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Government relief of US college debt...



Have we reached the point predicted two hundred years ago where Congress has figured out how to bribe the American people with the people's own money??

We raise taxes (the people's money) and use it to subsidize everything from cheap oil and computer chips to bankrupt banks and auto makers. We use it to provide economic stimulus payments in down times and now to pay off student debts.

I know I've posted in the past about my support for access to abortion services and my support of marriage equality and transgender acceptance so many of you might consider me to be quite liberal across the board. And it's true that I support many liberal/progressive issues. But when it comes to economics and individual responsibility I tend to the fairly extreme right side of politics.

I don't support government subsidies. Period.

I think oil companies should pay fair market value for the land they drill on.
I think coal companies should pay the full life cycle cost of their ore.
I think solar electric should also should pay its full life cycle costs.
Same with wind.

If your car company can't make a profit, then maybe the guy who buys your factory from the bankruptcy court can.

If your bank is too big to fail, then take better care of it. Don't come to me with your hands out when you screw up.

And, if you borrow money to buy a home or get an education, then have a plan to pay it back.

It's called capitalism and, until it is replaced by something else, it is the system we have in place.





Let me tell you a story about one of my cousins. He's a couple years younger than I am. He's really a second cousin or maybe third, I'm not quite sure how all that works. In any case, he came to me when I was in my second year at university because he wanted to go to college and it wasn't looking possible for him. So we talked about it.

He wanted to go for the traditional four year bachelor's degree. He was really into theater arts and stage lighting and audio production. I asked him a simply question ... In that world would a bachelor's degree impact his income? In other words, how many years would it take for the increased income take to pay off the cost of a four year degree? A simple "return on investment" conversation (and no, I wasn't a business major).

He looked into it. What he found was stunning to us both. In that world, people with a degree and people without a degree made essentially the same money. It was crazy. He decided to take the savings he was able to blow on a first semester and instead bought some equipment. If I remember right, it was a trailer to cart stuff around and a bunch of lights and cables and speakers and some kind of board to control audio ... and he started going around to various venues and bars and clubs and offered to run events for them. He was 18.

My grandfather provided a lot of really good business advice and today he is 26 and has three crews running around Boston doing corporate events during the day and evening events at bars and clubs. No degree, no debt.

My point in bringing him up in this conversation about education debt is because he did assess (at my urging) what the debt of a four year degree would end up costing him and whether the benefit of that degree would support that debt. In his field it would not.





For other's the calculation may be different, but it is a basic calculation that anyone taking on any kind of debt (education, real estate, car, etc) should and could run. This is not advanced calculus.

So when I hear that people are strapped with huge debt and can't make their payments, I do feel bad. But I think it is fair to ask how they got into that situation and whether it is due to matters beyond their control or not.
- Took on loans and then got sick and couldn't finish school? Okay, legit issue and maybe some relief should be offered.
- Took on loans without thinking of payback and now don't make enough to support the debt? We have a process to handle this already in place. It is called bankruptcy. It comes with consequences, but it works and is fair to borrower and lender.





Am I too harsh here? Are we responsible for our decisions?





Edit: I became aware through the comments below and some personal research that student debt cannot be eliminated through bankruptcy. This is crazy. The concept of bankruptcy is critical to the smooth functioning of a capitalist economy. If someone truly took on too much debt through poor planning, then bankruptcy should be available to them and the federal guaranty would kick in and make the lender whole.
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Jackaloftheazuresand · 26-30, M
Everyone in favor of this is a fan of short term gains. Safety nets only breed more desire for safety nets and the nets only get bigger
SW-User
@Jackaloftheazuresand i feel like everyone against this is either, or a combination of, selfish, pompous, callous, ignorant, over-privileged, and/or straight up spiteful. But that's just my opinion.

Countries like denmark seem to be making things like this work very well and if we are as great as we say we are then surely we can do it even better.
Jackaloftheazuresand · 26-30, M
@SW-User You say that like it's a bad thing. Aside from ignorance which I think is much more prevalent from the compassionate. The callous are exactly why we are as advanced as we are.

Denmark doesn't hold any real power. It's convenient that all these socially geared countries do so from their bubbles of protection, it's almost as if their systems can't stand on their own. Suckling at an even bigger teat and then pretending they are self sufficient because of their domestics, that's what this evolves too.
Elessar · 31-35, M
@Jackaloftheazuresand
The callous are exactly why we are as advanced as we are
Quite the opposite. Society is what it is now because at some point the selfish, pompous, callous, ignorant, over-privileged, and/or straight up spiteful have begun getting guillotined in France.
Jackaloftheazuresand · 26-30, M
@Elessar Hahaha, you think the executioners were good guys. The good die out
Elessar · 31-35, M
@Jackaloftheazuresand They weren't, but nonetheless, my point still stands.
Jackaloftheazuresand · 26-30, M
@Elessar No it doesn't. I know you think because you declare something that makes it true, but that's not the case. If the evil ones were the ones doing the beheading of other evil ones and you say society is the way it is because of that then you are agreeing with me that the callous made us. That's not "quite the opposite." Go back to fighting the lessers because I'm way above what you are used to little fish
Elessar · 31-35, M
@Jackaloftheazuresand Go complain with the vast majority of historians who deem the French Revolution as a tripping point in the history of society then. What are your credentials, aside from being a bullsh*tter on SW?

