have a particular place in the Midwest? Both Madison and Indianapolis top my list and they're in the midwest. Both surprised me b/c WI and IN are not states I'd want to live in, however those big cities may be perfect!

@LostNtheworld Indianapolis isn't too bad. I haven't been to Madison.

I'm worried about crime in Indianapolis? Plus, does it seem like a nice, walkable city?