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Burnley123 · 41-45, M
The Trumpsters are replying with laughter emojis.
Good luck blaming it on Antifa when your grocery bills go up!
Pffff
Good luck blaming it on Antifa when your grocery bills go up!
Pffff
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Philth · 46-50, M
@Burnley123 let the child lick the knife
@Burnley123
Yes, that's me, I'm attaching the laughing emoji to most of your comments, because they're just so funny and deranged. 😂
The Trumpsters are replying with laughter emojis.
Yes, that's me, I'm attaching the laughing emoji to most of your comments, because they're just so funny and deranged. 😂
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Bel6EQUJ5 Obvious projection!
sarabee1995 · 26-30, F
These are interesting points.
From what I understand of them, the hope for the tariff policy is that it will encourage foreign manufacturers to make stuff here (like toyota and honda and many others currently do). Very questionable whether this will work, but their goal is not to jack prices but to bring home manufacturing.
As for immigration, we need a solution and that solution needs to include knowing 100% who is crossing the border and when and why. Deporting the current crop of people who as their first act on American soil chose to violate our laws is not morally wrong, is not wrong on a global standard (look at other countries' immigration policies). But, as you say, it will create a labor shortage in certain industries (agriculture, hospitality, construction, etc). This is a complicated issue.
Saying that we will have a labor shortage by deporting these people ignores the fact that we now hold them essentially in indenturded servitude. They work most often for below minimum wage and have no workplace protections from OSHA or Workmen's Comp, they have no health insurance, and for those who are having social security taxes deducted from their wages they will not ever see that money returned in retirement. We essentially have a second class population from whom we extract lower costs heads of lettuces, hotel rooms, and homes, but to whom we give quite nearly nothing compared to a documented worker.
If we were Canada, they'd already have been deported. If we were any one of most of the countries between South America and the US, they'd have been shot crossing the border. If we were Poland, they'd have been shot crossing the border. So, I'm not open at all to hearing that the US is being unfair or immoral in deciding how to deal with the issue. I don't know that mass deportation is the answer, but it is not some big immoral act.
From what I understand of them, the hope for the tariff policy is that it will encourage foreign manufacturers to make stuff here (like toyota and honda and many others currently do). Very questionable whether this will work, but their goal is not to jack prices but to bring home manufacturing.
As for immigration, we need a solution and that solution needs to include knowing 100% who is crossing the border and when and why. Deporting the current crop of people who as their first act on American soil chose to violate our laws is not morally wrong, is not wrong on a global standard (look at other countries' immigration policies). But, as you say, it will create a labor shortage in certain industries (agriculture, hospitality, construction, etc). This is a complicated issue.
Saying that we will have a labor shortage by deporting these people ignores the fact that we now hold them essentially in indenturded servitude. They work most often for below minimum wage and have no workplace protections from OSHA or Workmen's Comp, they have no health insurance, and for those who are having social security taxes deducted from their wages they will not ever see that money returned in retirement. We essentially have a second class population from whom we extract lower costs heads of lettuces, hotel rooms, and homes, but to whom we give quite nearly nothing compared to a documented worker.
If we were Canada, they'd already have been deported. If we were any one of most of the countries between South America and the US, they'd have been shot crossing the border. If we were Poland, they'd have been shot crossing the border. So, I'm not open at all to hearing that the US is being unfair or immoral in deciding how to deal with the issue. I don't know that mass deportation is the answer, but it is not some big immoral act.
Ynotisay · M
@sarabee1995 Oh. I said there wasn't the kind of understanding that comes from those who live around a lot of immigrants. You know, the working below minimum wage and no protections stuff. But if you want to say you're concerned about them then why not support legalizing them as quickly and efficiently as possible? Because yeah. It IS a moral issue. And if look in to what this administration has done in the past, and is proposing to do even more of, if you don't see the morality in it then that's a 'you thing.'
