Government relief of US college debt...

You're treating this like you're borrowing money from a friend. That's not how student debt works.

This is effectively the government waiving tuition on institutions which for the most part are public institutions. The classes were taught, the college is open, the professors were paid, the money is covered. It's not like the government needs tha tmoney back to make rent next month.

The problem the government has is that the massive amount of student debt is a drain on the economy. It is preventing people from spending, buying, investing, and doing the things you want them to do. Instead, a slow trickle of revenue comes in to pay for shit that's already been paid for a decade ago.

This doesn't help -anyone-. Nobody's life is made better.

You can complain about bad individual decision-making, but we're talking about two full generations of people that were told by their parents they HAD to get a college degree or they'd flip burgers, and then find out the jobs are all bullshit and nobody can afford to make rent.

This is not a problem of individual decision making. It's a policy problem. It's about society and economy.

There is literally no benefit to this massive pile of unpaid student debt. It makes the US a worse country. And insisting it remain there so you can feel right about something is childish.

15 bigggest payout from the us govt to corporations.. thisis just one year. and does not inlude tax debt forgivness.
source= https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org
1 Boeing $15,374,228,475
2 General Motors $8,236,574,470
3 Intel $6,004,762,638
4 Alcoa $5,805,613,652
5 Ford Motor $5,665,318,864
6 X-Energy LLC $5,297,302,367
7 Foxconn Technology Group (Hon Hai Precision Industry Company) $4,825,691,168
8 NRG Energy $3,921,376,589
9 Cheniere Energy $3,864,202,239
10 General Atomics $3,537,371,171
11 Amazon.com $3,522,918,174
12 Sempra Energy $3,363,986,694
13 Southern Company $3,207,505,461 1
14 NextEra Energy $2,858,193,244
15 Stellantis.

I've heard arguments like this to one degree or another.

I think it is a deeply unwise, selfish, harmful, callous, privileged thing to bear no responsibility for a bad system like student loan debt and place all the responsibility on young people like 18 year olds or on individuals and say it's their own fault for being scammed or being in a bad system. And then support a system that puts many young people at a disadvantage early.in their adult life. Bankruptcy doesn't save you from student loans even. So I often advise students on helpful ways to stay on top of their loan debt when they need to start repaying.

And Sara you are lucky. I see University students all day long. The majority of people are not as privileged as you are. Sorry. But there it is.

I'm lucky I have been able to pay all bills and loans. I didn't start off with a high income, or with someone helping me pay for anything. I barely made things work. By sleeping four hours a day and working one full-time and one part time job and going to school the rest and nursing a family.member and paying their bills and my own and having loans in between when I could. I worked double shifts and two jobs every weekend. All this to go to uni and have an apartment and cheap food (sometimes bread with salad dressing) and be responsible. I worked multiple jobs after University for years. Because 1 full-time job would not pay enough. Some people cannot do this insane schedule. Nor should they. Imagine if I had to feed and take care of kids, or had to deal with divorce or recession, or getting laid off of job after job because recession. Or have medical debt, or a disability, on top of all that! Freaking impossible.

You mention relief based upon need. But is it right to give relief based on upon expecting people to give up dignity, pride, and privacy by disclosing their private hardships?

In my opinion it should not be irresponsible to work just one full-time job and still be unable to pay your loans. And yet for 90 percent of people in debt that is the case. Should they make the decision to never see family and friends because they have medical or education debt and they need to hold down multiple jobs? Then they end up as an irresponsible parent. Catch 22. Super freaking great. The only people who win are those with privilege. Hands down.

Most people in Massive debt-it's not their fault. And yet they get stuck with it for decades and called irresponsible because they weren't able to avoid it or pay it off successfully, and naturally the system punishes them further and it becomes harder and harder and more impossible to pay it and everything else in life. Bad credit score? Good luck getting a roof over your head!

Are people irresponsible sometimes? Yes. But should education or healthcare be an irresponsible choice?

Responsible people.get.stuck.with massive medical debt sometimes. Is it their responsibility too?
it is made to be their responsibility. It's apparently also their spouses responsibility sometimes too. I know people who choose to die then get medical care and be able to live because of the price because they know how awful debt is.

Should people be responsible for their decisions? Yes. Is it humane or responsible or right or wise or beneficial for a government and country to allow people to have massive debt for things like EDUCATION, housing, food, and HEALTHCARE? Is it right to allow such people to leave miserable lives for decades to pay off massive loans for such BASIC things?

