A very good question, that I've been thinking about. I think it is because Islam is still a relatively young religion, and therefore, is still very prominent amongst its followers, like Christianity once was.
So.. You find the followers still strictly adhering to each and every rule, that goes against a lot of the values of the Western Society, most and foremost, freedom, but also women rights, human rights in general and just freedom!
The concept of a club is very strong in Islam. A lot of Do's and don'ts or you'd be excluded from the club. Muslims take pride being part of this club, it gives them a sense of moral superiority and a feeling righteousness, so they make sure to not lose that membership by mingling in the Western World.
It doesn't stop at intellectual values, but also physical looks. Women look certain way because they dress differently. Even the men, were prescribed certain looks (long beard, short dress) but because men can do whatever they want and are not controlled like women, they don't adhere as much and you are less likely to see that consistency in the way they present themselves, unlike women, who would be covered one way or another. So you will find that distinction even in looks. Different way of dressing as a great impact creating differences, no matter how much we deny that.
Depends on the country the Muslims come from. Albanian Muslims all work in pizza joints and hate each other, so fight at work and go meet others to make friends. It's instant assimilation, faster than any group I've ever seen. Albanians are also thr most pro-American of Muslims, except the Kurds.
For every Muslim insisting on following Sharia Law as best they can while living in infidel America, you have one running a corner liqour store. There isn't a nationality of Islam that has failed to do this, but it seems to be a rule amongst Yemeni. I knew a Imam out in San Francisco who spent half his time traveling the bay area trying to get them to sell something, anything other than liqour. A few added a few small bags of potato chips. They intergrate pretty well with the black community (they like to sell individual cigarettes to them). White community less so. A yemeni family where I lived in West Virginia kept isolated, daughter in law refused to have male english tutors (me and a few other guys) but they were part of the community and accepted by us, but there was some worry they would open up a mosque (they kept teying to buy a greek orthodox church saying it looked like a mosque and it pissed the greeks off). In the end their teenage son/ grandson moved to Mexico with some migrants illegally. He had a greencard for the US, and the family owned a chain of gas stations and small groceries.
Alot of Muslims from India do IT work. Easy to spot, they wear cricket sports shirts and DON'T have a image of Krishna handing from their rearview mirror.
Big problem is first generation immigrants don't want their moo cow wives walking around so they will take a job like a live in hotel manager and will watch their wives 24/7. I've seen this alot. Women just grow fat and never leave, and stay covered indoors behind the feont desk as a kid crawls around behind them. Again, doesn't happen if they have a picture of Ganesha up. The Hindu women can go out and explore. Just Muslims get tied down with this.
If it is a college professional they blend in pretty well. If it is a Turk they calm their outrageous hairstyles down, and blend in pretty well. Alot get into Harley Davidson Motorcycles and the riding culture. They always try to look a cool guy, but America doesn't try as hard as they do in Turkey.
Not long ago Irish were not considered white enough Polish immigrants were a nuisance / not white enough North Italians didn’t consider south Italians to be Italians etc In fact throughout history and until recently , Europeans were 24/7 fighting among themselves so assimilation is a big world coming from a region that couldn’t assimilate with itself for all of history until recently and still not much with Ukraine/russia issue for example and the tides could change any moment. I always tell Europeans you should be more cautious of your neighbors based on history.
So this whole idea that Europe is this one homogeneous loving family can only come from someone who has zero idea about the chaotic history of Europe’s conquests division battles and civil wars. Also Not long ago you persecuted Jews and viewed them as a threat throughout history that literally Muslim empires were a safe haven for Jews from European Christian persecution (the irony) While you feared/traded / respected the Muslim empires When the scales of power and wealth changed , you found the next victim to bully and quickly rushed to worship the new strong heads. Or did you think bullying was limited to the corridors of high school ?
Anyways , many non Muslims including Hindus and Christians from poor countries go to work in Muslim lands like Malaysia Indonesia Qatar Dubai Oman Saudi etc I’m from Saudi Arabia. My country consists of almost 40% immigrants. My calculus teacher was a Catholic from the Philippines My regular plumber is a Hindu from India Some of my sister’s colleagues in the company she works at are non Muslim Americans A lot of westerners forget ur not the only countries people migrate to for a livelihood. The main reason people mirage is simply because of money. If they can get a citizenship that’s only a plus . They don’t give two shits about your culture / religion. It’s all money and economy.
As for your question about assimilation, The non Muslim Europeans didn’t assimilate when they migrated to New Zealand Australia America Palestine Etc
They went and crushed the indigenous communities displaced them and genocided them and forced their culture on these lands and people who were minding their business and didn’t go to Europe.
