Most politicians that are calling this a genocide are doing it for political reasons.
It is not genocide as far as exterminating the Palestinians. Israel could do a much better job if it was committing that kind of genocide.
However the Palestinians wish genocide on Israel. They can’t accomplish this so they will play the victim trying to act innocent and fool the international community. The truth is if the Palestinians were able to they would be the ones committing genocide.
I have no sympathy for Palestinians. Their goal is to commit genocide on all that are not Muslin.
[quote] "I am appalled at the violence and the indiscriminate loss of life", and on the question of genocide: "they’re still determining it.[/quote]
That’s not meaningless at all as that’s what the ICJ determined some months ago. What she said is more reasonable than many of y’all who’ll accuse Israel of committing genocide without concrete evidence. Innocent until proven guilty
[quote] ICJ did find it plausible that Israel is committing genocide. [/quote]
ICJ ordered Israel to take steps to PREVENT any acts of genocide in Gaza. That’s way different from finding Israel guilty of it. If it were plausible they would have called for a ceasefire.
That’s why this war continues. At the end of the day Israel is doing what can be done to limit civilian deaths, providing humanitarian aid, and eliminating Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists. It’s why your talks of genocide does not connect with the actions Israel is doing. With thst being said, I’m done here. You have a great day.
@badlands says [quote]Trump isn't very good at lying if we can all tell his lies.[/quote] I may have slightly mis-stated. We can't tell [i]all[/i] of Trump's lies; the 30,573 known lies and falsehoods are the ones we [i]can[/i] tell.
As for Trump not being a very good liar, that brings up an interesting point - Trump often tells different lies to different audiences. It's only when you start to add them up that you see them for what they are. Cases in point:
June 2015: “There’s nobody bigger or better at the military than I am.” July 2016: "So a general gets on, sent obviously by Obama, and he said, 'Mr. Trump doesn't understand. He knows nothing about defense.' I know more about offense and defense than they will ever understand, believe me. Believe me. Than they will ever understand. Than they will ever understand." Nov 2015: "I know more about ISIS than the generals do." Nov 2015: "I know more about courts than any human being on Earth." Mar 2016: "Nobody knows more about trade than me." Apr 2016: "I know more about renewables than any human being on Earth." May 2016: "I think nobody knows more about taxes than I do, maybe in the history of the world. Nobody knows more about taxes." July 2016: "[L]ook, as a builder, nobody in the history of this country has ever known so much about infrastructure as Donald Trump." Feb 8 2017: "I understand things. I comprehend very well. Ok? Better than, I think, almost anybody" Dec 2018: "Technology — nobody knows more about technology than me." Jan 2019: "I know more about drones than anybody. I know about every form of safety that you can have."
Want video evidence Trump said these things? [media=https://youtu.be/sR3f95BGIiA]
@ElwoodBlues Fauci was engineering coronavirus diseases, much of this was being done in Wuhan. He made the comment in 2017, and predicted that in a few years there would be a "surprise outbreak." Few represents a small number. Fauci knew he was not far away from unleashing this disaster on the world. Trump was president. All the other diseases you mention were contained. Covid spread around the world within weeks. It is a different virus, which has been engineered through gain-of-function.
Other questions and what I think of them were addressed in my response to the matter of nationwide lockdowns.
The SARS outbreak occurred during the Bush admin; Bush also addressed global AIDS. George W. Bush said in 2005: "If we wait for a pandemic to appear, it will be too late to prepare." Lots of people were thinking about the next pandemic.
The outgoing (Obama) administration had already faced multiple pandemics, including the 2009 swine flu (H1N1) pandemic, the 2015–2016 Zika virus epidemic, and the 2014-16 Ebola outbreak in West Africa.
It didn't take a genius or a mad scientist to hypothesize another pandemic. Plenty of people were thinking about them.
In previous centuries, many people believed in superstitions like ghosts and fairies and dreams that foretold the future. Conspiracy theories like yours are the modern form of superstitions. It allows you to assign blame and meaning when unexpected things happen. I'll bet you believe in Trump's conspiracy theory that he lost the election to some GiAnTt CoNsPiRaCy as well, [b]LOL!!![/b]
@ElwoodBlues You said: "I may have slightly mis-stated. We can't tell all of Trump's lies; the 30,573 known lies and falsehoods are the ones we can tell."
And how many known lies did you tell? Known lies are those that are deliberate including those that prick your conscience. Pretending to be what you are not is also lying. Does focusing on Trump's perceived lies make you feel better about yourself?
The despicable characteristic about Trump haters is self-righteousness. Trump is an American. We Americans lie all the time. It's called marketing. We even lie to the fish.
@sree251 asks [quote] You said: "Thanks mostly to the vaccines, population resistance to Covid has increased, and it has evolved to a much more mild form."
Is this your belief or is it a conclusion of a published medical report? Can you cite the publication? For your sake, I pledge to read it and revert with my comments for a discussion. [/quote] Based on the abstracts, these peer reviewed publications support my point. My weakest claim is that evolved variants have reduced virulence.
