The End Is Near

@DocSavage Yes! Actually you've inadvertently stumbled on a valid question. Again. According to the Bible it has happened before. The flood.

@AkioTsukino
But why, would anyone believe what the Bible says ?

@DocSavage The same reason they would believe what anything says.

@AkioTsukino
So, gullibility or self-interest, then?

or evidence, perhaps? Yes, evidence sounds good. Let’s get some of that...

@newjaninev2 You atheists like that word, don't you. If you ever come across any worth keeping let me know, huh? But I mean the real stuff, not the stuff you marked as evidence with a crayon.

@AkioTsukino No problem... evidence for what?

@AkioTsukino Sorry, genius, but evidence is what you need when you make a positive claim of a beardy guy in the sky creating everything in an instant.

@LordShadowfire No. First of all I never made that claim, and if I did, I wouldn't need evidence for faith based claim. If you make the claim against a faith based claim which you don't even have the semblance of being conversant of, then maybe you need evidence to convince yourself that you have the intellectual capacity of, let's say Winnie the Pooh. But certainly not because your evidence will do anything that even you would be surprised at.

My advice is don't go into a debate or discussion without the evidence needed to support your position, especially if you are myopic enough to demand it from your opponent.

@AkioTsukino What fucking evidence would you want that God doesn't exist? A bunch of photographs of nothing? There's nothing. There's nobody. How do you take a picture of nobody?

(Keep in mind, on a personal note, I do believe he exists, but that he was created by humans accidentally as an egregore, an energy being created from the faith of a group of people. However, as I can't prove he exists at all, I always give the caveat that that's my opinion.)

@LordShadowfire Oh! Now I see. Carry on then.

@AkioTsukino
Do you even have a fucking clue as to what you are talking about ?
You say the end is near. How do you come to that conclusion ? You quote the Bible as a reference, but imply the religion based on it is shit. You bring up the flood. Of which there is no evidence to imply that it actually happen, and abundant evidence to show that it could not have happen.
You don’t seem to care much for science or physical proof that disproves faith based claims.
You keep posting threads that make no sense what so ever.

@LordShadowfire That is an interesting point. You believe that God exists. But whose delusion do you base that belief on? Is it some unknown person's delusion from the distant past and you have adopted the version of his God or did you develop your own version of God and give him the attributes that you want him to have?

What makes the words and thoughts of some unknown person from the distant past more credible than your reality in the present time? Don't you consider yourself to be more intelligent than some unknown story-teller from the distant past who had delusions about talking to some kind of God entity?

@Diotrephes I don't think you quite understand what I said. God is a being created by his worshipers. An egregore. And I believe I also stated that this is my opinion, as I can't prove it.

@DocSavage
Well, I try. I fuck it up all the time. The same as anyone else, I'm not special in any way. It's all opinion. A gathering of data, which includes misinformation, disinformation. All the rage these days it seems. I'm just like you or anyone else. Trying to sort it out. I tend to fuck the presentation up much more than the sentiment behind it. I'm in a hurry. It doesn't come out right.



See? I fuck things up all the time. In hindsight, my flippant satirical click bait wasn't necessarily the best choice. To me, near is a relative term. To someone immortal, having existed forever, or spirit creatures having existed probably for billions of years, the approximate existence of man according to the Bible, that is 6,000 years, is to them like a weekend to us. Like in dog years to us. Near is in God years.

Sorry. There I go again. It's too tempting. Atheist are so hysterically predictive. That trigger is just soooo tempting.

I did point out that the end times began when Adam and Eve's first child was born.


Did I? I mean, in this thread? See, I just respond to notifications. But, yeah, that's true. I'm always on about that. The religions based upon the Bible are shit. That isn't even controversial. It isn't even contrary to the Bible. The chosen people rejected God. He dissolved their covenant. The religious leaders who awaited thousands of years for a messiah nailed him to a tree when he got here because they wanted a military leader. Christians are the same. Paul foretold that they would prefer myth and fables over truth. And they have.

You shouldn't sweep truth under the rug. When you search for truth you have to accept it. You shouldn't change it to suit your whim. When I say people are idiots, which I often do, I'm not excluding myself. We are idiots.


[Heavy sigh] I don't want to talk about science right now. Please don't make this about science.


There it is.

So?


Look. I don't see this as relevant. There are nearly 8 billion people in the world. There are nearly 8 billion beliefs. If you want to make them all believe exactly what you believe, and you think that will usher in some enlightened utopian paradigm - if they could all just think like you - then you are going to be a very unhappy person.