Go back to fighting the lessers
That's what I'm doing here, but regardless it's not your business what I do with my own time. ;)
Jackaloftheazuresand · 26-30, M
@Elessar Oh dear, it seems I busted your ego too much and you not only lost the ability to comprehend what I said but you also forgot it after. Memory loss is a symptom of trauma though so what can you do really. Make up whatever you want just like last time then turn tail and run again
Elessar · 31-35, M
@Jackaloftheazuresand
I'm way above what you are used to
it seems I busted your ego too much

Make peace with your brain. Your dementia progression is evidently worse than mine if you can't keep up with what you've written literally one comment ago lol

Since you're at it, also take a bath in humility. Metaphorically licking the b#lls of the powerful and betraying your class doesn't make you "better", it's actually just pathetic.
Jackaloftheazuresand · 26-30, M
@Elessar And the problem is?

Another assumption from you. I am part of the wealthy, oops
Elessar · 31-35, M
@Jackaloftheazuresand Open a dictionary and look what you find out under "ego" then report back, lmao

Sure, while I'm a world-famous pornstar and my d*ck is three feet long. Everyone can be anything on the internet. My bet is on you being just the umpteenth pathetic (and poor) sociopath with a SW account...
Jackaloftheazuresand · 26-30, M
@Elessar I have the courtesy to explain how you're wrong and you just want to send me off to do my own research. That's odd.

And you can distract from your arrogance with comfortable , false beliefs
Elessar · 31-35, M
@Jackaloftheazuresand Since you're at it, also search "(psychological) projection" on that dictionary of yours.

You have shown no courtesy whatsoever, just that you're the umpteenth idiotic classist sociopath with ego issues and a SW account and who claims to know history better than historians lol
Jackaloftheazuresand · 26-30, M
@Elessar You're the one prattling on about historians. I found a flaw in your words not these historians you evoke
Elessar · 31-35, M
@Jackaloftheazuresand No, you literally claimed that the executions happened during the French Revolution didn't contribute to shaping society as it is now. Have you forgot already?

Me: Society is what it is now because at some point the selfish, pompous, callous, ignorant, over-privileged, and/or straight up spiteful have begun getting guillotined in France.

You: Hahaha, you think the executioners were good guys. The good die out

Me: They weren't, but nonetheless, my point still stands.

You: No it doesn't.


https://www.britannica.com/summary/Causes-and-Effects-of-the-French-Revolution


https://books.google.com/books?hl=it&lr=&id=y7dCAQAAMAAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA1&dq=french+revolution+effects&ots=mIm_7R3-wX&sig=WJ69iDeibtfBxPKdhulDb7lJeus


https://books.google.com/books?hl=it&lr=&id=I6N3HjFiH4wC&oi=fnd&pg=PR5&dq=french+revolution+effects&ots=WcSH2vNnZa&sig=QCH9tM41asJk1JCv9TbiC-ielTA

https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aer.101.7.3286

https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/mono/10.4324/9781315564265/world-french-revolution-palmer

Reality doesn't quite agree with your beliefs. Unsurprisingly, the sociopath live in their own fictional mental parallel universe.
Jackaloftheazuresand · 26-30, M
@Elessar Because you framed it as being "quite the opposite." Keep up
Elessar · 31-35, M
@Jackaloftheazuresand I didn't frame anything, I've said things as they are compatibly with literally any source you can find about the French Revolution.

In other words, quit your bullsh*t ;)
Jackaloftheazuresand · 26-30, M
@Elessar oh boy he's back on this kick.

Do pokemon, digimon, and gargoyles mean anything to you?
Elessar · 31-35, M
@Jackaloftheazuresand Oh look, an ad hominem! Who would've ever expected it?

Here's a reminder, since your dementia is making you go off topic:

Me: Society is what it is now because at some point the selfish, pompous, callous, ignorant, over-privileged, and/or straight up spiteful have begun getting guillotined in France.

You: Hahaha, you think the executioners were good guys. The good die out

Me: They weren't, but nonetheless, my point still stands.

You: No it doesn't.


https://www.britannica.com/summary/Causes-and-Effects-of-the-French-Revolution


https://books.google.com/books?hl=it&lr=&id=y7dCAQAAMAAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA1&dq=french+revolution+effects&ots=mIm_7R3-wX&sig=WJ69iDeibtfBxPKdhulDb7lJeus


https://books.google.com/books?hl=it&lr=&id=I6N3HjFiH4wC&oi=fnd&pg=PR5&dq=french+revolution+effects&ots=WcSH2vNnZa&sig=QCH9tM41asJk1JCv9TbiC-ielTA

https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aer.101.7.3286

https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/mono/10.4324/9781315564265/world-french-revolution-palmer
Jackaloftheazuresand · 26-30, M
@Elessar answer the question or did I break you again
Elessar · 31-35, M
@Jackaloftheazuresand Sorry if I'm staying on topic. The topic being that you believe the executions happened during the French Revolution didn't contribute to shaping society as it is now. Are you convinced now, or are you still going to try to cowardly hide your f*ck up behind further ad-hominems, strawmans and deflection? 😆
Jackaloftheazuresand · 26-30, M
@Elessar You strayed long ago and I'm pretty sure I caught you. I'm only interested in entertaining myself now. You can keep your madness
Elessar · 31-35, M
@Jackaloftheazuresand I didn't actually, I'm speaking about the effects of the French Revolution on shaping modern society since the very first comment, as you can easily verify by scrolling up.

You haven't answered, are you convinced now? 😏

I'm only interested in entertaining myself now.
Like this? 😆