Sure people can still be held responsible for their decisions and to pay reasonable loans...and not overpriced swill because capitalism demands we take advantage of people. but we can at least allow people to have a roof, have healthcare, education, and food while doing so at the fucking least.

I'm a huge supporter of socialized healthcare and tax paid tuition free education. I think homelessness caused by a bad credit score is more a shameful reflection on society then individuals. I admire Germany, Denmark, etc. and how New Mexico is making a go at it. New Mexico who only needed to allocate 1 percent of the state budget to do this. It doesn't always take much to improve lives.

I care about improving people's lives. I don't care about their circumstances, or if they have made mistakes. Improving lives means building people up instead of casting them adrift into a sea of debt over education or medical reasons and judging them for it and saying it's ok.

Quite frankly, I'd rather my taxes help pay for people's healthcare, housing, food, and education then for corporate welfare or provide taxcuts to the rich, etc.

Frankly after reading this, I'm reminded why I can't wait to leave America. I'm aware other countries have problems, but at least some of them care quite a bit more about people's quality of living then here in America.

I think the student loan forgiveness program needs to be seen in the context of other government loan forgiveness programs.

The student loan forgiveness program will end payment streams to the government worth about $300 billion in today's dollars.

During the previous administration, 10.2 million Paycheck Protection Program loans were forgiven or partially forgiven. With average forgiveness $72,000, that works out to $734 billion in loan forgiveness subsidies to business owners.

Agricultural payments are too complex for me to sort thru for this little item, but in addition to farm loan forgiveness, there have been decades of agricultural price supports and payments to farmers not to grow crops. We've have a rich history of subsidizing farms ever since the great depression.

In other words, in the context of other loan forgiveness & subsidies, Biden's student loan forgiveness program is not a big deal at all and in fact may benefit a segment of the citizenry who have missed out on many other subsidies. In context there's nothing unfair about it.


Full disclosure, I've never had student loans; my wife paid hers in full.

@sarabee1995 I'm with @Scribbles on this. Her reply elsewhere was excellent.

I agree with you in principle. It is not right to "bribe the public with the public's money." But no one is being offered a bribe. We're giving help to people who need it. Just like we bailed out the banks after the great recession of 2008. Is it ideal? No, it's not. But the situation we are in requires us to do something, because the alternative is worse.

Usually it is people from my generation complaining about how "kids these days have it so much easier than we did." But the reality is that the costs for a degree are radically different than they were when I got my undergrad.

In a perfect world, we would be offering students more help up front through grants or reduced tuition costs. But we do NOT live in a perfect world. College matters. I will never judge someone who didn't go to college, but I believe education is worth it at any price. College causes you to grow in ways you never would without it. And it's not fair to saddle young people with a debt they will be paying for the rest of their lives.

So I agree, it's less-than-ideal. But it's necessary. Therefore I support it.

Worst idea ever! Teaching people that they don’t have to be responsible for their actions is a disaster and a disgrace to all who have worked hard for years to pay their loans back. These idiots are out of touch and out of control in D.C.

As I have said to. you before I live in Canada... I was raised here educated her and yes attended university here.. Both of my Daughters were as well our universities in Canada are top notch and equal to the to the best schools - anywhere. The quality of the graduates in the professions, be it law, medicine, engineering etc. allow Canada to effectively compete with anyone...

So what? The cost of tuition here is subsidized and is quite affordable for Canadian citizens, it is fractional to the costs in the USA.. So like universal health care which results in our life expectancy being significantly higher than it is in the USA, our graduates are NOT saddled with HUGE student debts to obtain degrees and function within society... Instead our graduates who earn well as a result of those degrees pay TAXES and those TAXES subsidize health care and university tuition...

I know... the students in the USA knew what they were signing up for when they went to university... but what choices did they really have but to pay those exorbitant tuition costs to get an education?

The real problem in the USA is that you are ALL not paying nearly enough taxes to make the programs that you NEED to function as a society - a just society ... work... and until YOU come to grips with this reality and fix it... you will keep having these types of discussions...

