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Women have all the control when it comes to becoming a parent. Should men have the right to opt out of parental responsibility?

People should maintain control over the child as long as it is in their body. Unfortunately for men, that control ends as soon as their sperm exits their penis. Exerting legal control after that would be like me donating blood, then demanding that the recipient vote the way I tell him to.

Once the child is born (or a little earlier), the woman also loses control and the state's authority begins.

This question is usually posed by MRAs or MGTOWs when they say that since a woman can avoid paying child support by having an abortion, the father should be able to have a "paper abortion" by giving up all interest in the child. But this would give him legal rights the woman doesn't have. In practice, both genders are treated the same. If the father is the custodial parent, the mother pays child support. Allowing people to evade this would place an extra burden on the state, as some benefits, such as section 8 housing, are based on the recipient's income. As a taxpayer, I don't think I should have to subsidize some guy who wants to dip his wick with no consequences.

One solution would be to have both parties sign a contract before having sex, in which they both agree to not demand child support if the other person has custody of the child. However, it's possible that a guardian ad litem could sue on the child's behalf even if the custodial parent didn't.

So to avoid this, women should be allowed to have abortions, and men need to keep their pants zipped.
@LeopoldBloom

[quote]But this would give him legal rights the woman doesn't have.
[/quote]
Good point
BlueVeins · 22-25
I don't see how that can be done short of

a) denying a woman her right to her body or
b) canceling child support payments

I respect your intelligence enough to assume you don't support option A. Option B is shitty because child support payments are an obligation to the child, not the remaining parent. Imagine being a kid who was born of a failed relationship and then just not having the resources you need because your mom didn't feel like putting you up for adoption (not that that option's perfect) and your dad didn't wanna put his money up.

It isn't fair to the man, but there's really no fair way to manage this situation so I say we just put the unfair financial burden on the one who's next most able to handle it.
SatanBurger · 36-40, F
@BlueVeins Also some women only have children for money, some families only adopt children because there's incentives also. Of course you can't prove this but it does happen, I don't know a whole lot of women but I've known at least 3 in my adult living I've met that have publicly made it known they have kids for cash.
spjennifer · 56-60, T
@SatanBurger If it's proven through a paternity test that the child isn't his and he hasn't legally adopted the child then no, he shouldn't be held responsible, the birth Father should. One of the States I lived in, the woman got a certain amount of welfare for 2 kids and it almost doubled for having 3 so some women did exactly that and no, that isn't fair to either the Father or the taxpayers and that's the fault of the lawmakers, not the children...
SatanBurger · 36-40, F
@spjennifer Agreed.
spjennifer · 56-60, T
Men have done this for far too long, a child is the offspring of both of them and both of them bear the responsibility of bringing it up and providing for the child. Neither parent should be permitted from abdicating their responsibilities. If you don't want to get pregnant or for your partner to get pregnant then either abstain or use some form of contraception.
Adaydreambeliever · 56-60, F
@spjennifer just to add no form of contraception is 100% effective.
@spjennifer listen to this ^^^^ everyone should have responsibilities esp after having a kid
spjennifer · 56-60, T
@Adaydreambeliever Totally agree, if you don't want to have a child then keep it in your pants, if the woman ends up getting pregnant then they bear equal responsibility of raising the child and providing for it!
Adaydreambeliever · 56-60, F
Well.. a) women do not have all the control, they might have been raped, have an abusive partner they don't want to have kids with, they may not want kids but be in a relationship where the pregnancy happened despite precautions (the contraceptive pill isn't 100% effective and condoms definitely aren't!), they may have been pressured into getting pregnant.. coerced... a million and one reasons..

And b) as to dads.. well many of them can and DO opt out - they just up and leave.. women can up and leave too but mostly they don't.. and it's much harder for them to do so

However, at the end of the day, if two people make a baby planned or not, then technically both have a lifelong obligation.. In reality that doesn't always transpire
@Adaydreambeliever

Well i guess that is a broad generalization. I was thinking about the legal right of an abortion in most places in developed countries.
External pressure from family or partners notwithstanding.

I know men [i]can[/i] leave but should it be the same legal thing as an abortion?
@Adaydreambeliever I will not let them get away with believing I want children even if it cost me the lay in the first place.

Better to just not get laid than be stuck with a lifetime of obligation for it and to someone I didnt choose the way I did her.

the act has its appeals but is mostly for emotional bonding, I do not want kids and Im sick to death of people acting as though sex is either for pleasure and sinful and wrong for it or for childbirth and a virtue.