So it’s big coming from people who never assimilated but want other people to assimilate. Lol
You still don’t assimilate. Qatar for instance never interfered with foreign affairs but when it outlawed alcohol in the World Cup you Europeans started to criticize Qatar forcing ur values on them I never saw an Asian or an African outlet criticizing Qatar for that it was only the western outlets because entitled Europeans always think whatever they desire they must get. The irony tho outlawing alcohol in stadiums is something that some European countries do too . What happened to respect the laws of the country you go to ? Or it only applies to you !? lol
On a daily basis people with Christian upbringing do terrorists attacks / crime / shootings But their religion never comes up In fact there are many Christian majority nations out there with extremely high crime and doing far worse than many Muslim countries But when a Muslim does something It’s the shared blame of 2 billion people globally. The evilizing of Muslims is by design To support American / Israeli agenda in the Middle East. This is not a new phenomenon.
This is anti Spain / anti Catholic propaganda by Spain’s European rivals in the 1600s:
And Islam is not foreign to the “west”
The modern name Gibraltar is a derivation of the older name 'Jebel Tarik', meaning Tarik's Mountain.
An area in France called ramutelle comes from the Middle Ages named after Muslims It means “the mercy of Allah”
Islam was the religion of spain/iberia for almost 1000 years and many locals embraced islam During Muslim Spain (Andalucía ) It was the most successful European nation at its time. A jewel when it comes to architecture tolerance and scientific advancement. European countries like Albania Turkey etc are majority Muslim .
Islam is not any foreign to Europe than Christianity.
As for when it comes to immigration in Islamic law:
During the time of prophet Mohamed , there was huge pagan hatred towards Muslims and Muslims in Mecca used to get killed and tortured So by the order of prophet Mohammed a small group of Muslims migrated to Ethiopia After having heard their Christian king is just They arrived legally and met with the king and asked for permission to stay in Ethiopia And when the aggression towards Muslims ended back in Mecca, majority of them returned. So in Islam it’s not allowed to migrate to any land illegally. Also in Islam we have to keep our promised
17: 34
{. Honour your pledges: you will be questioned about your pledges.}
When a Muslim migrates to any land They make pledges Like I’ll abide by the rules I won’t do terrorist acts etc
So if a Muslim breaks his pledge that is actually forbidden in Islam and is a grave sin.
Islam is considered by its followers as a way of life, not just a way to worship God, and that way of life is very different in many respects to that of many other religions and cultures.
The Prophet Mohammed wrote two books to guide following the faith he developed: the Q'ran of course, and one, whose title I forget, which is essentially a guide to living as a Muslim.
Many Muslims do manage to live perfectly well in secular, nominally-Christian but largely-secular societies, but that depends a lot on how they are treated by those societies. Like any other section of society, if they are made to feel excluded or cornered they will tend to close ranks and look unfriendly, in return.
On the other hand many Muslims live their own lives very well among all we "non-believers", (i.e. of any other faith or none). On higher theological levels their leaders are sometimes friends with those of other faiths to the extent of formal, inter-faith co-operation.
@wildbill83 Among their more abrasive followers, no. Though it's hard to know how much of the bitterness in such situations is universal among Muslims, or is stirred up and kept boiling by "leaders" for their own, usually national-political, ends.
I think the schism was born in a theological dispute among Mohammed's own relatives!
@ArishMell while blind faith isn't limited to Islam, it appears to be the most prevalent in Islam. It's naive to think religious "leaders" are infallible and/or that their word somehow carries more weight than scripture. I don't think much of the pope/cardinals either, but at least they've moved past holy wars/crusades.
At least our forefathers had the sense to realize this and implement separation of church and state; not to encourage or discourage religious practice; but to eliminate "supreme authorities" within them that could exert control over government & vice versa
no person should ever hold both political and religious authority in any religion...
Into christian europe its usually fairly smooth transition. Into christian america it seems christianity somehow conflicts with islam and idk why it so often becomes hostile. Might it be because christianity is used to being the newest and so the more recent islam shakes things up too much for their liking?
@Moon3624 I didn't say that Muslim nations are corrupt.
And the time you speak of here
This is why the earlier you go in time You’ll find Muslims far more tolerant , advanced , stronger , united compared to the rest of the world during their time.
corresponds to the zenith of educated, rich Muslim culture during the medieval period in Europe.
Today, there is intolerance and backwardness in all fundamentalist areas of Islam, Christianity, etc. The Taliban not allowing women to becone educated--who cuts off one leg of their nation and hobbles in triumph?
@SomeMichGuy you judge a religion based on scripture evidence not person x or y actions Almost all of the Muslim world allow women to get educated. So choosing the abnormality to generalize is wrong.
Also the Taliban were mountanous tribal men Whom the USA funded and created to fight against The Soviet Union And they portrayed them as heroes in the New York Times Even tho at that time the USA knew 100% about their ideologies but didn’t care Their thoughts on women only became a problem after they ceased to be USA’s dog
@Moon3624 No, I'm looking at specific issues with specific instances, and I recognize issues with (and include) fundamentalist Christianity in this failure.
