@hippyjoe1955 It is unfortunate that you are so ignorant about your favorite ancient ethnocentric racist Middle Eastern Jewish religious fairytale. You still have 999,999 hours to go before you get promoted to preschool class.
@Diotrephes So says the blind man who denies rainbows. You have shot your wad and no one is impressed by your religious fanaticism based on ignorance and hatred. Have a nice oblivion.
@LeopoldBloom I consider the authority of what is said by who states it. Everyone has an opinion. If the other is not connected to the beginning of creation; I don’t give it much veracity. You can ask for anything. It doesn’t mean I will transact in like spirit. I don’t have much respect for peer reviews in theoretical sciences.
@Aliveshock Science is based on peer reviews. Without that, all you have is personal preference. You may consider the Bible to be an authority, but that's just your opinion. I consider it to be a collection of poetry, mythology, rules, and historically-based fiction.
@SW-User It seems as if you are creating anew religion. According to th biblical fairytale, Christianity has a whole volume of rules. You may want to read the story again with open eyes.
SW-User
@Diotrephes It is not for me to suggest how you help other people.
@SW-User Just saying, that if you want to discuss a topic in a meaningful way, you should have some real knowledge of it. The best way to understand the biblical fairytale is to actually read it for yourself and to analyze what it says. Depending on silly Hollywood movies and garbage spewed by conmen preachers will leave you ignorant.
@SW-User Pressure from adults on their kids can have devastating effects. When I was very young a neighborhood asked me: 'Are you saved?' I didn't know what he meant. He said, 'If you are not saved, you are going to hell!' Naturally, nobody wants to go to hell. Thankfully, my parents comforted me.
@SW-User I am truly sorry! Sadly, many parents are not the 'safe keepers' of their children. I too have witnessed it in my lifetime and it makes me cry.
My parents were far from perfect too. I think that religion was not a major influence, was based upon their childhoods. I was told about the Golden Rule, and to treat others with kindness and compassion, just as I would wish to be treated. I have tried my best to follow that path. Many days I am successful, many days I fail because of my refusal to remain silent in the face of hatred, bigotry, cruelty, mendacity, and evil.
I think what people find liberating is that they have clear direction. It provides them with meaning and purpose. If they were lacking that, like many of us are, they find it through the worship of a god. As such, the rules exist as a framework for consideration of the meaning/purpose they find through it.
@Skinnygingesarah Well, that's the thing. I've often wondered if there was a way to predict the probability that there actually is one....or many or whatever....But the really is that it's pointless.....This is an is/isn't....and we will likely never actually know....Life after death is the same way.....but none of us have actually seen kind nor lived post death, so in the end, I just find it all hard to believe. Like you, I like things I can see, touch, feel, hear....
@originnone What evidence is there of God’s existence?
SW-User
Rules are given in exchange for freedom, with that freedom being submission to God. Without recognizing and observing those rules, you just become a slave to inferior forces who oppress you with no understanding of your worth or your potential, and with no desire to really see you flourish. These rules, of which there are many (more than you'd know), are there because they take us away from slavery, and bind our relationship to God.
note: I'm not especially religious anymore, but this is my understanding of why there are "rules".
The Rules are are pre planning a peaceful healthy society and preemptively avoiding arguments and fights, even death. The “rules” are created to help people live a long peaceful life. To do so you must be self disciplined.
The freedom is in knowing that, if you believe you can do this, then you can…with Gods help… even if you are struggling and imperfect. Because no one is perfect.
i am an atheist but I think in terms of liberating as in liberating the believers from the fear of death. The notion that their is an afterlife providing the believers comfort in that life has no end by granting them an afterlife in exchange for the various rules they are presented with. In Christian religion that is the rub of "forgiveness" so you don't actually to follow said rules.
How we deal with death and end of life, especially in my country (USA) is beyond depressing. Pretending that doesn't doesn't exist and relabeling it as a "transition" (to the afterlife) feels really emotionally unhealthy. one could substitute transition (from life to afterlife) with liberate (from this life to some fairy tale afterlife) and address your question.
IMO, all religions are divisive. They are all male dominant and female passive, at the least, and slavery at the extreme. I refuse to take part in something that refuses to place women on an equal plane with men.
@JSul3 Your feminism is a joke. There is no wage disparity. It is always a matter of choice, My wife over her lifetime will never earn as much money as me. She chose to stay home and raise children. Which of us by our career added more value to this world? She did.
@hippyjoe1955 You are fortunate that your wife was able to stay home and raise your children. Not every family is as fortunate, and in many cases, the woman is the sole breadwinner. To this day women make less than men for the same job. That is fact.
Your self-righteousness is always on display with every comment you make.
