Women have all the control when it comes to becoming a parent. Should men have the right to opt out of parental responsibility?

@Azrael2

Why?

@Pikachu ✨ equality ✨
Women shouldn't have to birth a child they don't want, men shouldn't have to pay for or support a child they didn't want either. Paper abortions should absolutely be a thing.

@Azrael2

But shouldn't men have to take responsibility for their actions? If they have a part in a new human shouldn't the be responsible for supporting it?

@Pikachu I'm pro-choice. I believe that people should have control over their own lives. If they don't want kids, they shouldn't have to pay to support them. If a man that has accidentally impregnated a woman has told her that he doesn't want kids, that should be it. The woman can either choose to keep it or get an abortion. If the woman still chooses to keep it, it's her responsibility to support it.

@Pikachu They totally should bear some of the responsibility of providing for the child.

@Azrael2

But wouldn't that effectively be coercion for a woman to abort who would otherwise keep the baby?
"You can have this baby but you'll be poor and struggling".

Why shouldn't a man have to accept responsibility for his actions?

@spjennifer

It seems like they should to me.

@Pikachu and coercing a man to pay child support isn't a bad thing? Tying a man down because you chose to keep a child he clearly stated he didn't want to have with you isn't a bad thing?

Because, if you're taking precautions, pregnancies are always accidental, it's a mistake not a deliberate action. A mistake shouldn't follow you for the rest of your life. That's why I support abortions. 🤷 My stance only applies if abortions are legal and accessible.

@Azrael2

[quote]and coercing a man to pay child support isn't a bad thing?[/quote]

It's not fair, i agree. But it can never be totally fair where only one person can get pregnant.
If you have sex then you accept the responsibility that it might result in a pregnancy and then why shouldn't a resulting child have your support to live a good life?

@Azrael2 But if the father is the custodial parent, then the mother pays child support. So both genders are treated the same.

Abortion has nothing to do with this because neither parent has to pay in that case since the child doesn't exist.

@Pikachu you do realize that this same argument is used to support for pro-forced birth stances? It all comes down to choices, a woman choosing to keep a child, knowing she can't support it shouldn't affect a man's choice to not have a child and not want to support one either. The woman can just as easily choose to have an abortion or give the child up for adoption, if she chooses to keep it, she takes the responsibility of supporting it. 🤷

@LeopoldBloom that's why I'm talking about paper abortions, not custodial rights/duties. You obviously can't and shouldn't be able to opt out after you've already had the child.

@Azrael2 Sorry but that's such a BS statement, if you don't want a child don't stick your dick in her, no contraceptive measure is 100% foolproof so if she accidentally becomes pregnant, that's all HER fault? Sure an abortion is one way of doing that but not every woman wants an abortion, doesn't remove his responsibility simply because she won't have one...

@Azrael2 So you're saying that either parent should have a legal option to abandon the kid and the other parent would have no way to collect child support? Meaning the taxpayer picks up the bill. Sorry, my taxes already go for a lot of destructive crap, I'm not going to add to it with something like that.

I absolutely despise the religious right; I think they're the worst people in America, but one thing they're good for, they will never allow "paper abortions."

@Azrael2

[quote]you do realize that this same argument is used to support for pro-forced birth stances?[/quote]

Absolutely the same. The difference being that there is no violation of bodily autonomy being discussed here.

And you're talking about coercion again.

@spjennifer why is it that y'all put such little agency on women and hyperagency on men? It should though, it's the same as a woman choosing to abort, the guy should have a say too..it's his life that'll be affected by a child too.

@Azrael2 dont have unprotected sex. Problem solved.

@LeopoldBloom lol I think they will, ever heard of MRAs? They're mostly right-wing and this is one of their hugely discussed talking points. Tax the rich 🤷

@Azrael2 With abortion, it's not like the man still has to pay child support. Neither parent pays in that case. It's like giving the kid up for adoption. They both walk away with no further involvement. What we're talking about is a situation where the kid is born and one parent wants to keep it, so the other parent has to pay child support. The respective genders don't matter in that case. A woman can't leave her kid with dad and not have to pay anything, at least not legally.

@LeopoldBloom ...and I'm saying that that should be a thing. You want the child? Keep it and take full responsibility. It's simple.

@Azrael2 I know, I've argued with a bunch of them about this. Total crybaby idiots. Men have historically controlled every aspect of society for thousands of years, but just let them pass a law saying a husband can't rape his wife and suddenly men are oppressed.

@Azrael2 How about this? Before having sex, the couple signs a contract stipulating to the above.

@LeopoldBloom seems fair enough lol

@LeopoldBloom although I don't think people will be smart and comfortable enough to do that 🤔

@Azrael2 Then they will have to live with the consequences and not expect a law to be passed to bail them out.