I fully agree people should be responsible and I work as a receptionist in a small hospital! 🤗🤗🤗 I know you say you are to the right of politics in economics which is fine I am to in some ways however my son who has severe autism (my autism is very mild) is completely non verbal which means he doesn't talk. He has never really spoken and he is 14 years old. He goes to a school that only accepts disabled children and he has the mind of a toddler. When he is upset he has been known to violently punch his own head full force or headbutt the wall until his head is bleeding which is scary for any loving mother! He has zero conceot of danger or road sense and he needs help using the toilet too! 😇😇😇

Why am I telling you about my disabled son? Well, you said you don't support government subsidies at all! I agree if someone was lazy but there are genuine disabled people out there who need help and welfare! 🤗🤗🤗

How can my son when he is older possibly get a job and work when he doesn't talk, tries to eat stuff he shouldn't, hits himself full force when upset, has no road sense, needs help using the toilet and needs round the clock care! He can't! 🙄🙄🙄 So when the right wing are against the government and state helping people they are punishing the most vulnerable like my son bless him! 🤗🤗🤗

The biggest problem with a strong welfare system is lazy people decide to lie and say they are disabled when they are not to get free money and not work! 😤😤😤 That is wrong but my son is as genuine as you can get! Remember he is like a toddler. If the state never helped true disabled people would be in trouble! 😭😭😭 Most disabled people can work and I have mild autism and I work and love my job! 🤗🤗🤗 But my precious son is not going to be able to work when he is older and for the genuine disabled who need help like my son I fully support a strong welfare system! 💖💖💖

I say what I said to my aunt, a whole generation +, verging on 2, had it drilled into their head that college was the only way to succeed in life/business, and a 17/18 year old is supposed to take their lifetime of experience,

in which they many not have a bank account, or credit card, were never taught accounting or business math in school and sign their life away to 6-figures of compound interest.

Only to enter the work force to a saturated field of people educated to the same level, Because everybody went to college, you end up with people angry that they can't get a $50k job in their field of study, to pay off the $100k of student loans.

when you look at other developed countries with the same standard of living as the US, All of them have secondary education partially or fully funded by the government.

a full understanding of 6-figures of compound interest would Alone would keep some from going to college, much less the whole knowledge of the tech/trade school route, in which you go to classes for 6 months or a year end up making nearly as much money as the college route, With a nearly 6-figure debt.

trade school isn't for everyone but we need an even spread,

society pressure a whole generation into college, it's time society makes up for it.

I've made some poor financial decisions in my time too.
I paid for them, and learned from them.
No sense in further cheating these students from a learning opportunity.

"I don't support government subsidies. Period."

So, what are your thoughts on the biggest government subsidy of all, the military?

"It's called capitalism and, until it is replaced by something else, it is the system we have in place."

So, how does this system, that you have in place, impact on the cost of education in America?

Here's a thought, maybe if the cost of education in America wasn't so high, people could gain an education without falling into prohibitive debt. IDK, could be something worth pondering, right?

🤷‍♂️

I agree mostly with your examples, but most debts aren't that simple.


I believe the vast majority of debts arise out of situations like this. Take a restaurant or shop during the pandemic for example. Scientists have been warning that one would be inevitable sooner or later with our limited biodiversity and massive farms. Does that make it a bad decision to open one? Was it their fault they didn't generate any money when people were told not to gather? Should and could they have a backup plan to survive until they could reopen?

What about people who did all the math correctly and saved up enough for the rest of their life before retiring? Then a war broke out at the other end of the world, inflation skyrocketed and they needed much more than they could reasonably have anticipated.

Let's take another person with a well paying job. He works hard, he gets along well with his manager and there is no reason to assume he'll be fired anytime soon. He takes out a mortgage he can easily pay back in 15 years on his salary and invests it in a nice home. Halfway through paying it off, the company is taken over and the new boss wants to do things differently. The employee is no longer needed, he can't find another job in the same field, has no money for additional education, his house dropped in value so he can't take out another loan to invest in improvement of any kind. What should he have done differently?

And so there are many, many examples of how people end up in poverty outside any fault of their own. And once you're poor, everything gets more expensive so you don't get out of that easily.

If it really is a consequence of a bad decision, sure, let them deal with it themselves. But that's really a very small percentage of all debts, and people deserve some help when they are just very unlucky.

That raises a second question though: who should provide that help? I think the tax system in most countries isn't very fair. People who just about get around, pay relatively more taxes than those who don't even know what to do with their money anymore. Big companies and milionairs can easily carry a lot more weight than they do now, almost without noticing, so the average Joe doesn't have to pay so much for others.

