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Your feelings about this answer to why DEI doesn't work

"I get it, it comes up in my management and education degrees. Systems create cycles of executive function -and parameters within the habits, understandings etc to serve the premises of those executive functions- to replicate those same systems. Including ideological systems, which become compounded when those ideological systems are created to justify the closed systems of ignorance inherent to the limits of your cognitive systems."

Is it just me, or is this a word salad to obscure meaning. Or am I just dumb?

https://similarworlds.com/identity/5503514-Diversity-Equity-and-Inclusion-The-creation-of-anything-of
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Yeah it's just meant to obfuscate. lol. Slightly off topic, I'm not sure the people who seem to violently hate DEI know what it means.

Diversity is general a pretty good strategy for most things. A diverse investment profile brings steady returns. Diversity in diet ensures you get the nutrients you need. When you have a company, your employees are an investment and it makes sense that it would help make your company a success.

Equity just means to treat people fairly. Not sure what is bad there.

Inclusion is a great way to build a healthy community or culture. Like a rising tide sort of thing.
Therealsteve · 31-35, M
@JonLosAngeles66 "A diverse investment profile brings steady returns". No wonder big "corporations" are pro DEI.
@Therealsteve lol. I've found that doing the right thing is usually good for business!
Therealsteve · 31-35, M
@JonLosAngeles66 Exactly, same. It's what I find crazy about leftists. They say they want people to come together and create things for everyone - which is actually what businesses in a free population do. I see x people needing help in x way, I devote some of the assets of my business to help x in exactly the way I think they should be helped, and in a way directly proportionate to my ability. Thankfully in a free economy I can do that. And a... corporation (shock) is a collaboration that has successfully produced value to so many people so many times that it's expanded to a size that it can make transactions that impact entire countries. And I'm glad those making that impact are entities with a track record of enough positive transactions to get to that size and not some state enforced mess.

Incentivize building yourself up as an individual and using that strength to serve others in a way meaningful to each individual. Don't demonize individual success and don't have the state penalize their produce and constrain their path to being productive.

By the way, OP was quoting me, I have a management and teaching degree, I've ran schools across the world.
Ynotisay · M
I think what they're saying, in essence, is that "like finds like." And if feeds on itself.

What's interesting is the language that person used. It's an example of what they seem to be railing against.It's purposeful exclusion. Corporate speak is real. So is standing on the sideline academic speak.

So no. You're not dumb. You're just not part of the group. And that person made a point of highlighting that.
Ynotisay · M
@JimboSaturn I have a different take on the definition of unconscious bias. Not because of the root of the phrase but how it's extrapolated out to imply negative behavior. Which is why it's used.
JimboSaturn · 56-60, M
@Ynotisay Well yes. I believe bias implies a negative behaviour, hence the need to counteract. I see recognizing uncoucious bias is not guilt or microaggressions but just understanding. I try to be aware of my own unconsious biases.
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faery · F
Translated: I get it. Established systems create cycles that prevent change, especially when there is no personal incentive to change, and forward thinking is further hindered by natural instinct to protect personal advantage.

What's interesting is this answer could be used to defend either side of the argument, even though it works best as an argument in favor of DEI. In this case, it's a defensive non-answer to why DEI wouldn't work that uses far too many words, sometime quite redundantly. So, imo, it is intended to obfuscate the fact that they want to defend their position by using the expected counterargument to their own opinion.
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JimboSaturn · 56-60, M
@faery [media=https://youtu.be/9zN2ZGyPc7M]
faery · F
@JimboSaturn Exactly, lol. Total pseudo-intellectual
FreddieUK · 70-79, M
@Therealsteve I'd rather not go further in this exchange. @JimboSaturn is a friend who I respect and I have no reason to fall out with you. 🙂
JimboSaturn · 56-60, M
@Therealsteve Again deleted by its author doesn't mean I did it. Deleted was your own message. If I deleted it, it would say "deleted by the author of this post" I think.
FreddieUK · 70-79, M
@JimboSaturn Just to help out: I have found if someone has blocked me I will find their comments get "This message was deleted"
JimboSaturn · 56-60, M
@FreddieUK Right yes! So it was someone who blocked steve. Ya I LOATHE when people delete comments, I would never do that.
Sounds like pretentious bollocks to me.

