The End Is Near

@AkioTsukino and still no mention of the evidence I provided for you.

Understandable in light of your inability to explain it

@newjaninev2 It's like you have this insatiable ego that must be appeased in some farcical contest which I'm not interested in. I don't dogmatically insist you evaluate the evidence I've accrued in my Biblical examination. I understand that you are woefully inept at doing so by choice. Why can't you accept my choice?

I've told you I'm not interested or qualified to fairly examine much less debate the subject. I've asked for the basics and I get a dissertation and dogmatic insistence. I've told you this repeatedly and you just keep at it.

You could probably teach me a great deal, which I could use as a critical tool against evolution but you are going about it all wrong. You couldn't be more wrong in your interaction with me. That's why I'm not interested.

@AkioTsukino You’ve studiously ignored even the basics. Perhaps you should restrict yourself to discussing the finer points of Harry Potter novels, and leave reality to the realists.


(thank you for crediting me with the Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection... I'll give you a wave from the award ceremony in Stockholm)


and yet your response to the evidence is to run away and pretend it never happened.

When pressed, you say that you’re not interested

Make a claim, expect to be challenged to support that claim

After all, that’s how science works.

@Diotrephes
That’s the point. You look at the numbers, the stories in the Bible don’t work. So if it can’t get the math right. Why believe anything in it ?

@DocSavage If you want to see some weird numbers read the Jewish Babylonian Talmud.

@AkioTsukino

In an interview I saw a while back, a Rabbi explained that the Jewish religion only acknowledges one god . Jehovah, not Jehovah and Jesus.
When Jesus became the “way” he put himself on parr without the guy who told them right off the bat “no other god but me “ it had nothing to do with temple records. Fact is, not everyone believes the hype . Not everyone was convinced , speaking as an Atheist, I agree.

@newjaninev2
They still haven’t explained that , have they ?

@AkioTsukino
Anything ready yet?

No rush... I’ll check back later

@AkioTsukino A few days ago I taught you that evolution is change in the frequency and distribution of alleles.

That’s it. That’s evolution. That’s all it is

I further pointed out that by rejecting that, you’re claiming that the only form of life on Earth is whatever qualified as the first living organism.that you’re claiming that there are no species, and never have been... you’re claiming that all life on Earth is a primordial organism.

You indicated that you didn’t understand all that, and that you didn’t care.

I’m just checking that you’re still happy to live in abject ignorance of evolutionary realities. If not, just say the word and I’d be happy to give you some more coaching.

The offer remains open as long as you need.

@AkioTsukino Understanding, explanatory power, and predictive power are the antithesis of illusion

...and you still haven’t told me what an ‘evolutionist’ would be

Ladies and gentlemen we have a treat for you now. Our resident fountain of misinformation @newjaninev2 is here to expound at us. Please give him around of a pause! Take it away, Kiwi . . . or is that Ikiwisi? Just remember, folks, здесь вам врут (zdes' vam vrut).


Didn't I? Yes I did. Crazy militant fundamentalist atheist with a religious agenda that harps and harps on you like a sidewalk hellfire preacher. Ironically.

@AkioTsukino So you equate atheism and the Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection?

They’re two discrete topics

_____________________________

There are several comments that you are actively avoiding... let’s see if you’ll finally address them:

In what way can an atheist be fundamentalist, militant, or religious, what sort of agenda would atheism involve... and why do you feel that correcting your mistakes is preaching?

_____________________________

Please specify the lie

In fact, forget the ‘please’

Specify the lie

_____________________________

Of course, I have given up hoping that you will in any way address the evidence for evolution that I gave you.

I realise that evidence frightens you and that you spend your life avoiding it.

edit and addendum

I realise that you will now declare that you have absolutely no interest in evolution and then run away, but before you do that...


I assume you’ll need a decade or two to prepare those, yes?

@Diotrephes So, this is just your personal interpretation.

@Diotrephes
In Greek mythology. After the flood “Noah” was told to throw the bones of his mother on the ground.
“Mother” being Mother Earth. He took some rocks, tossed them around, and full grown humans sprang up from them. Repopulating the world
Trust Christians to do it the hard way.

@LordShadowfire Any other interpretation would be someone's else's so why should I value a stranger's opinion over my own? After all, we are just discussing an ancient ethnocentric Middle Eastern Jewish religious fairy tale and not if 2+2=4 or 8.

