The End Is Near

@Elessar Who said it wasn't going to be caused by man? Who else? That's the point.

@AkioTsukino They knew about global warming and the risks posed to the environment by the oil industry since 33 a.D. but they've decided to stay quiet about it until today 😪

@Elessar Global warming is nonsense and nothing to do with it. They knew about the end long before 33 CE. They knew the world would be destroyed when Adam sinned. The world will be destroyed, they said, but the earth would last forever. The world, they said, was founded upon the blood of Abel. The world began upon the birth of Cain. The end began at that time. The end times began, as I said, at that time.

@AkioTsukino In case you missed it, Adam was doomed from the start. He was never going to live forever.

@AkioTsukino Yeah, sure

@Diotrephes [quote]In case you missed it, Adam was doomed from the start. He was never going to live forever.[/quote]

Explain the logic underlying that conclusion, please?

@AkioTsukino It's very easy to see when you read the story. Adam was created from dust (Genesis 2:7), his purpose was to till the ground (Genesis 2:5). The Garden of Eden was created (Genesis 2:8). Adam could eat everything in sight except for the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17). God then got the bright idea that Adam needed a helper so he made all of the animals and Adam got to name them but none of them were good sexual partners for Adam (Genesis 18-20) . So God gave Adam a sleeping pill, took one of his ribs, and made a feminine human called Eve (Genesis 2:21:23) . Although Adam and Eve never had fathers and mothers God gave them reproductive rights so that their kids would leave them to get married with a woman (Genesis 2:24-25). God didn't make any more men from dust or women from Adam's ribs so all subsequent people were from their incestuous union.

Naturally, Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and got Adam to do the same (Genesis 3:1-21).

In Genesis 3:22 the tree of life is mentioned for the first time and it has the power to give the eater eternal life.

Read and think:

Genesis 3:22-24 (ERV) = "22 The Lord God said, “Look, the man has become like us—he knows about good and evil. [b][i]And now the man might take the fruit from the tree of life. If the man eats that fruit, he will live forever.[/i][/b]”

23 So the Lord God forced the man out of the Garden of Eden to work the ground he was made from. 24 God forced the man to leave the garden. Then he put Cherub angels and a sword of fire at the entrance to the garden to protect it. The sword flashed around and around, guarding the way to the tree of life."

So, if Eve and Adam had never ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil they would have remained stupid creatures and died none the wiser. But they ate and then knew as much as God did about good and evil, maybe that's why people will judge angels. So, while Adam & Eve did increase our knowledge they were unable give us eternal life.

So, remember that you are as smart as God about what is good and what is evil. Isn't that wonderful? Thank Eve for that, a variation of Minerva.

@Diotrephes [quote]It's very easy to see when you read the story. Adam was created from dust (Genesis 2:7), his purpose was to till the ground (Genesis 2:5). The Garden of Eden was created (Genesis 2:8). Adam could eat everything in sight except for the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17). God then got the bright idea that Adam needed a helper so he made all of the animals[/quote]

Dust: The Hebrew word aphar would later be used to describe clay, as in pottery. Comparing translations you also get "the ground," "the earth," "the soil," and "dust from the ground." What it means is that he formed man from elements of the earth.
https://biblehub.com/genesis/2-7.htm

There are two creation accounts; Genesis 1:1-24 and Genesis 2:5-4:26. the first is chronological and the second is topical in relation to mankind. So the animals were created first and Adam was created last.

[quote]Naturally, Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and got Adam to do the same (Genesis 3:1-21).[/quote]

Naturally? Eve didn't have to eat from the tree.

[quote]In Genesis 3:22 the tree of life is mentioned for the first time and it has the power to give the eater eternal life.[/quote]

The trees, both of the knowledge of good and bad and the tree of life, didn't have any power beyond what a normal tree would be expected to have. They merely represented those things. The first represented God's sovereignty to man. A reminded that their creator would teach them, guide them and protect them in fulfilling their purpose as created beings. The second represented God's purpose of man living forever, though temporarily delayed, would nevertheless be fulfilled. Since Adam and Eve were immediately expelled from Eden this tree is different than the first in that it isn't a constant visual reminder, but something that he was aware of but that was, temporarily, removed from his grasp.

So, what all of this says is that man was created from the elements of the earth, was a part of the earth in the sense that he belonged there, his purpose was connected to it. He had been created perfect. Like a newborn baby in that he was innocent and having great potential to do either good or bad. If he listened to his creator he would do good, but if not he would do bad. Eve was deceived, but Adam, as steward of the earth, chose the decide for himself what was good and what was bad.