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Northwest
I wasn't talking about people on this thread.
I was talking about the (many) people - including on the rest of the post - who assume that undocumented migrants don't work and are just a burden.
Also, there was somebody who called me deluded and ignorant of economics. She then referenced an economist who is on public record for being against her own position on tariffs. I pointed this out and she kept arguing and insulting me: eventually saying that she thinks I have a small dick.
The level of debate on this thread is a lot better.
This point is not missed by many. Just not the focus of this thread.
I wasn't talking about people on this thread.
I was talking about the (many) people - including on the rest of the post - who assume that undocumented migrants don't work and are just a burden.
Also, there was somebody who called me deluded and ignorant of economics. She then referenced an economist who is on public record for being against her own position on tariffs. I pointed this out and she kept arguing and insulting me: eventually saying that she thinks I have a small dick.
The level of debate on this thread is a lot better.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@sarabee1995 0.3% native American in your Massachusetts town. Is that Liz Warren? 😇
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
It remains to be seen if they will be smart enough to have buyer's remorse when inflation goes even higher, they lose medical insurance, and can't breath clean air or drink clean water.
Healingtogether · 26-30
@samueltyler2 wait that happened four yesrs ago?
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@Healingtogether what?
This message was deleted by its author.
Harmonium1923 · 51-55, M
It’s amazing to me that people think he’s good for business, or that he’s a conservative. Neither is true.
SomeMichGuy · M
@Harmonium1923 Thank you!
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
It will crash the world economy. If no one stops him it will trash America as a nation..😷
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@sunsporter1649 Yes. I noticed, even most of the guns are imported these days..😷
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@sunsporter1649 You seem to be very fond of young Latino men with large weapons 🙂
Deporting all those people will send small grocery chains into bankruptcy then their supplers. The supply chain will have a bomb dropped on it
LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
@Pitchblue And Trump will blame the Democrats when it happens.
@LordShadowfire Yes.
emiliya · 22-25, F
Deporting millions of migrants is what has to happen if America voted for it. They did vote for it. Immigration was the most important issue to Republican voters.
You are right about tariffs. 20% tariffs on imports to US would drive costs up. Trump will not go through with it.
You are right about tariffs. 20% tariffs on imports to US would drive costs up. Trump will not go through with it.
22Michelle · 61-69, T
@sunsporter1649I have no idea who is in the picture, but I do know there's no "deep state".
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@emiliya So why does he keep banging on about it?
Americans are paying billions trying to keep migrants out and to remove those already in. Those who have gone undetected and are working illegally are net economic contributors through the labour they sell (cheaply) and the dollars they spend.
Americans are paying billions trying to keep migrants out and to remove those already in. Those who have gone undetected and are working illegally are net economic contributors through the labour they sell (cheaply) and the dollars they spend.
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
Elessar · 26-30, M
Liz Trump
And no lettuce that can last 4 years
And no lettuce that can last 4 years
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
Yes, and if any of his supporters had applied even a modicum of critical thinking they would have realised that these policies are unaffordable and practically impossible to implement.
Apparently the 20% tariff is meant to be the opening gambit to rather one-sided trade negotiations. I imagine explaining that subtlety pre-election would not have seized the headlines in the same way.
Mass deportations . . I guess he can curate a few dramatic TV spectacles to keep the pack happy.
Apparently the 20% tariff is meant to be the opening gambit to rather one-sided trade negotiations. I imagine explaining that subtlety pre-election would not have seized the headlines in the same way.
Mass deportations . . I guess he can curate a few dramatic TV spectacles to keep the pack happy.
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@sunsporter1649 Yes, and nearly all the countries which he imposed tariffs on reacted with retaliatory tariffs against America. Which were largely paid for by Americans in higher costs and job cuts - 245,000 lost jobs at a conservative edtimate. Trump also had to allocate $12bn of federal funds to compensate farmers for their loss of trade.
