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Government relief of US college debt...



Have we reached the point predicted two hundred years ago where Congress has figured out how to bribe the American people with the people's own money??

We raise taxes (the people's money) and use it to subsidize everything from cheap oil and computer chips to bankrupt banks and auto makers. We use it to provide economic stimulus payments in down times and now to pay off student debts.

I know I've posted in the past about my support for access to abortion services and my support of marriage equality and transgender acceptance so many of you might consider me to be quite liberal across the board. And it's true that I support many liberal/progressive issues. But when it comes to economics and individual responsibility I tend to the fairly extreme right side of politics.

I don't support government subsidies. Period.

I think oil companies should pay fair market value for the land they drill on.
I think coal companies should pay the full life cycle cost of their ore.
I think solar electric should also should pay its full life cycle costs.
Same with wind.

If your car company can't make a profit, then maybe the guy who buys your factory from the bankruptcy court can.

If your bank is too big to fail, then take better care of it. Don't come to me with your hands out when you screw up.

And, if you borrow money to buy a home or get an education, then have a plan to pay it back.

It's called capitalism and, until it is replaced by something else, it is the system we have in place.





Let me tell you a story about one of my cousins. He's a couple years younger than I am. He's really a second cousin or maybe third, I'm not quite sure how all that works. In any case, he came to me when I was in my second year at university because he wanted to go to college and it wasn't looking possible for him. So we talked about it.

He wanted to go for the traditional four year bachelor's degree. He was really into theater arts and stage lighting and audio production. I asked him a simply question ... In that world would a bachelor's degree impact his income? In other words, how many years would it take for the increased income take to pay off the cost of a four year degree? A simple "return on investment" conversation (and no, I wasn't a business major).

He looked into it. What he found was stunning to us both. In that world, people with a degree and people without a degree made essentially the same money. It was crazy. He decided to take the savings he was able to blow on a first semester and instead bought some equipment. If I remember right, it was a trailer to cart stuff around and a bunch of lights and cables and speakers and some kind of board to control audio ... and he started going around to various venues and bars and clubs and offered to run events for them. He was 18.

My grandfather provided a lot of really good business advice and today he is 26 and has three crews running around Boston doing corporate events during the day and evening events at bars and clubs. No degree, no debt.

My point in bringing him up in this conversation about education debt is because he did assess (at my urging) what the debt of a four year degree would end up costing him and whether the benefit of that degree would support that debt. In his field it would not.





For other's the calculation may be different, but it is a basic calculation that anyone taking on any kind of debt (education, real estate, car, etc) should and could run. This is not advanced calculus.

So when I hear that people are strapped with huge debt and can't make their payments, I do feel bad. But I think it is fair to ask how they got into that situation and whether it is due to matters beyond their control or not.
- Took on loans and then got sick and couldn't finish school? Okay, legit issue and maybe some relief should be offered.
- Took on loans without thinking of payback and now don't make enough to support the debt? We have a process to handle this already in place. It is called bankruptcy. It comes with consequences, but it works and is fair to borrower and lender.





Am I too harsh here? Are we responsible for our decisions?





Edit: I became aware through the comments below and some personal research that student debt cannot be eliminated through bankruptcy. This is crazy. The concept of bankruptcy is critical to the smooth functioning of a capitalist economy. If someone truly took on too much debt through poor planning, then bankruptcy should be available to them and the federal guaranty would kick in and make the lender whole.
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HoraceGreenley · 61-69, M
It's not Congress it's Biden
The President doesn't have the authority to do this and Congress won't allow it.
room101 · 51-55, M
@HoraceGreenley It must be really shocking for you that a President actually tried to keep a campaign promise🤣🤣🤣
HoraceGreenley · 61-69, M
@room101 not at all...buying votes is as old as elections
room101 · 51-55, M
@HoraceGreenley And you Repugs know all about that🤣🤣🤣

When that fails, you indulge in your next favourite strategy, voter suppression.
HoraceGreenley · 61-69, M
room101 · 51-55, M
@HoraceGreenley erm...........remind me again, who was it that voted against measures to stop price gouging by oil companies?

