Honest question and, one in which I would not dare comment on. They must make it punitive enough.....long enough so that the Russian people either revolt or are on the brink of revolting as their sons are returned home in caskets. It's that simple. Ukraine MUST hold fast. On NATO's end, the question that remains is how long will they continue to supply Ukraine with ammo, technology and logistics? Not every NATO country can supply or continue to supply as part of the coalition, it's hardware which, they see as critical infrastructre for it's own secure borders.....and if you look at Poland right now, while they've never forgotten the tragedy of German aggression during WWII, they, like Ukraine sit on that border and, how much longer will Poland accept fleeing Ukranians as well as give up it's defensive hardware? Not all of our coalition countries have the money and industry to backfill the stockpiles they are giving to Ukraine, because they know that, they are absorbing the cost and will not be getting anything reciprocally, so....some of these countries have honest concerns. IF anythng, the larger countries need to be pouring more trainers in to Ukraine to show them how to get past the thousands of mines laid by Russia as part of their defensive ring so that in turn, Ukrainian tank gunners can exploit those breech's and pour in men and artillery. It is an axiom of war when, you go from the defensive to the offensive that, for every defensive soldier in a foxhole you need about 5 offensive soldiers to assault the position depending on doctrine so.....there are a host of questions to this equation, and it's up to professional war-planners and logistical intel to shake it all out and lay out the battle plans for each front. Regardless, it's a monumental task.
@Freeranger Sadly it is the Ukrainians who are burying their dead in numbers that simply can not be sustained. over 2000 Ukrainian soldiers were killed this weekend past.
@hippyjoe1955 as a history junkie.....just to put this in perspective.....during the American Civil War, at Cold Harbor, the Union Army lost 7,000 men killed and wounded in about 10 minutes in it's offensive assault on Confederate trenches....and that was with primitive muzzleloading rifles. Clearly, it demonstrates the difference between going to the offensive from the defensive, and that was just one battle within that 4 year time span. My greatest hope is that someone within Putin's circle will cap him.....and yet, who steps in to his shoes if he goes tits up right? It could be someone worse, though I'm not sure who could be much worse given that bastard's record.
@Freeranger Quite apart from your sense of history the facts are that Ukraine simply doesn't have the will or the means to endure. It has already burned through 3 armies. Russia is killing at least 10 Ukrainians for every Russian that Ukraine is able to kill. Almost 1/2 the Ukrainian population is outside of Ukraine. Many of the weapons given to Ukraine have been sold on the blackmarket and are winding up in Africa and Mexico or have been destroyed by Russia often before ever being used.
@hippyjoe1955 I'll let you display your facts without dispute because I just don't feel like tracking that all down. There was a day when I would but-----whatever man. I would end with this. Although I have been out of the military now for some time, as a former Marine, and Navy vet, I'll be damned that if, America was attacked, as I suspect it will be by the Russian/China coalition, that I won't glady go back and offer myself up for her. My family is a military family and we have bled and died for her. I'm still good with my weapon. I suspect a shit load of Ukranians feel the same way. I'll leave it there. Semper Fidelis
@Freeranger As a vet myself Canadian Armed Forces 1974 - 1982 I am convinced that nothing is as it seems. Going through high school at the peak and end of the Vietnam war I was left wondering what the US actually stood for. I was on exchange in 1978 and was amazed at how the US officers would never question their president. In Canada dunking on the PM was prime time sport among the officer corps. The fact is that the US has been the aggressor in too many wars to count and I lost all respect I had for Canadian PM S Harper joined Hillary's war in Libya. What was the purpose of that? At least Chretien whom as PM I loathed kept Canada out of Iraq. Why was the US in Iraq?
@Freeranger Americans have not revolted despite being sent on military operations to be massacred and mutilated in body and soul since the Korean War. Arlington Cemetery is littered with the glorious dead whose names are plastered in their thousands on war memorials throughout the USA. Going to war is an honored tradition we inherited from the damn British who is involved and working in tandem with us mucking up foreign countries throughout the world. MI5 is a forerunner of the CIA. Like father like son.
When I look at the dead bodies strewn all over the battlefield after the hatred in spent in past wars, I often wonder how politicians could succeed in sending and goading young men to die in conflicts. War takes the effort of millions. After the carnage is over, the madness is always attributed to the work of one madman.