[quote]So, if Eve and Adam had never ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil they would have remained stupid creatures and died none the wiser.[/quote]

No, no, no. None the wiser of what? If they had never eaten from the tree they and their offspring would have lived forever as they were meant to do. They would have eventually reached their potential, which was the image, that is, having the qualities and characteristics of their creator. In effect, Jesus was what we could have been had Adam not sinned. Jesus could have failed. He could have sinned like Satan, Eve and Adam. Part of what Jesus did is to demonstrate that man [b]did not[/b] have to sin.

The word knowledge is used in a variety of ways in language. Basically it means familiarity with facts acquired by personal experience, observation, or study, so often knowledge means to be intimately acquainted with something. For example the homosexuals in the account of Sodom wanted to "get to know" the angels visiting Lot. They wanted to have sex with them.

Prior to the sin of Satan, Eve and Adam there was no knowledge of anything bad because there was no bad. God didn't know what was bad because there was none for him to have had an intimate acquaintance with. God knew that only bad could come of man's rejection of his sovereignty. Just as a parent would know that they can't leave their children to take care of themselves because they haven't the experience to do so.

There's no magic here. It's all practical. All of the superstitious, religious nonsense came through interpretation much later. In order to see how nonsensical all of that can be just look at what we used to think the apple of the tree represented. Sex. God had created them to produce - by having sex.

The sort of religious nonsense I'm talking about is a huge part of why I find it very difficult to talk to "believers." They believe nonsense. Traditions of men, as Jesus called it.

[quote]But they ate and then knew as much as God did about good and evil, maybe that's why people will judge angels. So, while Adam & Eve did increase our knowledge they were unable give us eternal life.[/quote]

Speaking of believers . . .

No. They knew as much as God did about good and evil before they sinned. Because God had told them. Notice that it says "like one of us, knowing good and evil." They all knew in the sense that they were aware of the possibilities, but it had never been tried. Now it has. And how is it working out compared to how it is allegedly supposed to have happened?

I go into this in greater detail in this thread: https://similarworlds.com/atheism/dislike-atheism/4329678-The-Meaning-of-the-Bible-as-I-see-it?sort=1

You bring up an interesting point about people judging angels. Since God and Jesus don't have an intimate acquaintance with sin, they haven't personally experienced sin, there will be people judging, both mortals and spirit beings because they do have that knowledge. In that respect we have a knowledge that God doesn't.

[quote]So, remember that you are as smart as God about what is good and what is evil. Isn't that wonderful? Thank Eve for that, a variation of Minerva.[/quote]

Okay. Yeah. That's sort of like what I was saying only I wouldn't say it like that. The way you put it would be like me saying someone who jumped off a cliff and broke their back was "smarter" than me.

Minerva? Variation of Eve? Minerva corresponds to the Etruscan Tinia, Uni, and Menrva. To the Romans she was the goddess of crafts, war, and wisdom. Time, from outside the gates of Eden, have provided us of many variations that intermingle in the telling.

@AkioTsukino Good attempt to spin it but it's gong nowhere.

In Genesis chapter 2:18-20 it plainly says that Adam was all alone. There were no women or animals. God then realized he had screwed up so he created the animals and birds but they all failed at being a helper comparable to Adam. So, God tried a new trick and took one of Adam's ribs and made a grown woman out of it to romp with Adam. Buzzards and rhinos aren't good sex partners and they aren't good conversationalists.

Why are you discounting the powers of the trees when they are an integral part of the fairy tale? If you don't believe in them why do you believe corpses pop out of their graves and go visit their buddies in town? Why do you believe in eternal life, heaven and hell, angels and demons, spirits and ghosts?

Adam and Eve were dumber than rocks before they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and then they knew as much as God does about good and evil.

If God hadn't been so incompetent he could have made all animals, and humans, with the same characteristics as flies. Once they change from being maggots and turn into flying insects they are totally independent of each other, They are not like bees and wasps and ants. They live their lives totally independent of each other. Isn't that a better model for life forms?

The sin of Sodom was inhospitality to strangers, it wasn't homosexuality. And, according to the fairy tale, Sodom will be rebuilt to all of its former glory so be sure to buy some lots there as soon as it makes the news.

Speaking of Jesus, remember his ancestors were bastards and whores. The Bible is big on linking people with the sins of their ancestors, up to ten generations.
https://thebricktestament.com/the_law/racial%20tolerance/dt23_03a.html 5 pictures

According to the fairy tale, God created evil and he has a gang of evil angels to do his dirty work.

Isaiah 45:7 (LEB) = "I form light and I create darkness; I make peace and I create evil; I am Yahweh; I do all these things."

Psalm 78:49 (KJV) = "He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them."