DEI absolutely can work if applied correctly whilst maintaining a meritocracy. The idea should be that somebody shouldn't be excluded because of a protected characteristic, not that they should be hired because of it. The idea is also to do more to reach those with protected characteristics who may be or feel excluded from the talent pool due to the historical or stereotypical demographic of a given role or industry.
JimboSaturn · 56-60, M
@ostfuidctyvm I agree 100%. The idea that people are hired only because of a protected characteristic is in itself and unciousious bias.
dancingtongue · 80-89, M
It is a word salad to satisfy some academic standard somewhere, imho.

What it boils down to is, that without some critical thinking about unintended consequences you wind up with systemic discrimination. We have natural tendencies to duplicate ourselves without realizing that in the process we are excluding people for irrelevant reasons.

Of course those who don't believe there is such a thing as systemic discrimination because they grew up on the right side of the tracks are in denial, and most are fiercely fight to keep critical thinking out of our schools so everyone else can remain in denial as well.
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JimboSaturn · 56-60, M
@FreddieUK Also the preceding premises in the original post about the exclusivity of finding correct solutions, also added to my general confusion about the last paragraph.
Therealsteve · 31-35, M
@FreddieUK 1. "Executive functioning" is not a complex term.

" it's very hard work for someone not used to it - like me these days.". He took that message out of context from a long thread in which he was attempting to denigrate my intelligence, whilst he was pretty dim himself. He was constantly pretending I didn't answer his question whenever I gave a response, then told me to stop avoiding his question that he would slightly reword and demand I answer again.

And so I felt, with being called stupid, of ill intent, claims that he couldn't understand - over and over - I'd make it as technical in language as possible, so that there could be no room for denial. :)
Therealsteve · 31-35, M
@FreddieUK "Trying to get through to the meaning of this for someone outside the academic discipline is a real challenge."

It's also harder when this Jimbo also:

1. Doesn't want to try to understand a different view
2. Wants to portray himself as being smarter and therefore above the need to 'know'
3. Ascribes ill intent to me rather than addressing what I said
4. Ignores what I said
5. Slightly changes the goalposts every time he asks a question (plus 4.)
6. Derails it into a contest about whose smarter as he doesn't have an argument
7. Pretends to have certain qualifications and experience whilst not understanding the most basic concepts of the discipline.
8. Claims superior mastery over English whilst making major blunders and then backtracks saying mastery of language actually requires using "simple" words.
9. Claims that suddenly I'm making an "argument from authority fallacy" when his lies about qualifications don't hold up
10. But then goes right back to how he has x qualification and so just knows how things work

I could go on lol. Anything other than presenting an argument. It's to be expected, though. I find it interesting to see how the people who are first to shout "trust the experts/science, people who don't hold my views are uneducated and don't read", respond when presented with experts/science with a premise that goes against their emotion-based shallow presuppositions. They don't seem to be able to even articulate their own views, yet alone analyse and respond to a counter-argument.
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
DEI and capitalism are opposing concepts. It's why capitalism is so wrong.

Remove capitalism from the work place DEI will work just fine.

Humans are social. Please let humans be what they are. Not robots or aliens.
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@Therealsteve

https://similarworlds.com/self/note/list-of-my-enemies-on-sw/5500144-SW-No-one-is-my-enemy-on-here

𝓗𝓪𝓿𝓮 𝓪 𝓰𝓸𝓸𝓭 𝓭𝓪𝔂! 😊
Therealsteve · 31-35, M
@DeWayfarer So, describe "socialism".
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@Therealsteve
𝓗𝓪𝓿𝓮 𝓪 𝓰𝓸𝓸𝓭 𝓭𝓪𝔂! 😊
ArishMell · 70-79, M
Translated into English, it has no meaning, or not one of any significance.

