No state solution: Would dissolution of Israel bring peace?

@sree251 it isn't my thinking pattern, it is the knowledge agreed upon by all people of intelligence.

@samueltyler2 You said: "it isn't my thinking pattern, it is the knowledge agreed upon by all people of intelligence."

You define a thinking pattern as one that is based on knowledge agreed upon by all people of intelligence. This is what a computer program is, and it enables the processing of information based on a logic pattern (artificial intelligence).

Two different logic patterns are colliding in the Israeli-Hamas conflict. The same is going on in the US-Russian conflict in Ukraine. Only one side has "people of intelligence". This is why war is justifiably prosecuted until the other side (with no intelligence) is destroyed.

@sree251 Sorry to hear that. I have family there.😷

@sree251 Oh, I think they are. It may not look it but the bad 'uns don't generally last long in the game.

Also, however excitable the discussions, on the whole the politicians, campaigners and most of their supports do just about avoid drifting off policies and political abilities to descend into mere personal insults.

A lot of that may thanks to very strict rules of conduct within the Houses of Parliament, and to the fact that if one or another commits some wrong it is not long before they are found out and dealt with.

@ArishMell You said: "Oh, I think they are. It may not look it but the bad 'uns don't generally last long in the game. "

I give you that. We Americans are absolutely classless.

@sree251 I'm sure that won't end in bloodshed. 🙄

@BohoBabe @sree251 People are social animals and naturally form groups. Nation-states are the inevitable outgrowth of this. Saying "we shouldn't have countries" is as ludicrous as saying that we'd be better off if human females went through heat the way other mammals do. Imagine not being distracted by thoughts of sex except a few times a year when women were in heat. Somebody should look into that.

@LordShadowfire You said: "I'm sure that won't end in bloodshed. 🙄"

No bloodshed. Guaranteed. Machines have no emotions, like me. Dissolution of Israel and all nations in the world is the answer to a homeland for all in the world.

@jehova
According to the Bible, that idea didn't even work in heaven. Even God couldn't control the angels so war broke out in heaven. Good luck getting people to cooperate.

@Diotrephes never read it bunch of overly translated non sense. U r right though it is highly unlikely worldwide peace and cooperation will ever prevail. For lomg. . .

@Diotrephes You said: "According to the Bible, that idea didn't even work in heaven. Even God couldn't control the angels so war broke out in heaven. Good luck getting people to cooperate."

According to WW2 history, Jews were pretty compliant in Germany. Perhaps we are more effective than God when it comes to getting people to cooperate.

@22Michelle The people who worry me most are the secular Jewish people. The ones that accept the traditions and customs but do not believe in God.

There seems to be no compassion towards the people of the Gaza Strip.

Hamas too is a disgrace to humanity, and should be condemned by the Islamic world. Strangely it is not.

@SW-User i would disagree. Most secular Jews seem to accept the two state solution. The ultra Zionist / religious settlers won't accept anything other than " from the Jordan river to the sea" and the expulsion of all Palestinians. That includes the many Christian Palestinians, a group that is often sidelined if not ignored.
As for condemnation of Hamas by Islamic people, well I've heard plenty. Where you may be right is condemnation by leaders of Islamic states. However, those states are usually not democratic and are unwilling to make statements that may make them more unpopular.
Here in the west whilst there has been condemnation of Hamas the response to Israeli action in Gaza has been more muted. And this has been the case for over 70 years.
Personally I don't see any chance of peace in the next 20 years, abd that's assuming leaders on both sides try to bring peace about. What's happening in Gaza is the best recruitment call that Hamas could wish for. Until / unless the USA stops bankrolling Israel, and supplying it with weapons there will be no pressure on Israel to negotiate.

@22Michelle I stand corrected. It is such a complex subject.

Like you, I see no early solution. Just woe.

@sree251 Of course it is the self in action!

And the not-self (anatta) teaching is not to argue of the "non-existence" of anything as such.

But yes, I'm sorry, my words did give the impression of denying it's existence.

It is more Dogen:-

To study the Buddha Way is to study the self. To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be verified by all things.

And

Conveying oneself toward all things to carry out practice-enlightenment is delusion. All things coming and carrying out practice-enlightenment through the self is realization.


Thus....

flowers fall even though we love them; weeds grow even though we dislike them.

Just to add an edit. Just to look from another angle. There is no self. Yet here we are!

As D.T.Suzuki says, "we are empty from the beginning". We do not acquire it or attain it.

Yet here we are! We do not become empty by "practice", there is no attainment, no "works". Grace.

@SW-User You said: "Of course it is the self in action!

And the not-self (anatta) teaching is not to argue of the "non-existence" of anything as such."

This is really a great post capturing an understanding of the nature of ignorance. Words are the composition of the self, a movement of thought that motivates the body in action.

Dissolution of Israel is dissolution of the object of desire for a homeland. What homeland? This entirety of human existence is an illusion the liberation from which ends suffering. And what suffering has already been endured since the materialization of the Jew!

@sree251 Well, "ignorance" (avidya) is in Buddhism the cause of suffering. Which can be seen as a very positive teaching, in as much as the implication is that if we can see and know correctly then we shall know the end of suffering, here in this life.

As I see it, much religion (and I include Buddhism) can be simply a betrayal of this life for some imagined "other".

Obviously Buddhism is not one monolithic teaching that has remained unchanged throughout its 2500 years. In my own experience and understanding, Theravada is more world denying than Mahayana. Mahayana, with its teaching that "samsara" (this world of birth and death) IS "nirvana", is potentially an affirmation of this world. Nothing is betrayed.

