Vegans are acceptable targets to mock these days but i've a challenge for all the meat eaters here: Watch and tell me it doesn't affect you.
[b][i][c=800000]"Most of us consider ourselves animal lovers"[/c][/i][/b] It's called Dominion and if you can't invest the 2 hours then just watch the first section on pigs. It's one thing to hear about the bad, mean things that humans do to poor livestock but it's quite another to witness the terror and the pain of the animals as they're suffering slow, horrific deaths. Tell me what you feel watching it. Does it compel you to make different choices? Does it at least make you [i]want[/i] to make different choices?
Interesting I know that the vegan diet is always adopted by people who don’t know anything about the way we have evolved into a meat-eating diet. We are meant to eat meat and doctors are very concerned about particularly young girls who swallow this sort of nonsense about veganism being healthy when it is of course not. The vegan diet is of course deficient. What’s more it adds to the carbon footprint with all the vegetarian food which has to be flown in
Hmmm. A rather non-specific response to a very specific issue. Funny that.... I can't make this issue any simpler for you. You seem determined to pick a fight, i'm not sure about what. Not playing your lil'boy games though.
You are the little boy in your thinking I need every way. When are you going to grow up and actually get a house of your own and live some life? Come out beneath your rock?@Pikachu
Don't have to be a vegan to reduce. So since you [i]can[/i] eliminate or limit your use of animals products do you feel it is an ethical choice not to? If so, how so?
No, this doesn't compel me. One of these comes out very 5 years, and it's white noise at this point.
Instead of making videos, holding protests, they really just need to make vegan protein alternatives cheaper than meat, then focus on making them better. No amount of guilt or anxiety is going to change this, money is what talks.
Personally, Idc where I get my 400g of complete protein every day, I just care that it's cheap and sustainable for me.
Honestly, I don't think you care. I think you're just trying to assert a sense of superiority in your social life, because you can't get a leg up in your personal life. I would say this is virtue-signalling, if not for your history of troll posts.
I'm sorry your life is so unhappy that you're numb to the suffering of other beings. And i do mean that. I still think taking a life is a big deal and is even more tragic when that life is taken in terror and pain.
But if we've moved on to assigning motivations in order to criticize them and thereby justify dismissing the other person then i'm simply not interested in talking to you any more. If you'd like to walk that back then we can carry on.
{@pikachu] as a meat eater i can sympathise with your feelings on the killing of animals for human consumption . i feel that if you feel strongly about this and wish too renege from eating meat for your own personal reasons i feel nobody should be critical as that is your freedom of choice
lol calm down red. You made a flippant remark instead of giving a thoughtful response and i called you out on it. No big deal. We can move forward with the thoughtful part if you feel ready.
First let me ask you, were you up to the challenge i set forth in the OP? If you can't watch the whole 2 hours then just watch the first section about pigs. Tell me if that answers any of your questions about cruelty and we can go from there.
@Pikachu I’m very calm and you haven’t the ability to change that and no I wouldn’t waste time on silly propaganda.
Looked at rationally (try it, you might like it) pigs, chickens, cattle, sheep and turkeys, because they are food for us, exist in far, far greater numbers than those species ever would naturally. You might still find something to complain about but animal husbandry has vastly increased the population of these animals.
Glad to hear it, red. Sounded like you were getting a little worked up there what with the insults and accusations lol
Ok so you don't want to expose yourself to the reality of how animals are processed. That's very common. Not very intellectually honest in my opinion, but very common. People don't want to see how the sausage is made or else they might feel bad about eating it.
[quote]Looked at rationally (try it, you might like it) pigs, chickens, cattle, sheep and turkeys, because they are food for us, exist in far, far greater numbers than those species ever would naturally. [/quote]
So...your rational argument against veganism is that we've created slave races that can live in suffering in greater numbers? lol when you watch the Matrix do you think to yourself "Good for those machines for enslaving and harvesting the human race. We could never exist in such great numbers otherwise"?
To me the crucial ethos of veganism is that you should reduce suffering as much as possible. The fact that we've crammed thousands of birds into one barn where they have had their beaks cut off and their bones break because their growth has been artificially accelerated is not a rationally positive argument simply on the basis that we've increased above natural their population size.
[quote]point out the cruelty in an undeniable statement of fact.[/quote]
It is cruel to cause suffering unnecessarily. Animals are capable of suffering. Therefore it is cruel to cause them to suffer unnecessarily.
I could flesh that out but i'm not sure i want to put in the work for a guy who's not willing to put in a few minutes to watch a bit of film and expose himself to something he doesn't agree with. Let's see if you earn it from me...
SW-User
Nah ppl mock vegans as they’re lame asf, and I say this as someone who grew up vegan/vegetarian
Ugh, maturity. What's up with that? lol If more people could remember that a disagreement doesn't have to be a fight then this would be a better world.
@Pikachu Anyway, the joke I was making was more about [i]those[/i] kinds of vegans. You know the ones. They make it their whole personality. And you just know that if they were somehow to take the opposite stance, they would still make it their entire personality.
Yeah this was what made me vegan for a long time. Eggs and dairy are part of suffering in the meat machine after all.
The only animal I feel relatively OK with taking product from is bees because it is in beekeepers best interest to treat their bees well. If the bees don't like the hive or the area, they'll just leave.
@Doomflower Mussels and oysters definitely have my stamp of approval. I'm yet unconvinced that eating honey is any worse than eating an equivalent amount of cane sugar (pest control kills insects anyway), I honestly just abstain from it bc it pisses off other vegans and it's not worth it for me.
For those who choose meat, I only hope the respect it’s source. But it’s impossible to refute the more we learn about other species, the more we understand the similarities.
Me too. And it's not something that has to be all or nothing. Any reduction one makes in the consumption of animals and animal products is an improvement.
@Pikachu Agreed. I went through periods where I limited my consumption to meat to a couple times a week. I felt great. I also really enjoyed the meat more when I did eat it.
@Pikachu I would also say that if it's possible, try to buy your meat locally, so that you can see the conditions under which the animals live. I've got an uncle who keeps a small herd of cattle as a source of income. Or I guess he used to, I think I just heard that he had retired. Anyway, he treated his steers like royalty, because happy animals taste better. So it's possible, but you've got to be really picky.
Yeah there are definitely better and worse sources to get your animal products from. I don't think that necessarily makes it ok but it's certainly better to choose sources with the least amount of suffering.