This is quite a long thread and I'm glad people are thinking about the problem. I wish I had time to read it all.

I think we should let the unfettered free market work on the problem of outrageously high educational costs. Most of college education these days is just woke indoctrination paid for by government anyway.

Some kind of balanced budget amendment would force government to consider tradeoffs in it budget priorities (both spending and taxation). Otherwise the current 30 trillion in debt will quickly become 40 and then 50 and so on. The student debt crisis must be seen in this context. It's a small but important part. The taxpayers will never really pay for it because it will be monetized away. We'lll all pay through higher inflation and a stagnant GDP.

I love people who don’t even live in the USA making comments and forming opinions on how WE should live and do in our country.

Nothing should be subsidised....let market forces prevail.
If you can't afford taking on debt don't.
You need a return on investment.
Never borrow on a depreciating asset.
Education is an investment for the future you better make sure it pays.
Planning. If you fail to plan you're planning to fail.
I had a gap year before I did an undergraduate degree, worked the holidays. Student debt paid off years ago.

I agree with Sara.

Perhaps if the education they are borrowing for is actually worth the money and a job was waiting for graduates and the starting salary is at least as much as half of what the degree costs … then I would say it’s a good idea. But college for most students is not worth the money . A liberal arts degree in leadership studies might make you qualified for a shift manager at a soup kitchen, but likely not. Education has basically been destroyed by the left . Teachers are almost all democrats ( socialists) and their goal is not making sure your kids get a quality education. Their “profession” is really the only way they can make a living because the government is invested in indoctrination and not education. Now the left is bribing people for votes , which can only end in disaster.

I am of a different opinion about subsidies to me honestly given what we witnessed with solar it is now evident that the government can bootstrap nascent industries into widespread adoption. I think it should use this power. And wisely. it's unclear if solar would be growing like a weed if it had not been subsidized past certain hurdles.

it doesn't need subsidizes any more but I've voted for them repeatedly just because I want this nation off dirty energy effectively yesterday.

I think the whole higher education structure in this country is messed up. There is no reason why state universities should get funding (from the state) whilst the president of said uni makes millions of dollars + added benefits.

My state's governor is a Republican and he has really decreased funding of our university system. The university spent 3 million for an outside firm to come in and attempt to find ways to save money - their option was to cut jobs. They offered incentives for people to retire early and others were let go. The president is still making 2 million though 🙄

People trip because individuals struggle to repay students loans. Hell, our own govt is like 30 trillion in debt and they cannot repay that. But let us fault the little guys.

Plus, I think a lot of people borrow, study, do classes, sacrifice, graduate, are now in debt and THEN they find out their degree doesn't mean jack squat. Not just silly things like liberal arts or English studies but stuff that is suppose to be in demand.

I have experienced that myself.

We are sold the idea from the time we are in kindergarten that college is the key to a successful life. In the real world, no one gives two sh*ts about someone's education.

So then we get to a point where not only are we still working menial jobs but then suppose to pay back loans for something that helped us none?

It's not Congress it's Biden
The President doesn't have the authority to do this and Congress won't allow it.

Everyone in favor of this is a fan of short term gains. Safety nets only breed more desire for safety nets and the nets only get bigger

You're not wrong, i just feel you have your order of operations out of whack.

Accountability should start from the top down. You can't bail out the banks and the general motors then turn around and tell the working class to go fuck itself when it believed you when you said college was the only way and acted accordingly.

Give them the same boost you gave the top, and then we can talk about personal accountability after the fact so long as it starts at the elite level and rolls its way down to us as it should.

Funny thing is it wasnt even congress that just gave out all that money, it was biden himself, which is illegal for him to do.. only congress can pass the law to excuse student loans

Life is not fair. Others have it easier than me. ☹️

It isnt debt forgiveness its debt transfer

I don't think it is harsh, I think people should be held to lawfully made agreements. taxpayers shouldn't be saddled with debt for poor choices made by others.

Well researched and written. Excellent and accurate points. Great job!

Power to the people!

Great points

https://similarworlds.com/politics/4232675-I-am-confused-At-what-age-in-a-humans-life-does

You sure do take a lot of words to say you don't understand how student loans work.

https://similarworlds.com/politics/4232675-I-am-confused-At-what-age-in-a-humans-life-does