@JSul3 Your ignorance of such matters is based on government stats not the real world. Women do not earn less money because they are women. They earn less money because they choose time off to have children and lower paying jobs. I was on a job site one day and there was two spools of wire that needed to be taken upstairs. The spools were quite heavy so two men put a rod through the center hole of the spool and carried the first spool upstairs without stopping. A few moments later 4 young women put a rod through the center hole of hte remaining spool and began carrying it upstairs. they had to stop multiple times to rest and reposition. So if you were to look at the unites of work. Let us say that carrying those spools was worth $100,00. each. So the 2 guys would have earned $50.00 each for 5 minutes of work. The 4 women would have earned $25.00 each for 15 minutes of work. So in reality is it fair that the women would make $40.00 an hour just as the men when they are not doing the same amount of work in the same time period?
@SW-User It doesn't help one bit. What do you pray for? Whatever it is, you could get it yourself if you are willing to personally work for it and do what is necssary to get it done. It is exactly the same thing as asking the genie to grant you your wishes, but in the case of praying, you substitute the imaginary genie for the imaginary character called "God" (which is just a title and not a specific name).
SW-User
@Diotrephes I appreciate your comments, they help me sharpen up my faith. I’ll have another look at Johns first epistle before Xmas. The author has a lot of good information on prayer.
I know there are a few like you on site who are searching for God. And yes I get rudeness and mocking. But does that really matter.
Kant believed freedom was in confirmity to rational self-legislation. You aren't really free in a state of anomie, you're disordered. Consequently, there is no contradiction between freedom and order if freedom is rightly understood. But I'm guessing you just meant to bash religion, so try again.
@Alyosha That was just a low IQ bashing attempt by a lacking self conscious mind otherwise any law can be deemed as strict and if we unleash liberty, chaos is certain.
SW-User
At best, religions can be a path to liberation. As the Bible says:-"You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free" (John 8:32)
Or in the Buddhist Theravada texts:-
[i]So this holy life does not have gain, honour, and renown for its benefit, or the attainment of virtue for its benefit, or the attainment of concentration for its benefit, or knowledge and vision for its benefit. But it is this unshakeable deliverance of mind that is the goal of this holy life, its heartwood, and its end.[/i]
As a path, at the beginning, often much self-discipline is required. Therefore rules.
Unfortunately it can all become corrupted. Discipline and rules, instead of becoming a means to an end, become the thing itself.
Meister Eckhart:- "They do Him wrong who know God in just one particular way - they end with the way rather than God"
@BizSuitStacy You are an intelligent person. Why are you so reluctant to read the fucking story yourself and discover the truth? The church teaches the false ones because they sound reasonable instead of the real ones, which are full of hate, animal cruelity, and ethnocentric racism.
As I have pointed out numerous times, simply read the damn story for yourself and then you will understand. If you are happy with the fake ones go with them but you will always remain in ignorance. The choice is yours.
@Diotrephes Dude...I've read it. Already told you I know about it. If the church teachings based on the original tablets are wrong, so be it. I'm not gonna steal, not gonna murder, not gonna covet, etc.
What's astonishing is how many people spend time in the dust and dirt trying to draw the best picture of God when our concept of the Universe is only seconds old.
@SW-User The gods too many argue and fight over are clear representations of man, his pettiness, his need for revenge and attention and his desire to be led like a child. That is not what the Universe is.
SW-User
@Graylight So you are a random collection of atoms colliding together after the Big Bang!
The Laws of God are there to cause one to realize that one falls short of living up to the laws odf God.. No one follows the strict rules without failing..
Once one accepts that one is always going to fall short of the standards of God one is then open to the Way of salvation the LORD has made through trusting in the atonement of the LORD Jesus who's death on the cross pays the penalty for ones failures to live up to the standards of God...
@Graylight According to the Bible, hungry people should be elated when swarms of locusts appear because they can eat them in all kinds of recipes. They are supposed to make an excellent meal when mixed with honey. That was a favorite of John the Baptist.
Matthew 3:4 (KJV) = "Now John himself was clothed in camel’s hair, with a leather belt around his waist; and his food was locusts and wild honey."
@JSul3 You might try reading the Holy Bible before spreading falsehoods like that. The 10 commandments were made by the finger of God. Deuteronomy 9:10
@Pfuzylogic According to the biblical narrative, the first set of tablets, inscribed by the finger of God, (Exodus 31:18) were smashed by Moses when he was enraged by the sight of the Children of Israel worshiping a golden calf (Exodus 32:19) and the second were later chiseled out by Moses and rewritten by God (Exodus 34:1).
@Skinnygingesarah I feel like this thread has a life of its own. What were you hoping to get out of the thread and do you want religion to be liberating or at least have less strict rules?
The rules are made for our own sake, because we can not rule ourselves. Just look at the state of pain and suffering the world is in. That's the doing of human beings ruling themselves; all of it.