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
@SunshineGirl So why did kindly old dictator biden keep the tariffs in place, and even raised them and added more?
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@sunsporter1649 He settled trade disputes with the EU and Britain that had started over steel and aluminium tariffs. He has not used the threat of tariffs to further political, non-economic aims.
Deporting ten million people would create a labour shortage.
As I understand it, those ten million people all arrived illegally during the presidency of Joe Biden, and prior to this people weren't complaining about the existence of a labour shortage, so why would one happen after their deportation?
Unless... there are unscrupulous employers who wish to pay their (illegal) employees peanuts, and don't care that one of the results of doing so is forcing down the wages of the average US worker who is already struggling with the current cost of living crisis.
The toffey-snots of Hollywood are rich enough to be able to afford to pay their maids and servants a sustainable wage, and it's about time they did so.
20% tariffs would cause massive inflation and shortages of goods.
I haven't looked into the details of this yet, but I can safely assume that not everything will have this tariff imposed upon it. I'm guessing mainly luxury electronic devices like iPhones, cars and laptops will, and the reason for this will be due to the fact that they're made in communist China, by slave labour no less. Trump is displaying his superior morality and care for basic human rights once again, and we can all be proud to have in our generation such a wonderful Glorious Grand Master of Ethics! 🥰
We truly are entering a new Golden Age of peace, freedom and prosperity! Hallelujah! ✝☦✡
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@Bel6EQUJ5 They did not all arrive in the past four years. Some have lived in America for decades and have children born there. So there is the unedifying prospect of deporting American born children who have never been outside of America.
Trump could not give two hoots about human rights. He believes that any nation with whom America runs a trade deficit has in some way "cheated" and is fair game for economic warfare.
Trump could not give two hoots about human rights. He believes that any nation with whom America runs a trade deficit has in some way "cheated" and is fair game for economic warfare.
Healingtogether · 26-30
What world have you been living in? Remember when Trump put tariffs on many Chinese imports while keeping a lower cost of living than obama or biden
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@Healingtogether what happened to washing machines? Sorry, let us stop arguing, he won. I hope those that predict an economic disaster are wrong.
Deportation of ten million people would probably take as many years, so that’s not really an issue, 20 percent tariffs on certain goods? We don’t know the details but it would definitely make those goods more expensive but again, even tariffs would take time to fully implement.
The idea behind tariffs is to make manufacturing costs more competitive but it takes time to ramp up production, factories need to be built and companies need to make the decision to build them.
Once upon a time tariffs might have been an effective policy tool but with so much of our manufacturing base having been dismantled over past decades it’s not going to work anymore. Even making lower priced goods more expensive with the imposition of tariffs won’t inspire onshore manufacturing because higher labor costs and production costs would not cover the margins, it would still be cheaper to import goods.
Rebuilding factories takes decades, political leaders change every few years and the economics of manufacturing will change with them
The idea behind tariffs is to make manufacturing costs more competitive but it takes time to ramp up production, factories need to be built and companies need to make the decision to build them.
Once upon a time tariffs might have been an effective policy tool but with so much of our manufacturing base having been dismantled over past decades it’s not going to work anymore. Even making lower priced goods more expensive with the imposition of tariffs won’t inspire onshore manufacturing because higher labor costs and production costs would not cover the margins, it would still be cheaper to import goods.
Rebuilding factories takes decades, political leaders change every few years and the economics of manufacturing will change with them
Entwistle · 56-60, M
It's gonna be funny to watch the Trump voters look on in horror..if they become aware enough to understand what's going on that is.
MrSmooTh · 31-35, M
Tariffs would cause a shortage of goods if we continue to import them from other countries, but that's not what we want to do. Deporting 10 million undocumented immigrants would not effect the workforce at all since none of them can be legally employed in the first place.
Northwest · M
You follow our politics closely, but it looks like you haven't grasped what Tuesday means. Yet.