The first two sentences show the Degree course teaches that:

1) A business exists to serve its management, not the management serving the business.


2) Ignorance is not only bliss but an advantage; success coming from being no cleverer than one should be as long as one knows all the Right Words and never uses plain language.


3) The more flowery and opaque the jargon, the better. The good manager knows no-one will ask him or her the meaning, if there is one, because the enquirer will fear being thought dim.

and,

4) The purpose of a management degree is not to teach running a trade or service, but how to seem Ever So Clever to mask Point 1) above.

(Reminds me a bit of that 1980s "mission statement" fad.)


Anyway, "systems" do not create themselves. It is Managers - people - who create the "systems".

...

While the third sentence (starting "Including ideological systems..") seems only to say, "Ideologues are ignorant and stupid".

I don't know if I still have it, but some forty or fifty years ago I collected a wonderful piece of industrial folk-humour that really showed up that sort of nonsense. It was a table of blocks of verbose clauses that could be assembled to form Very Impressive but totally meaningless "management-ese".
Therealsteve · 31-35, M
@ArishMell " The purpose of a management degree is not to teach running a trade or service, but how to seem Ever So Clever to mask"

That is one of the purposes of the degree. I'm the OP with the management and education degree. Some of my work involves teaching people about running organizations.
Therealsteve · 31-35, M
@ArishMell Also, you realise that a manager is a system, as well?
justbob · 61-69, M
Perhaps if it was translated into English that would help.

The reason DEI does not work is that people are put in positions they are not prepared for on the basis of their ethnicity or sex or social status. You can not put the best person in the position if it happens to be a white guy.

And everybody in the organization, including the DEI hire, knows that the DEI hire is not really up to the job.
ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
I wish I could remember the "Rob Petrie" quote from the old Dick Van Dyke show where Rob listens to some pompous prate on about art or something else "serious" and replies in kind with a closing line about "but is in reality meaningless" regarding the whole BS pomposity.
ninalanyon · 61-69, T
I'm not sure that it is:
word salad to obscure meaning.

I think it's just word salad. It's meant to look as though there is meaning.
JimboSaturn · 56-60, M
@Therealsteve Then re explain it then!
JimboSaturn · 56-60, M
@Therealsteve Then explain it then! Stop insulting and teach
Thinkerbell · 41-45, F
@JimboSaturn

You can't get blood out of a turnip. The point mentioned earlier that physicists can explain quantum mechanics or general relativity in layman's terms was very well taken. Your word-salad interlocutor is an abject phony.
I need a bong hit after reading that.
JimboSaturn · 56-60, M
@MayorOfCrushtown Can I join you?
@JimboSaturn of course !!!
Jackrules · 56-60
No wonder DEI doesn’t work.
It seems like DEI really stands for Division, Exclusion, and Inequality. 😮‍💨
justbob · 61-69, M
@Jackrules Also

Didn't

Earn

It
KentuckyFriedFloozy · 26-30, F
The person that said this has socializing issues I guarantee it.
No, you’re not dumb. And based upon results, the racism in this administration is their rush to assume that the mere presence of a person of color in a position of power is evidence of DEI programs in action. They don’t even bother to verify the person’s qualifications—they decide he/she wasn’t qualified to be there. 🤨
JimboSaturn · 56-60, M
@bijouxbroussard White people get it backwards. DEI doesn't hire people because they are a minority, it just makes sure that people don't get the job just because they are white.

Case in point my wife and I work in the same area, which is only about 40% WASP. Her work was 95% white men, while my work more fairly represented the demographich. My work had DEI, hers did not.
@JimboSaturn We already know that left to their own devices, most industries here would be "white only"— because that’s what they did. Right down to our military with segregated troops.
bookerdana · M
When you don't know much hit em with the Thesaurus

 
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