The zenith of Muslim scholarship is a well-known historic era, with advances in mathematics (hence al gebra), astronomy (look at star names), etc. The picking up if classical Western culture in the Eastern Mediterranean, translating it, and depositing it in Moorish archives in Spain--what an amazing story of how many classic works were preserved!
@BittersweetPotato Hindus have multiple gods, or versions of... Plus I think their culture is more attuned to a wide variety of belief systems... Islam is very strict and very tribal and still very rooted in 12th century belief system...
@SexyLesGirl13 How can I be anti Islam when I am a Muslim ? Also I also replied to the verses you mentioned and debunked them but you ignored my answer because you are a spam bot
Because their quran teaches them to fight non muslims untill all unbelievers around the world submit to islam and the only religion is islam.. So muslims cannot assimilate into western cultures.. Indeed they must engage in jihad violence to establish a global islamic state and force other cultures to adopt islamic law to the letter..
I find it incredible that a lot of western people don't understand this.. It's almost a wilful determination to be ignorant of what the quran and the accepted Hadiths of islam teach..
@Adstar “Because their quran teaches them to fight non muslims untill all unbelievers around the world submit to islam and the only religion is islam.”
3 of the 5 top biggest empires in in the world are Christian. Conquering and wars. But apparently that’s fine when you do it . Also Many wars were done in the name of God by Christians Including way too many genocides . Let’s also not forget how early Christians outlawed science and demonized it and many philosophers/ scientists were executed or imprisoned And it was only things like the Renaissance that changed things in Europe and later separation of religion and law.
The USA not long ago, You had slaves Women couldn’t get proper education or have her own bank account she couldn’t even vote And beating ur wife was allowed Are you telling me your Christian forefathers didn’t know Jesus well But secular west that threw the Bible in the trash and separated the law from the Bible Knows Jesus better ?
Btw the Bible is filled with verses of God ordering the killing of disbelievers and even genocide It’s easy to take things out of context to twist the narrative Every verse u mentioned form the Quran is taken out of context What a poor little jealous soul
Also it might be the role of women in society as such a noticable contrast but its not clear to me what the issue. 1200 years of human existence probably.
SW-User
You are asking it wrong. If I see water, I have abundance here, I can drink it freely. If I look at a leaf, I know it has life. There are more Muslims in this world than Western citizens, but often they are in countries lacking resources and less developed. So why Western culture has not assimilated them when there is more Muslim, why we need to see them as different? The whole idea of different ethnicity, creed, is poppycock when you speak from a rich nation.
@JohnnySpot From my observation it appears that Muslims do have the hardest time assimilating. If anyone disagrees, they are free to say they do not believe it is the case.
It makes no sense to talk about assimilation in a multicultural country built on immigration and a blend of various cultures instead of the original one/natives.
I am an ex-muslim and I still refuse to agree and assimilate completely. I adopt what works for me and reject/discard what doesn't. Following blindly the majority doesn't strike me as an intelligent option. I like some traditional things because they appeal to my personal sense of right and wrong.
Muslims do not have a unified culture too. They are very different and diverse.
Religion aside, it could be due to culture in general. Someone moving to the United States or Canada, from Europe or Australia will probably have an easier time of adapting as opposed to someone from the Middle East.
They don't. Muslim-Americans are more western than Evangelical-Americans, because they live in cities, where people tend to be more progressive. Material conditions matter more than religion.
@AthrillatheHunt Sure, because most of them are immigrants and don't speak English that well. It's the same with every immigrant group. Germans, Italians, the Irish, Greeks, they all did that. But Muslims who grow up in America are more American than most Evangelicals.
@Elessar I don't recognize any of those groups in the US except GOP, and athiests too are in the GOP, it's a political party, not a religion.
Atheists are hardest hit by the drug crisis. They are maladapted for western civilization. Maybe someday they will grow a ethical backbone and start efforts to sace themselves like religious groups make a effort. I've seen christians, muslims, and hare khrishnans do drug outreach programs with AA and NA affiliation. Nothing for Athiests. They get left out to die. Nobody is looking out for them.
@Moon3624 there's also Jewish Atheists, Jewish Christians and Jewish Muslims and Jewish Hindus and Jewish Buddhists, Jewish is not just a religion it's also an ethnic-regional group
Not a lot of religions have a lot of very specific directives about managing a society. Islam does, so a society that already has established standards are not likely to dovetail with Islam's
because they're not used to being a minority in majority Christian countries where that's what they clearly are. and they're rarely willing to accept that status. the whole concept of minority is rarely understood tolerated or accepted by Sunni Islamic countries.
@JohnnySpot How is that relevant for one, and two, you had every right to press charges on that kid, the police have no say on that, they have to abide by your wishes on criminal issues.
@NativePortlander1970 "A little science estranges a man from God, a lot of science brings him back" - Francis Bacon (pioneer of scientific methodology)
