Propaganda and brainwashing is a powerful tool, for those that think Russia is the bad guy and Ukraine is is the good guy really do need to study some history, a starting point would be 2014 to present day, where Ukraine were killing Russian civilians in Donbass, for years, hitting civilian targets randomly, take a look, do not believe mainstream media, they work for the government
Ukraine is defending itself. It'll continue to defend itself until necessary. We (west) can continue to prop them up for much longer than the kremlin can afford continuing this war without its leadership accidentally tripping and falling down a window and/or sweetening their own tea with uranium-235
Honest question and, one in which I would not dare comment on. They must make it punitive enough.....long enough so that the Russian people either revolt or are on the brink of revolting as their sons are returned home in caskets. It's that simple. Ukraine MUST hold fast. On NATO's end, the question that remains is how long will they continue to supply Ukraine with ammo, technology and logistics? Not every NATO country can supply or continue to supply as part of the coalition, it's hardware which, they see as critical infrastructre for it's own secure borders.....and if you look at Poland right now, while they've never forgotten the tragedy of German aggression during WWII, they, like Ukraine sit on that border and, how much longer will Poland accept fleeing Ukranians as well as give up it's defensive hardware? Not all of our coalition countries have the money and industry to backfill the stockpiles they are giving to Ukraine, because they know that, they are absorbing the cost and will not be getting anything reciprocally, so....some of these countries have honest concerns. IF anythng, the larger countries need to be pouring more trainers in to Ukraine to show them how to get past the thousands of mines laid by Russia as part of their defensive ring so that in turn, Ukrainian tank gunners can exploit those breech's and pour in men and artillery. It is an axiom of war when, you go from the defensive to the offensive that, for every defensive soldier in a foxhole you need about 5 offensive soldiers to assault the position depending on doctrine so.....there are a host of questions to this equation, and it's up to professional war-planners and logistical intel to shake it all out and lay out the battle plans for each front. Regardless, it's a monumental task.
@hippyjoe1955 I'll let you display your facts without dispute because I just don't feel like tracking that all down. There was a day when I would but-----whatever man. I would end with this. Although I have been out of the military now for some time, as a former Marine, and Navy vet, I'll be damned that if, America was attacked, as I suspect it will be by the Russian/China coalition, that I won't glady go back and offer myself up for her. My family is a military family and we have bled and died for her. I'm still good with my weapon. I suspect a shit load of Ukranians feel the same way. I'll leave it there. Semper Fidelis
@Freeranger As a vet myself Canadian Armed Forces 1974 - 1982 I am convinced that nothing is as it seems. Going through high school at the peak and end of the Vietnam war I was left wondering what the US actually stood for. I was on exchange in 1978 and was amazed at how the US officers would never question their president. In Canada dunking on the PM was prime time sport among the officer corps. The fact is that the US has been the aggressor in too many wars to count and I lost all respect I had for Canadian PM S Harper joined Hillary's war in Libya. What was the purpose of that? At least Chretien whom as PM I loathed kept Canada out of Iraq. Why was the US in Iraq?
@Freeranger Americans have not revolted despite being sent on military operations to be massacred and mutilated in body and soul since the Korean War. Arlington Cemetery is littered with the glorious dead whose names are plastered in their thousands on war memorials throughout the USA. Going to war is an honored tradition we inherited from the damn British who is involved and working in tandem with us mucking up foreign countries throughout the world. MI5 is a forerunner of the CIA. Like father like son.
When I look at the dead bodies strewn all over the battlefield after the hatred in spent in past wars, I often wonder how politicians could succeed in sending and goading young men to die in conflicts. War takes the effort of millions. After the carnage is over, the madness is always attributed to the work of one madman.
With a population of 145 million and a GDP about the size of S Korea's, Russia is no "behemoth."
The only thing the one-dimensional superpower has is the largest nuclear stockpile in the world. Unusable, unless it wants to destroy the world rather than leave Ukraine alone.
@Richard65 Who died respectively in 1959 and 1950 and were active mostly *during* and *before* WW2, hence quite irrelevant with today's situation. Especially because if Russia had an issue with anything happened back then, they shouldn'ìt have signed the famous 1994 memorandum recognizing not only the independence but also the borders of modern Ukraine (again, as they were in 1994, so comprising of Crimea, Donbass and Luhans'k):
(click to zoom)
Notice that this was signed by the very same S. Lavrov who's currently not only still alive (unlike Bandera and Shukhevych), but is also having a key role in Russia's executive (foreign ministry).
Yes, it's not black and white perhaps, but more often than not if not all the time - the "shades of grey" argument is used, it is to try to justify inaction. In this very specific issue it's Russia that is at fault, they could've raised their concerns at the UN if that was the real casus belli (it's not). By invading they've lost any credibility.