@AkioTsukino Which thread will you post in?

@Diotrephes I started a new one. It's here https://similarworlds.com/atheism/4335512-Diotrephes-Part-I-Ideological-Fixation-And-The

@AkioTsukinoThe radioactive decay of isotopes.

Would you like me to take you through that?

@DocSavage I read an article yesterday that hinted at how animals evolved to the point where they got their heads out of their asses. The interesting thing is that at least one animal group still doesn't have anything that passes as a head, the yellow sea squirt.

The Evolution of a Head Has Been Traced Back Surprisingly Far Up Our Ancestral Line
https://www.sciencealert.com/the-evolution-of-the-head-has-been-traced-back-to-our-closest-blob-like-ancestors

@AkioTsukino
Regardless of the technical definition of “zombie” it still means a reanimated corpse to everyone .

@DocSavage
Hah. Everyone are idiots.

@AkioTsukino I'm an atheist but did attend church when I was a pre-teen.

You do a good job of picking and choosing.

Jesus said that if a person had faith the size of a mustard seed that he could command a tree, or even a mountain. to uproot itself and to jump into the sea and that the tree, or the mountain, would obey. Why hasn't anyone ever had any faith? Maybe Jesus was just a liar.

The story plainly says that countless people saw God. Moses was always talking to him face to face. Others had a picnic with him. He was in their camps.

What about those corpse that popped out of their graves in Matthew 27:51-53 and went to visit their buddies? Don't they classify as zombies?

All of the biblical stories, except for some in the Apocrypha, illustrate one or more of the real Ten Commandments (Exodus 34:11-26) in action. The miracles are based on Exodus 34:10. Read and understand that section and the read any story and you will see the connection. The stories themselves don't have to make logical sense because that is not their real purpose. They are meant to get the listener, or the reader, to reflect on the Ten Commandments.

1 Corinthians 15:15-16 says that since it is normal for dead people to be raised from the dead that means that Jesus was also raised from the dead,

1 Corinthians 15:15-16 (MEV) = "15 Yes, and we would then be found false witnesses of God, because we have testified that God raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up, if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ has not been raised."

How many actual dead people have you seen in your lifetime rise from the dead? TV and movies don't count.

Notice that the passage doesn't say that since Jesus was resurrected from the dead, everyone else will also be resurrected. It says that because dead people are routinely resurrected, it means that Jesus was also resurrected. The passage was included that way to show that the story is just an elaborate hoax. There are countless passages like that scattered throughout the Bible.

edited to added comment

@walabby Now, calm down!

Just responding to the Subject Heading? A lot of that these days. The Bible says the end began a great deal longer than 2000 years ago. More like 6000. Some of Jesus' audience was alive when he returned. It was three days. Jesus never told his audience that some of them would be alive in the end. He told them no one knew when that would happen. Not even him.

Now, I bet you feel silly, huh?!

@walabby When you live forever, what's 2,000 years?

@Diotrephes
It'd be about 2,000 years.

@DocSavage
Explain why you think there aren't any.


Which is why from the start I questioned if there was even a debate and asked if there were what it might be. No answer. Just long winded conjectural scenarios and descriptions of things not evolving into other things.


Name other examples besides the ones in the video. Mule?


I wouldn't be so foolish to suggest that because its interpretation appears to be nonsense. And you haven't established anything at all that I can see.

@AkioTsukino

There are species. There are subspecies. If you believe there are “kinds” like dog kind, or cat kind, or bird kind. And Noah only needed two of each.
The only way you can have so many variations today is by evolution. Which you say doesn’t happen. Each “kind” could only produce it own .

@AkioTsukino
One of these is a picture of a duck, which one ?

@AkioTsukino I wouldn't. I don't control the universe or the end of time. God does.

@SW-User
Not sure what this is in response to, Frag.

@AkioTsukino To this, Semm. 😁

@DocSavage
There is an abundance of evidence well documented over the last hundred plus years. It can be duplicated in the lab. Isn't that what evolutionists always say?

@AkioTsukino
Still takes time. Are you really willing to wait that long ?
No one said the process was quick, or that the change would take place all at once.
The devil is in the details. If you want to play, play fair.