Then you mention "desire" (tanha) , which follows from ignorance. Simply put we desire the wrong things.

Anyway, it can come back to Love, which the Buddha called "the liberation of the heart," "the most sublime beauty". And switching Faiths, there is Meister Eckhart who said simply:-

Love has no why

.....which illuminates all that has been said.

@LeopoldBloom huh. Consensus seems to be a mistaken identity.

@trollslayer That was the final conclusion. I'm basing my opinion partly on this article by a very pro-Israel writer.

https://www.quora.com/Is-the-story-of-the-USS-Liberty-Hamas-propaganda/answer/Gail-Ellis-2

@LeopoldBloom interesting reading.

@sree251 Just play John Lennon's "Imagine" over and over.
[media=https://youtu.be/ugrAo8wEPiI]

@LeopoldBloom You said: "Just play John Lennon's "Imagine" over and over."

I am not a dreamer. I am an observer. Israel is a willful product of the evil mind. No other nation was created this way. Israel is like a fetus conceived and incubated in a laboratory. Its birth and implantation in the Middle East was like the emergence of a body part alien to the human body.

Other nations are not natural also. This is why they are also causes of human conflict. However, no other nation was devised as a protection of a few against mankind.

@LeopoldBloom You said: "Free speech doesn't mean you can openly make plans to murder people without consequences."

This is exactly what is happening when nations exercise their freedom to kill without facing consequences. We have just announced the killing of some people in small boats in the Red Sea. No independent witness to the murders.

@sree251 Civil rights are normally thought to apply to individuals, not nations. You yourself said countries don't have rights, only people do.

Regarding US actions in the Red Sea, it depends whether you think those "small boats" were menacing shipping or not. FAAFO.

@LeopoldBloom You said: "Regarding US actions in the Red Sea, it depends whether you think those "small boats" were menacing shipping or not."

Since when do we have the right to kill a menace? Those 21,000 killed in Gaza were not even menacing. They were punching bags.

@Richard65 You are fixated on deviant sexuality. Islam is not America's guardian angel.

@sree251 I never said it was. That's a straw man argument, and you know it. I'd rather be free with the opportunity to be immoral if I so desire, than be a prisoner to someone else's idea of morality. And so would you, if you were honest.

@Richard65 You said: "And so would you, if you were honest."

To be honest, I have no sexual drive, moral or immoral. What's with you guys anyway? It seems to me that western culture is warped. Is this what life is all about, this constant need to stick it to someone?

@LamontCranston You said: "Let's dissolve Russia first-"

Russia is a component state within the USSR that was dissolved. It is only fair that the USA be dissolved now.

@helenS There are still more right-wing anti-Jewish hate crimes than left-wing. I would agree however that low-key antisemitism is higher on the left than on the right, even if people don't want to admit it. Someone who says "anti-Zionism isn't antisemitism" isn't going to see the contradiction in claiming to not hate Jews, while hating the one country where Jews are in charge. It's like someone saying "I don't hate Black people, I just think all of the African countries should be European colonies again."

@LeopoldBloom There have always been antisemitic tendencies inside the left. Mikhail Bakunin was a horrible antisemite, an eliminationist.

@Unefilletrescurieuse God used Cyrus as his instrument when the Israelites were in exile. He could easily use Xi as a peacemaker..

More crudely China needs to trade. And this is not helping.

@SW-User God can do anything he wants to do as he is God all by himself!

Your comment has nothing to do with my comment as far as I’m concerned.

I posted a quote by a user. And I stand by my response!

@Tarnished truth

@Tarnished You said: "No, Jerusalem and lands around it are of heavy religious significance to both sides of the conflict, so even if Israel was dissolved these two groups still don’t like each other and both still want to have control of the land. So there will still be conflict over it."

Of course! Jerusalem and the Holy Land is rich in culture and history. It is precious real estate a hundred times more valuable than New York City. And that is why the Jews grab it from the Palestinians. Hitler offered them Madagascar. There was talk about Uganda or Kenya as a safe haven for Jews. They must be nuts to think Jews would go for that. Jews are in the diamond district. All that talk about a homeland fools nobody. They want a homeland? How about the moon?

@jehova star trek

@trollslayer You said: "That Will happen in 2161."

They are only about 7 million Jews in Israel. Another 6 million in the US. All told, 13million. We are a planet of 8 billion people. We cannot rely on the west to resolve this Jewish problem. I would give the job to China. I am sure Xi can deal with Netanyahu.

@trollslayer the most realistic so ok.

@Bumbles my feeling is if iran had a regime change, israel would stand a much greater chance at relative peace with other regional governments. Iran funds most of Israels biggest enemies. Iran was a progressive country before the current regime.

@trollslayer Would definitely help!

@SW-User sorry thought you were in India .

@AthrillatheHunt There are four million Muslims and three hundred thousand Jews. To keep it in perspective. Hence the British Government is not neutral and supports Isreal.

Hopefully we will be allowed a General Election next year.

@SW-User thank God for Lord Balfour .

@Rumboltz I think Zionism has no currency outside the western world. Granted, the west is till pretty dominant economically and militarily. I don't think the Israeli lobby can move Americans towards a major conflict over Israel.

@MasterLee You cannot "remove" Hamas without destroying Gaza.

@helenS I can think of a few ways

@sree251 Dude! Seriously? There is tons of evidence for the Holocaust.

@LordShadowfire What is so special about about getting smacked by your fellowmen. We do it all the time. Your backside is chosen by God and smacking it is forbidden?