@Elessar read Part 3 of the memorandum, about the agreement for the USA and UK to refrain from economic coercion of Ukraine for their own advantage. There's ample evidence the USA has economically coerced Ukraine for it's own advantage since 1989 and still are, something they agreed NOT to do by signing the memorandum. That's one of the reasons Putin felt compelled to act. I don't like Putin, he's a gangster, but the bigger issue is what caused this current situation and Putin isn't wholly to blame.
And if you think Stepan Bandera and Roman Shukhevych and the rise of neo-Nazism in modern Ukraine are irrelevant to these issues because they died in the Fifties, then you really are quite naive.
Depends on the peace deal really. When Russia invaded last year it was expected that they would easily overrun Ukraine and take control - however it turned out that they weren't as powerful as they thought they were and have still made limited advances. The support from the rest of the world for Ukraine has certainly help this - but don't forget Russia has had support from some allies like Iran too.
@LamontCranston of course, and they plan to achieve that through economic hegemony, which is easily the most effective way to their ultimate goal. Everything boils down to economic dominance (as the USA well knows).
A few years back a US trade delegation visited China at the behest of the US government. During the evening, the welcoming speeches were completed and then a senior Chinese Party member took to the podium and blatantly announced that it was China's ultimate goal to become the globe's dominant economy and to effectively render the USA as a mere supplier of natural resources and cheap labour. The American delegates were shocked by the blunt speech and one reported that they left the venue with no illusions as to China's ultimate endgame. I'm well aware of what China's plans are, which is why I won't buy anything that has come from China (for all the impact that will have).
One day, we'll likely all be serfs working for Beijing with zero employment rights. My point is that China would rather achieve that by wielding economic power and rapid modernisation than through military power. Though China is developing strategic military capabilities in case anyone seriously gets in their way.
If you're fighting for your very survival you're not going to be interested in 'peace deals'. If you let Russia win this where would they go next ?
Putin is head of a 'once great nation'. And since the break up of the former Soviet Union it has struggled to find an identity amid change since the end of the cold war. This 'war' gives him the opportunity to flex what muscle he has left which suits the U.S. because it allows another 'once great nation' to stir up an apothetic populace still mourning it's loss of 'strength' in the world economic structure. In short it's a proxy war that suits both Russia and the U.S. It allows both to invest ridiculous sums on military spending which in turn keeps people in the military supply chain employed at a time when fewer jobs than ever are being created.
Hearing how Russian troops have deserted their posts due to everything from poor supplies to poor command is giving the western world an idea of just how strong/weak Russia is today. Information we didn't have until now
Americans have no stomach for a protracted encampment in Crimea. Its not a war you could hope to win if you want to avoid losing votes at home. But the current situation makes the 'boomers' happy they finally have their long promised war with the 'Commie Ruskies'. And sadly most politicians whether Russian or American are still of that generation.
Hard to see a quick way out of this since half the world is considered 'untrustworthy'. So that rules out any potential third party cavalry cry for peace. The U.N. does what it always does and screams at the protagonists from afar but God forbid they actually take responsibility for anything. NATO is once again chewing it's nails praying for anything other than a full scale invasion of Ukraine because Zelenskl went to them asking for help and they turned their backs on him.
Honestly no. And it's really sad, the whole "we will let Ukraine join NATO" thing smells like bullshit to me, at best they'll get some token recognition that excludes NATO forces being obligated in a defense, and it's for this cause that Ukraine as a country is being destroyed. Zelensky looks like he was made a whole bunch of promises of unlimited support at the start of the war, as long as he rallied Ukrainian citizens to trade lives with Russian conscripts, and is trying to make those deals come true even as he's receiving a fraction of what he needs. Russia has taken 20% of Ukraine, including their power and grain supply, let's not kid ourselves - Russia will win even if Putin is ousted (in fact that's the only reason the war continues, the US is testing if Putin can be overthrown, and if the price is Ukraine, so be it)
Consider this: You're at a bar and see a drunk powerlifter pick a fight with a guy who doesn't look like he could do one chinup. What's the responsible thing to do here? You help break them up, get back to peace as fast as possible, let cooler heads prevail and let them sort out their beef later without harm. Would you hand the guy a baseball bat and tell him he'll be a hero to his family if he strikes back? If the powerlifter pulls out a gun, would you hand the guy a rifle and tell him the most important thing is to fight for his sovereignty? That's what we're doing in Ukraine right now
Russia is about to disband into little pieces and no one is going to help them. China will take over a large part of eastern russia. Moscow will oversee a small fifedom and be ignored.
Yes.They have to simply kill as many of the bastards as possible,what needs to happen is the families of Russians need to begin questioning"If the war is going so well,how come still 18 months on,men are still dying?"
@Thinkerbell Keep waiting. Run along dearie the adults are having a conversation about world events. You want to talk about out of date numbers. No one cares.