Who was it that gave $1trillion tax cuts to the wealthiest people and businesses on the planet?

Who is it that completely ignores the fact that the USA has some of the most stringent immigration laws in the developed world?

Your level of delusion is astonishing.
HoraceGreenley · 61-69, M
@room101 First, a basic understanding of economics demonstrates that there is no "price gouging" and besides no such legislation was passed.

The wealthiest people pay the most in taxes, so that's not surprise. What you fail to consider is thT the poor and middle class did better economically under Trump than Obama or Biden in terms of medidian income and employment.

We have immigration laws...Democrats just don't enforce them.

You are a Nut Job
room101 · 51-55, M
@HoraceGreenley WOW! That's some serious desperation and delusion going on right there🤣🤣🤣
HoraceGreenley · 61-69, M
@room101 I'm not desperate. You are delusional.
room101 · 51-55, M
@HoraceGreenley Nice of you to show us all a vid of you starting your day.

FUCKING IDIOT!
HoraceGreenley · 61-69, M
@room101
You're a waste of oxygen
sarabee1995 · 26-30, F
@room101 @HoraceGreenley Guys! Please play nice in the sand box. You're both friends of mine, but right now you sound like a pair of idiots. 🤦‍♀️
room101 · 51-55, M
@sarabee1995 Tell me, what level of idiocy is required to deny what people all over the world can see?

This may seem like hyperbole but, many of us see America facing an existential crises. One that has been brought about (and is being cheered along) by people like this guy.

Many of us are concerned about what would happen if the great American experiment fails. We all know the adage that nature abhors a vacuum so, who will step in to fill that vacuum should American democracy come tumbling down? Another area of great concern is your military power. How will that military might be used if America becomes a fascist state?

Your "friend" has stated:

First, a basic understanding of economics demonstrates that there is no "price gouging" and besides no such legislation was passed.

The wealthiest people pay the most in taxes, so that's not surprise. What you fail to consider is thT the poor and middle class did better economically under Trump than Obama or Biden in terms of medidian income and employment.

We have immigration laws...Democrats just don't enforce them.


What do we call a situation where oil companies are routinely posting record profits whilst ordinary people are paying some of the highest petrol prices ever seen?

No, legislation wasn't passed. Because REPUBLICANS BLOCKED IT! Which was exactly my point. And he's got the gall to tell me to focus.

I'm not even going to bother with the rest of his rant because it's just that, a rant.

Sara, in your various replies you argue against regulated capitalism and for, unfettered capitalism.

Capitalism is necessary (even Karl Marx himself acknowledged that much). BUT, unfettered capitalism is, by its very nature, destructive. We have seen the truth of that statement play out before us since the Industrial Revolution.

Sorry Sara but this nonsense makes my blood boil. Consequently, I'm done with trying to play nice in the sandbox with such catastrophically stupid individuals.
room101 · 51-55, M
@HoraceGreenley And you're a waste of the very few brain cells God bestowed upon you. He would have been better served by giving them to a chimpanzee.
HoraceGreenley · 61-69, M
@sarabee1995 There is no reasonable way to deal with delusion
HoraceGreenley · 61-69, M
@room101 Capitalism is defined by 3 things:
1. Markets set prices
2. Property rights
3. Rule of law

There is no price gouging. Markets set prices not companies. You need that basic understanding to follow my point.

Secondly the Biden administration, through its use of regulation, caused domestic energy production to decline precipitously. By decreasing supply, during a period of increasing demand, prices skyrocketed.

This is Economics 101...Supply abd Demand.

Biden wishes to shift blame to energy producers claiming they are "Price Gouging."
HoraceGreenley · 61-69, M
@room101 You lack understanding of how the world works.
room101 · 51-55, M
@HoraceGreenley Capitalism is defined as follows:

"an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state."

That's it. The end.

For profit!

The fact that you think that a nation should be run for profit shows just how little you actually understand about anything, least of all how the world works.
HoraceGreenley · 61-69, M
@room101 That defintion is not correct.
Secondly a country may have Capitalism as an economic system but the country itself doesn't run as a for profit business.

You sound like a communist.

Your ignorance doesn't make me wrong.
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