Sometimes its for NEITHER and still a virtue.

her orgasm releases Oxytocin which is what I WANT.

Fuck societys little attempt to trap me into a box on this one.
Adaydreambeliever · 56-60, F
@Pikachu I think the problem is... that we are in danger here for forgetting that abortion is not a simple or easy answer! It IS a medical procedure and there ARE risks, including sterility as in not being able to have kids later if one chooses.. We need to remember when talking about abortion it's not an easy option either physically OR mentally.. it leaves massive and sometimes unhealable scars - mentally and physically!

And as you rightly said.. we must NOT discount the many pressures on women not to have an abortion, from the man, their peers, their religion, their community, their finances, their own belief, and of course their family... sometimes effectively there is no real choice..
Carazaa · F
Good question!

Men and women are equally responsible for everything they do and say, including sex, childbirth, raising kids, under God and under the law in most Judeo/Christian based countries. But some prefer to not take responsibility for their actions (nothing new about that so pick your mate carefully I say.) And some couples agree to just have a donor with limited rights.

But if the birthfather can be proven, then a child support order can be gained. (usually both incomes divided by half is given to the custodial parent monthly for support.) And if they refuse to pay a letter to the child support agency in that county is all that is needed most often for the arrearages to be ordered. Then a garnishment of wages, taxes, social security and retirement money is garnished including interest, until it's all paid. In California a professional board license can be suspended from a mate who has an order and is not paying.
@Carazaa

Nah, you insulted me in the course of trying to refute my arguments, not because i had insulted you.
You apologize a lot...and then you turn around and talk shit again whenever you get agitated.
I'm over it.
Carazaa · F
@Pikachu You do the same dear, or worse! The difference is that you don't apologize! But I forgive you anyway!
@Carazaa

Well aren't you just so [i]gracious[/i].
Don't care.
There's still a question sitting in our messages. Feel free to answer it and then maybe we'll talk about apologies
Azrael2 · 22-25, T
@spjennifer A "paper abortion" would also allow women to abandon their families, leaving the father with the kid while not having to pay child support.

I don't think society should facilitate this. Abortion and adoption, however, are completely different.
spjennifer · 56-60, T
@LeopoldBloom Agreed, [u]neither[/u] parent should have the right to abandon a child they created together. There are certain cases such as artificial insemination where the Father is perhaps unknown where he shouldn't be obligated but those are a lot more rare cases and very few and far between.
@spjennifer I have heard of lesbian couples, where one of them will use a sperm donor who agrees to not assert his rights as a parent, and of course not being responsible for child support is part of that. But that's very different from some MGTOW who wants to dip his wick with no consequences.
All the control? Unless a woman rapes you and steals your sperm you have the control to not have unprotected sex with her. No sperm, no baby.
bugeye · 26-30, F
i think every couple need to have this discussion. do they want kids. if so when do they want kids. if you're in synch with your partner and know where they stand on the matter and make a joint decision it's all the better.

while i think guys should help raise there kids, accidental or not no it shouldn't be forced on them. some people use there kids like a meal ticket and i think that's horrible.
@bugeye

So wouldn't a system where child support is made to be within the means of the absent parent be perfectly reasonable?

[quote]that doesn't seem fair to me.[/quote]

It's not. And it never can be in a situation where only one person can become pregnant.
bugeye · 26-30, F
@Pikachu maybe it's not 100% fair but it shouldn't be so one sided either. one unintended pregnancy and a guy becomes a meal ticket for 18 years without a say in it after conception.
@bugeye

Maybe!
SatanBurger · 36-40, F
Yes but only under certain circumstance, the law should be very strict because after all, children are involved.

There's plenty of men who trick women into getting pregnant and vice versa. There was a study on college rapists that found nearly all of them use coercion to get what they want. So while I think your premise is correct, that the courts most likely favor the woman, I don't think they should get to be out of parental responsibility because there's too many factors for why a relationship wouldn't work.

I would hate for a woman to be left with a kid if the male did something on purpose to make it be that way and then have the courts basically give low life's what they want.

I do however, think there's a bias and there needs to be [b]better protections[/b] for men overall.

Like if something happened that wasn't the man's fault, then it should be considered that he can default on child support payments if it's apparent that he himself got tricked, was in an abusive relationship or felt that he shouldn't have to have parental responsibility because of certain things that happened (maybe there's a case that the child isn't his etc.)

I guess I could see the above as to how a man would want out of parental responsibilities and we should listen to that but I think that decision shouldn't be taken lightly. A dead beat shouldn't be able to shirk out of responsibilities though while I could see some cases for it.
Viper · M
They already do, it's called being dead beat dad...