If Putin is seriously threatening to go nuclear, then things aren't going well for him. Plus his authority domestically and globally looks shaky following the potential Wagner mutiny. The much-vaunted Red Army looks like they'd struggle to defeat Moldova and Ukraine is now hitting Russia on home soil, causing Putin to laughably label them "terrorists".
I agree that the West is responsible for aggravating Putin into his invasion, but I have zero sympathy for the guy. He's just another authoritarian prick who rules by fear and intimidation and locks up any opposition on ludicrous charges.
@sree251 I would go even further than that and say with the BRICS+ Ecconomic block, they are taking a lot of the workld with them. I have had people say that they will not replace the West's ecconomy, but they don't need to. While BRICS+ is getting more solid, The EU ecconomy is declining and so for that matter is the US. Relying on debt the way it does has to end some where.
@TwistedApe I don't know how western Europe is coping with the economy. Here in the US, people are bone lazy compared to workers outside the country. We are fat and lazy. Even the down and out homeless are fat and lazy. The top 1% may be innovative enough to maintain a competitive edge or cheat but the other 99% are walking around looking at their cellphones and living lives financed by debt and government support. It's depressing.
Russia was only big n powerful when it was the USSR now its only one country with a despot as a leader that wants the old regime back in power... Another Stalinist powermonger... Putin needs to be put on trial for crimes against his people...
I think im right when i say America didn't invade Ukraine... Putin the power hungry warmonger was the instigator... I reckon he wants to rebuild the old USSR.. @hippyjoe1955
@TwistedApe And yet we're at a stalemate, after one year and a half of the "three days military operation".
Sheer numbers mean nothing when you can only deploy WW2 cr#p against modern NATO equipment (and we're still sending for the most part outdated/decomissioned stuff, so figure if we sent modern / state of the art stuff).
It's not really looking any good for Russia. Geopolitically wise they've lost all the credibility, they're barely a regional power whose tanks run out of fuel ~200km after the border when invading a neighboring country via land.
@deadgerbil or the west for that matter, Remember the Minsk accord? Even the German Chancellor and French Prez said they had no intention of keeping it. If neither side can trust the other, well what can be done?
Had the west not pushed NATO to the east there would be no war in Ukraine. This is the US/EU/NATO's fault. If it weren't so tragic with all the senseless deaths it would be funny.
Several months ago I read an estimate that Russia had already lost 50% of their war fighting capacity in Ukraine. That means Putin's expansionist dreams have already died a long grinding bloody death Ukraine, which is great news for almost every other nation. Russia has paid a huge price for a sliver of land, and they'll continue paying a price in the decades to come. It's a stalemate. Either side could sue for peace.
P.S. how did Comrade Putin's pizda taste today, tovarisch?
@Elessar making defense contractors rich. I’m down with it though. Investing in some Lockheed Martin. Might as well cash in on it. Let’s keep this fight going. No peace deal. Let’s keep it goin.
@YourMomsSecretCrush Complain to Putin if you want the conflict to end soon, not me or LM.
SW-User
They have a chance with NATO intervention but then it's not Ukraine v Russia any longer but even so, NATO hasn't fought a peer to peer battle before and red(Russia) v blue(US/NATO) wargames that have been conducted repeatedly show a lose for blue.
Ukraine has the advantage that they only need to keep in the field and survive as a force to avoid defeat. And avoiding defeat is all they need to do. The Russians cost of this war will get too high for them if the Ukrainians wont quit.😷
Russia has already lost but Putin's pride wont let him admit defeat. The best thing the Ukrainians can do is keep fighting. The Russian army is useless, it's all large numbers and out of date tech.
@BritishFailedAesthetic Actually it was a threat to Russia if if joined NATO. That was the reason Russia took back Crimea. If it was in UKraine and Ukraine became part of NATO the Russian armed forces bases in Crimea would become American bases in Crimea and given America's penchant for getting into foolish wars..... The Ukraine conflict is all on the US?NATO/EU/UK. Had the US kept its word that it gave in 1992 that NATO would not expand one inch eastward after reunification of the two Germanies there would be no war now.
@BritishFailedAesthetic I don't live in Europe but I do live in North America. So tell me how many wars has the US started then ran away from in your life time? I can start with Vietnam. How about you?
Defeating Russia doesn't make sense for Ukraine. It's a Murkan idea. You don't get an opinion that matters. Booooom! Lolz. Da killer kills and nobody can stop NATO from killing.
@FaithfulTalia Brutal state like the US who is persecuting a former president? A government that forced everyone to gat jabbed with a deadly substance to prevent a disease it paid to create? Here in Canada if you sent $5.00 to a trucker you had your bank account seized. You mean that kind of nasty state? Or one where crime is completely out of control and drug addicts live in tent cities? That kind of state? Take the log out of your own eye so you can see more clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye comes to mind.