@AkioTsukino It's very easy to see when you read the story. Adam was created from dust (Genesis 2:7), his purpose was to till the ground (Genesis 2:5). The Garden of Eden was created (Genesis 2:8). Adam could eat everything in sight except for the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17). God then got the bright idea that Adam needed a helper so he made all of the animals and Adam got to name them but none of them were good sexual partners for Adam (Genesis 18-20) . So God gave Adam a sleeping pill, took one of his ribs, and made a feminine human called Eve (Genesis 2:21:23) . Although Adam and Eve never had fathers and mothers God gave them reproductive rights so that their kids would leave them to get married with a woman (Genesis 2:24-25). God didn't make any more men from dust or women from Adam's ribs so all subsequent people were from their incestuous union.

Naturally, Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and got Adam to do the same (Genesis 3:1-21).

In Genesis 3:22 the tree of life is mentioned for the first time and it has the power to give the eater eternal life.

Read and think:

Genesis 3:22-24 (ERV) = "22 The Lord God said, “Look, the man has become like us—he knows about good and evil. And now the man might take the fruit from the tree of life. If the man eats that fruit, he will live forever.”

23 So the Lord God forced the man out of the Garden of Eden to work the ground he was made from. 24 God forced the man to leave the garden. Then he put Cherub angels and a sword of fire at the entrance to the garden to protect it. The sword flashed around and around, guarding the way to the tree of life."

So, if Eve and Adam had never ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil they would have remained stupid creatures and died none the wiser. But they ate and then knew as much as God did about good and evil, maybe that's why people will judge angels. So, while Adam & Eve did increase our knowledge they were unable give us eternal life.

So, remember that you are as smart as God about what is good and what is evil. Isn't that wonderful? Thank Eve for that, a variation of Minerva.

@Diotrephes
Dust: The Hebrew word aphar would later be used to describe clay, as in pottery. Comparing translations you also get "the ground," "the earth," "the soil," and "dust from the ground." What it means is that he formed man from elements of the earth.
https://biblehub.com/genesis/2-7.htm

There are two creation accounts; Genesis 1:1-24 and Genesis 2:5-4:26. the first is chronological and the second is topical in relation to mankind. So the animals were created first and Adam was created last.


Naturally? Eve didn't have to eat from the tree.


The trees, both of the knowledge of good and bad and the tree of life, didn't have any power beyond what a normal tree would be expected to have. They merely represented those things. The first represented God's sovereignty to man. A reminded that their creator would teach them, guide them and protect them in fulfilling their purpose as created beings. The second represented God's purpose of man living forever, though temporarily delayed, would nevertheless be fulfilled. Since Adam and Eve were immediately expelled from Eden this tree is different than the first in that it isn't a constant visual reminder, but something that he was aware of but that was, temporarily, removed from his grasp.

So, what all of this says is that man was created from the elements of the earth, was a part of the earth in the sense that he belonged there, his purpose was connected to it. He had been created perfect. Like a newborn baby in that he was innocent and having great potential to do either good or bad. If he listened to his creator he would do good, but if not he would do bad. Eve was deceived, but Adam, as steward of the earth, chose the decide for himself what was good and what was bad.


No, no, no. None the wiser of what? If they had never eaten from the tree they and their offspring would have lived forever as they were meant to do. They would have eventually reached their potential, which was the image, that is, having the qualities and characteristics of their creator. In effect, Jesus was what we could have been had Adam not sinned. Jesus could have failed. He could have sinned like Satan, Eve and Adam. Part of what Jesus did is to demonstrate that man did not have to sin.

The word knowledge is used in a variety of ways in language. Basically it means familiarity with facts acquired by personal experience, observation, or study, so often knowledge means to be intimately acquainted with something. For example the homosexuals in the account of Sodom wanted to "get to know" the angels visiting Lot. They wanted to have sex with them.

Prior to the sin of Satan, Eve and Adam there was no knowledge of anything bad because there was no bad. God didn't know what was bad because there was none for him to have had an intimate acquaintance with. God knew that only bad could come of man's rejection of his sovereignty. Just as a parent would know that they can't leave their children to take care of themselves because they haven't the experience to do so.

There's no magic here. It's all practical. All of the superstitious, religious nonsense came through interpretation much later. In order to see how nonsensical all of that can be just look at what we used to think the apple of the tree represented. Sex. God had created them to produce - by having sex.