Men already run the responsibilities.
Muthafukajones · 46-50, M
I think that if a man is willing to irrevocable give up parental rights he should absolutely have the right to be relived of responsibility for children especially if he is not married to the woman.
Muthafukajones · 46-50, M
@Carazaa I think it’s ok to walk away from a woman you don’t want to share a child or a life with especially if she wants to have a child you don’t want anything to do with.
Carazaa · F
@Muthafukajones It is your child, whether you like the woman or not, you are the Father. The child needs food, and love from his Dad. Under the present laws in most countries I think it is responsibility of both parents, regardless of the relationship with the mother. But under God, [b]you[/b] are 100% responsible to feed your child until grown, and emotionally nurture and be a father for the child for his entire life. God makes it clear that it is the [i]Fathers[/i] job to take care of his household, and not let anyone go hungry. So you have to take that up with God.
Carazaa · F
@Muthafukajones You can think whatever you want to think, but here is what God thinks of such a person [b]"Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith, and is worse than an unbeliever." 1 Tim 5:8[/b]
Elessar · 26-30, M
Vasectomy and problem solved.
Lol what kind of question is this? If you want to opt out of the responsibilities of taking care of a child then don’t have sex in the first place? I don’t know what you have in mind but what a backwards thinking
@Loomingtrees

It's just a question kind of question✌️
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@Blueberries A lot of women abandon their kids, too.
LoveTriumphsOverHate · 36-40, M
@LeopoldBloom They do so as often as men, or moreso if you consider abortions and adoptions.
@LoveTriumphsOverHate I wouldn't call abortion or adoption "abandoning" the children, since in the first case, the kid isn't around anymore, and in the second, the adoptive parents are taking care of it.

When I lived in rural Oregon around 20 years ago, I noticed there were a lot of single fathers, where the mother had abandoned the family. I'd never seen this before, usually it's the opposite situation.
pentacorn · F
that’s easily done with a condom, or abstinence.
@pentacorn

Yeah it seems reasonable that the child, once born should be provided for by both parents.
pentacorn · F
@Pikachu thankfully, the law agrees with your, and my, opinion
@Pikachu that goes without saying yet deadbeat men leave
Davemcdave · 46-50, M
Some so that's why there are so many children in single parent households.
Mrsbetweenfatandfit · 26-30, F
I think the one that loses is the child that comes into this situation. It makes sense if there’s a child that didn’t have a choice in being born should have financial & emotional care from the people who made them. But we know people have sex who have no business being parents. We also don’t want ladies using financial support from the father for themselves instead of the needs of the child. I personally am pro choice so in believing that a woman has a choice to make when pregnant then I certainly don’t want to force a man into a life decision. In a perfect world no pregnancy would be unplanned/ unwanted. It would be great if people signed paperwork prior to sex so they could acknowledge the possibility of pregnancy/ abortion/ child support/ abandonment. That’s a fantasy land though. The only difference I could see in the choice for an abortion versus a man choosing to be uninvolved totally is with the abortion there’s no child hungry, needing guidance etc but when there’s a person born there’s still things they need even if people don’t want to give it. After my blabbing I’m not intelligent enough to know the fair answer but I will observe to see if anyone has a better option than I can think of.
@Mrsbetweenfatandfit

[quote]The only difference I could see in the choice for an abortion versus a man choosing to be uninvolved totally is with the abortion there’s no child hungry, needing guidance etc but when there’s a person born there’s still things they need even if people don’t want to give it. [/quote]

That's kinda where i'm landing too.
It's not fair really...but life's not fair and there's no way it [i]can[/i] be fair in a scenario where only one person is capable of getting pregnant.
Mrsbetweenfatandfit · 26-30, F
@Adaydreambeliever true if they have no physical support then there would need to be something to help with that if financial responsibility is required
Mrsbetweenfatandfit · 26-30, F
@Pikachu yes somethings will just never line up evenly 🌻
WalksWith · 51-55, F
Maybe, if they do not want children, they should look to their own birth control...? It's always been women's responsibility to take care of it, maybe men should look into birth control for themselves.

If only...
spjennifer · 56-60, T
@WalksWith You are correct and this is the problem, "It's a Man's world" Women are just for cooking, cleaning and raising the babies. Keep it in your pants or take care of the babies you make!
LoveTriumphsOverHate · 36-40, M
Did God put this question on your heart?
@LoveTriumphsOverHate

lol i doubt it. But how would i know🤷‍♀️

 
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