Northwest · M
@Burnley123 I did not see it, but what I'm saying is that he will try to cut a deal with China, where China will agree to what he's saying, but secretly will do something else. or that he will be his plan, because he thinks Xi can be bullied like the President of Mexico (not that the President of Mexico was).
Xi may agree to "back down", but in return of a strategic stranglehold on Trump and the USA.
If you recall, when he met with Putin in Helsinki, he emerged from that meeting, and announced that Putin is so nice, he will be sending Russian experts, to audit our systems and root out the malware.
If that did not raise a major red flag up the MAGAs spine, I don't suppose anything will.
And I wish I was making this shit up, but it's fucking real and we're so fucking dumb.
[media=https://youtu.be/LTN11oguKn4]
Xi may agree to "back down", but in return of a strategic stranglehold on Trump and the USA.
If you recall, when he met with Putin in Helsinki, he emerged from that meeting, and announced that Putin is so nice, he will be sending Russian experts, to audit our systems and root out the malware.
If that did not raise a major red flag up the MAGAs spine, I don't suppose anything will.
And I wish I was making this shit up, but it's fucking real and we're so fucking dumb.
[media=https://youtu.be/LTN11oguKn4]
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ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
And US democracy.
@ChipmunkErnie As someone else posted. The first administration with no checks or balances.
SomeMichGuy · M
@Pitchblue In part because of collusion of the different bits of government.
Brexit ring any bells???
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@HootyTheNightOwl Yes
@Burnley123 Just wait until he's back meddling in the Brexit talks again... like he's threatening to do.
Things were a lot calmer when Biden was in office.
Things were a lot calmer when Biden was in office.
Bumbles · 51-55, M
Such an opportunity for corruption, too. I do wonder if all tariffs are harmful. Biden kept many of Trump’s tariffs, and both the left and right opposed NAFTA. I think he’ll water down the tariffs, but you never know.
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@Bumbles As I said in another post, tariffs have a place. But the US has politicized them, when they should be used to maintain fair competition. Even Trumps announcement is political in nature. It doesnt require any US manufacturer to actually compete. If anything its taxation of the working class by stealth. It will put up the price of Chinese made car components in GM and Ford cars and everything in Walmart. So thats how your next round of Billionaire tax cuts get through..😷
Convivial · 26-30, F
Yup... Big time
22Michelle · 61-69, T
He might just decide to spend his time golfing again. The wall never got built.
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
Enjoy your new neighbors.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
justanothername · 51-55, M
@Burnley123 Nah, that’s sports mom.
jehova · 31-35, M
Start growing your own food now
jehova · 31-35, M
Its a slippery slope for sure.
Aysel · F
I can assure you it won't.
Aysel · F
@Burnley123 Again, you're simply mad that someone isn't afraid to correct you. You're a delusional man and know-it-all, so one last time, I can assure you the economy will be fine. Take a moment to process that.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Aysel The economist YOU reference is on record as saying tariffs would produce major inflation in the US economy.
Then you call me delusional!
😆
Please don't back down. This is brilliant.
Then you call me delusional!
😆
Please don't back down. This is brilliant.
Aysel · F
@Burnley123 Trying to convince “delusional” is tedious.
MartinII · 70-79, M
That's probably true in the long run, but not necessarily in the space of four years. But as you say, the actual policies may not be quite as advertised. A bit like our Labour government!
LunarOrbit · 56-60, M
Wasn’t he already president? And didn’t the American people vote him in again?
<scratches head>
<scratches head>
Aysel · F
@LunarOrbit Yes, which is why @Burnley123 is furious. Nothing is more pleasurable than seeing him furious.
Patriot96 · 56-60, C
You must have studied under Paul Klugman
Patriot96 · 56-60, C
Ah yes, anothrt EXPERT
Hiyall1t1me · 41-45, M
Stoop head.
LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
And once it happens, it'll be too late for me to tell them I told them so.
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