The sort of religious nonsense I'm talking about is a huge part of why I find it very difficult to talk to "believers." They believe nonsense. Traditions of men, as Jesus called it.


Speaking of believers . . .

No. They knew as much as God did about good and evil before they sinned. Because God had told them. Notice that it says "like one of us, knowing good and evil." They all knew in the sense that they were aware of the possibilities, but it had never been tried. Now it has. And how is it working out compared to how it is allegedly supposed to have happened?

I go into this in greater detail in this thread: https://similarworlds.com/atheism/dislike-atheism/4329678-The-Meaning-of-the-Bible-as-I-see-it?sort=1

You bring up an interesting point about people judging angels. Since God and Jesus don't have an intimate acquaintance with sin, they haven't personally experienced sin, there will be people judging, both mortals and spirit beings because they do have that knowledge. In that respect we have a knowledge that God doesn't.


Okay. Yeah. That's sort of like what I was saying only I wouldn't say it like that. The way you put it would be like me saying someone who jumped off a cliff and broke their back was "smarter" than me.

Minerva? Variation of Eve? Minerva corresponds to the Etruscan Tinia, Uni, and Menrva. To the Romans she was the goddess of crafts, war, and wisdom. Time, from outside the gates of Eden, have provided us of many variations that intermingle in the telling.

@AkioTsukino Good attempt to spin it but it's gong nowhere.

In Genesis chapter 2:18-20 it plainly says that Adam was all alone. There were no women or animals. God then realized he had screwed up so he created the animals and birds but they all failed at being a helper comparable to Adam. So, God tried a new trick and took one of Adam's ribs and made a grown woman out of it to romp with Adam. Buzzards and rhinos aren't good sex partners and they aren't good conversationalists.

Why are you discounting the powers of the trees when they are an integral part of the fairy tale? If you don't believe in them why do you believe corpses pop out of their graves and go visit their buddies in town? Why do you believe in eternal life, heaven and hell, angels and demons, spirits and ghosts?

Adam and Eve were dumber than rocks before they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and then they knew as much as God does about good and evil.

If God hadn't been so incompetent he could have made all animals, and humans, with the same characteristics as flies. Once they change from being maggots and turn into flying insects they are totally independent of each other, They are not like bees and wasps and ants. They live their lives totally independent of each other. Isn't that a better model for life forms?

The sin of Sodom was inhospitality to strangers, it wasn't homosexuality. And, according to the fairy tale, Sodom will be rebuilt to all of its former glory so be sure to buy some lots there as soon as it makes the news.

Speaking of Jesus, remember his ancestors were bastards and whores. The Bible is big on linking people with the sins of their ancestors, up to ten generations.
https://thebricktestament.com/the_law/racial%20tolerance/dt23_03a.html 5 pictures

According to the fairy tale, God created evil and he has a gang of evil angels to do his dirty work.

Isaiah 45:7 (LEB) = "I form light and I create darkness; I make peace and I create evil; I am Yahweh; I do all these things."

Psalm 78:49 (KJV) = "He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them."

@Torsten Do you think I should have been more specific? Perhaps I should specify not the end of Fimbulwinter. No Ragnarök immediately forthcoming.

@AkioTsukino specifics are nice

@Pinkstarburst No date. There isn't a set date. It could happen any time. Tonight or 1,000 years from now. I did mention that the end times began upon the birth of Cain. It's been a while.

@Kwek00 Environmentalists, politicians, scientists . . .

@Fukfacewillie
FukFace! Where the hell you been?!

I don't know what you're on about smelly footwear for, but, good to see you.

@AkioTsukino It’s code, baby, code.

@bijouxbroussard
I haven't seen you around. Kind of hard to territorial piss if you aren't in the territory, huh?

This is under atheism because atheism is the antithesis of theism. You thought it was a bumper sticker? A swinging bingo club? It's debate. On atheism and theism.

@AkioTsukino I blocked the religious groups to avoid religious dogma from appearing in my newsfeed. Atheists don’t generally post it. Easier to block you. Bye.

@bijouxbroussard
Oh no! I'm melting, I'm melting . . . .

@CopperCicada Yes... the same unwillingness to clearly and succinctly state a claim, and the same dishonest concealment behind purple prose.

I’m sure he impresses himself 😂

@CopperCicada What, are you 12? Make some sense.