Your feelings about this answer to why DEI doesn't work

"I get it, it comes up in my management and education degrees. Systems create cycles of executive function -and parameters within the habits, understandings etc to serve the premises of those executive functions- to replicate those same systems. Including ideological systems, which become compounded when those ideological systems are created to justify the closed systems of ignorance inherent to the limits of your cognitive systems."

Is it just me, or is this a word salad to obscure meaning. Or am I just dumb?

https://similarworlds.com/identity/5503514-Diversity-Equity-and-Inclusion-The-creation-of-anything-of

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Ynotisay · M

I think what they're saying, in essence, is that "like finds like." And if feeds on itself.

What's interesting is the language that person used. It's an example of what they seem to be railing against.It's purposeful exclusion. Corporate speak is real. So is standing on the sideline academic speak.

So no. You're not dumb. You're just not part of the group. And that person made a point of highlighting that.

JimboSaturn · 56-60, M

@Ynotisay So is he talking about unconcious bias? Seems to me any explanation that can't be articulated outside of a certain group has no utility.

Therealsteve · 31-35, M

@Ynotisay I'm the person he's talking about. I have degrees in education, management, and clinical administration and was arguing for the merits of exclusion within certain contextual frameworks.

He was throwing "that's a word salad" and ignoring every answer I gave him, after he asked for one and then ascribing ill intent, as he couldn't understand the terminology but wanted to feel above me irrespective of that.

The specific context of that specific message was me explaining his closemindedness.

Thank you for your proper response to it, he should learn from you. And I'm not trying to be "pompous", he was the one calling me stupid as he had no argument and I was standing up for myself.

Ynotisay · M

@JimboSaturn I would say out of all the words and phrases associated with DEI (I did some work in that world for a bit) I'd say yes. I think unconscious bias is what they were getting at.

There's a laundry list of phrases that were introduced in to DEI when it started to gain momentum.

Unconscious bias was a big one because it implied guilt. "You're (insert 'ist' word here) but you just don't know it." That world is a TRIP. The intentions didn't line up with the execution.

Therealsteve · 31-35, M

@JimboSaturn "Seems to me any explanation that can't be articulated outside of a certain group has no utility.".

In other words, like with my original post - any argument, word, or idea you can't understand and doesn't clearly support your simple presuppositions (which seems to be a lot) is to be dismissed by yourself.

You're right, it does have no "utility" for you when it doesn't confirm the limited things you want to believe.

JimboSaturn · 56-60, M

@Ynotisay I think unconcious bias is not that harsh, it's not calling you a racist, its merely acknologing that everyone has biases.

JimboSaturn · 56-60, M

@Therealsteve No. Any idea that cannot be communicated without jargon in from a certain group has no utility. Even in fields like quantum mechanics, or physics, or chemistry, a reasonable attempt can be made to explain outside your group.

Therealsteve · 31-35, M

@JimboSaturn If that were the case, then my degree wouldn't be the legal requirement for management jobs in the country I reside in.

It's just not of utility to people without the ability to understand and apply it, such as yourself. Thanks for admitting such things aren't of utility to you.

JimboSaturn · 56-60, M

@Therealsteve You're welcome. What I don't like is that you post something to try to sound smart and if people don't agree with you , you talk about your education . It's a form of bullying.

Therealsteve · 31-35, M

@JimboSaturn The only person who brought up anyone's intelligence was you. I've said again and again "have an argument".

JimboSaturn · 56-60, M

@Therealsteve No, you have been bringing that up the whole time. If anyone doesn't understand your paragraph, they are uneducated.

Ynotisay · M

@Therealsteve I can't speak to your interactions with that person but I did know it was coming from a place of academia. Specific disciplines create specific language and I don't think it's about communicating effectively with anyone outside of that discipline.

In the case of DEI, the exclusionary language was introduced under the guise of striving for inclusion. DEI became DEIB (belonging) DEIA (accessibility) and JDEI (justice). Microaggressions, minority tax, intersectionality...the list goes on and on. It had little to do with the stated goal and it was presented under the assumption of guilt.

The worst thing to happen to DEI efforts were the DEI "professionals."

Therealsteve · 31-35, M

@Ynotisay It was certainly coming from a place of academia, yes, as from his very first response to me he was trying to denigrate my intelligence, whilst not being very bright himself. I also happen to be very imbedded into academia, across several interplaying disciplines.

I do also agree with a lot of your summary of that aspect of DEI.

Ynotisay · M

@JimboSaturn I have a different take on the definition of unconscious bias. Not because of the root of the phrase but how it's extrapolated out to imply negative behavior. Which is why it's used.

JimboSaturn · 56-60, M

@Ynotisay Well yes. I believe bias implies a negative behaviour, hence the need to counteract. I see recognizing uncoucious bias is not guilt or microaggressions but just understanding. I try to be aware of my own unconsious biases.

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