It really seems myopic to me to think that the possession of "evidence" settles arguments. Evidence is like coins. There are two sides to every one and they can be stolen, bought, sold and traded. We debate these things and to outsiders who stumble into our arena we look really stupid and petty. And we are. Part of the reason for that is we are all stumbling around in the dark and the other part, probably the more obvious part, is that we have trouble accepting that not everyone sees the "evidence" the way we see it.

For the sake of the argument I do, at times, tolerate that egotistical monstrosity that is undoubtedly a part of me, but, man, I tell you . . . I can walk away from it like turning on a dime.

You want to talk about the flood? Start a thread, but I can't promise you anything.

And I like science. I love to learn. What I don't like is to be preached to. I want to learn. I know. Believers don't learn. Well, this one does.

On my website I use science, a failed preacher of a mega church, an atheist and androids (note the avatar) in an illustration of how science and technology has been suppressed by conflicts of interest and how it could solve not all, but many of mankind's problems.

https://semmelweisreflex.com/pathway/chapter1.php

So I don't have anything against science. At least not any more than I do religion. They are both endeavors of mankind that have been corrupted and always will be as long as we are living in a sinful environment. I think that when Jehovah God destroys the world - not the planet, just the world - science will flourish like it never has before. And that's great. I hope I get to see it.

@LordShadowfire
Well, I don't know, it would be easily proved. You just have to look at the history of religion. In 332 BCE Alexander the Great was conquering the world. His impact reverberates to this day in our modern occidental cultures. The influence of Greek philosophy upon Jewish thinking prior to Christ is pretty well documented. The same with Constantine the Great's influence on apostate Christianity after 325 CE.

I open my website with the term Deus ex machina [Latin] God from the machine. Used as a theatrical or literary device which solves difficulties in the plot. Christopher Hitchens said JK Rowling used deus ex machina quite a lot in writing Harry Potter, which, of course, would be expected. Just make magic do it.

People turn on God and create their own version. Sure. Then that becomes the tradition and people think they're getting Jehovah but they're getting some watered down nonsensical tradition. Myth. Fable.

@AkioTsukino Sorry. The history of people believing stuff doesn't necessarily prove that stuff is the way you think. Folks in ancient Egypt believed in a system of goddesses and gods with animal heads. Do you? Can you prove they don't exist?
Again, we're back to the problematic fact that neither you nor anyone else can prove he exists as creator.

@AkioTsukino
That begs the question. You need to first establish the existence of gods before concluding that people create versions of them

@newjaninev2
No I don't. I don't even have to establish that people create their own gods because like I said, it has already been established.

@AkioTsukino "You need to first establish the existence of gods"


because you say so? OK...


because you say so? OK...

@AkioTsukino
According to you, anything and anyone can be elevated to the term god at anytime. Including cow patties. Maybe you should take a moment to establish what the nature of the god you are referring to first.

@DocSavage No, Doc, what you need to do is prove me wrong. And you can't. Anything and anyone can be a God.

@AkioTsukino
Wrong again chuckles. You keep bouncing up and down, and side to side.you refuse to stick to any one position. So any discussion with you is pointless. As I said before, context it the issue. You’re distorting it to support a meaningless argument of pure gibberish.
I suppose now, you’ll come up with a half a dozen definitions for
“Gibberish”

@DocSavage Blah, blah, blah . . . show me.

Chuckles. I like that. It's a new one!

@AkioTsukino
Show you what exactly. You still haven’t made it clear WTF you’re talking about.
Despite your claims, you haven’t actually said anything that makes sense.

@DocSavage I made the claim that a god can be anything or anyone. I gave the evidence. Show me where I'm wrong. Not just that you think it's gibberish. Show me that a god can't be anything or anyone. Where is the evidence?

Dictionary Definitions from Oxford Languages

God
/ɡäd/

noun
noun: God; noun: god; plural noun: gods; plural noun: the gods
1.
(in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
2.
(in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.
"a moon god"
Similar:
deity
goddess
divine being
celestial being
supreme being
divinity
immortal
creator
demiurge
godhead
daemon
numen
avatar
an image, idol, animal, or other object worshiped as divine or symbolizing a god.
"wooden gods from the Congo"
Similar:
idol
graven image
icon
golden calf
totem
talisman
fetish
mascot
juju
used as a conventional personification of fate.
"he dialed the number and, the gods relenting, got through at once"
3.
an adored, admired, or influential person.
"he has little time for the fashion victims for whom he is a god"
a thing accorded the supreme importance appropriate to a god.
"don't make money your god"
4.
INFORMAL
the gallery in a theater.
"they sat in the gods"