[u]First point: vaccines provide population resistance[/u]
[b][i]Effectiveness of COVID-19 Vaccination in Reducing Hospitalizations, Intensive Care Unit Admissions, and Deaths - New England Journal of Medicine (2021)[/i]:[/b]
This study analyzed data from over 600,000 people in the United States who received mRNA COVID-19 vaccines. It found that the vaccines were highly effective in preventing hospitalization, ICU admission, and death from COVID-19, with effectiveness ranging from 88% to 97% depending on the variant and the number of vaccine doses received. [b]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9459165/[/b]
[b][i]Reduced SARS-CoV-2 Transmission after Vaccination with BNT162b2 mRNA Vaccine - Nature (2021): [/i][/b] This study, published in Nature, investigated the impact of vaccination on transmission of the virus. It found that vaccination with the BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech) significantly reduced the risk of transmission of the virus from infected individuals to their contacts. [b]https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-41109-9[/b]
[u]Next point: Virulence decreases over time[/u]
[b][i]Reduction in COVID-19-related mortality over time but disparities across population subgroups[/i][/b]
Nab and colleagues6 found that COVID-19-related mortality rates decreased over time, with crude rates per 1000 person-years declining from 4·48 deaths during wave one (March 23–May 30, 2020) to 0·67 deaths during wave five (June 24–Aug 3, 2022). Compared with wave one, wave two (Sept 7, 2020–April 24, 2021), corresponding with alpha (B.1.1.7) variant circulation and before most adults were vaccinated against COVID-19, showed broad decreases in mortality rates. . . . During wave three (May 28–Dec 14, 2021; in which delta [B.1.617.2] was the dominant variant), the largest decreases in mortality rates were observed among groups who were prioritised for COVID-19 vaccination, especially older adults who had very high primary vaccine series coverage. This finding is consistent with data that have shown a lower risk of severe COVID-19-related outcomes among vaccinated adults, and highlights the fundamental importance of vaccination for all adults.
[u]Final point: vaccinated retain some resistance to escaped variants[/u]
[b][i] Immune Escape by SARS-CoV-2 Variants of Concern - Science Immunology (2021):[/i][/b] This article explores how some variants can partially evade immune responses. However, it highlights that these variants still face significant immune pressure from vaccination and prior infection, making complete escape unlikely. [b]https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.abj1750[/b]
@sree251 [quote]Aids is also a viral disease. You are splitting hairs, [/quote] AIDS - by integrating its genetic material into the host cell's DNA, and by infecting and degrading immune system T cells is - radically different from almost every virus we've encountered, as is treating infected immune cells different from treating other infections. I'm not splitting hairs, you're revealing a great deal of ignorance.
[quote]I was expecting him to plead the Fifth Amendment.[/quote] Being nervous under oath after a pair of Senators effectively accused you of worldwide mass murder is NOT unusual, and it's certainly NOT proof of guilt😂🤣
You still haven't presented a SHRED of evidence that Fauci was aware of the grant in the 2015-2019 timeframe, nor that Fauci was paying particular attention to coronaviruses prior to the pandemic. Again, all your "evidence" comes from 2021, post politicization.
@ElwoodBlues [quote] You still haven't presented a SHRED of evidence that Fauci was aware of the grant in the 2015-2019 timeframe, nor that Fauci was paying particular attention to coronaviruses prior to the pandemic. Again, all your "evidence" comes from 2021, post politicization. [/quote]
I am not going to dignify a goddam cat in a white lab coat in a discussion on the inquiry into the job performance of the Director of the NIH.
[quote] Being nervous under oath after a pair of Senators effectively accused you of worldwide mass murder is NOT unusual, and it's certainly NOT proof of guilt😂🤣 [/quote]
Was Fauci being accused of worldwide mass murder? You are being melodramatic. Covid 19 being developed as a bio-weapon is a conspiracy theory. I do not believe that the Chinese would be that dumb to facilitate the development of a US germ in China for harming themselves.
My guess is that Covid 19 was a screw-up of mammoth proportions that killed people and wrecked major national economies throughout the world. It was not a bio-weapon. It was something that happens when people sleep on the job. Scientific research into infectious disease is a cutting edge project that has no safeguards mainly because it is wading into territory never traversed before. Explorers risk their lives doing things for the first time. What was unforgivable about the Covid pandemic was not the creation of the virus. It was the lack of safety response procedure in the event of its escape from the lab into the general population. Safety measures for prevention of a pandemic are costly, and Fauci either did not consider the necessity for them or the provision for such measures would tank the project. He knowingly risked our lives instead of his own and his fellow scientists. The other possibility is that he could care less. He didn't think he would be held personally responsible as Director of the NIH. He was too precious to the world for his work on AIDS.
"Fauci made his name in AIDS research; Baric specialized in coronaviruses. VERY different fields."
Fauci's NIH profile says:
[quote]Dr. Fauci served as NIAID Director from 1984 to 2022. He oversaw an extensive research portfolio of basic and applied research to prevent, diagnose, and treat established infectious diseases such as HIV/AIDS, respiratory infections, diarrheal diseases, tuberculosis, and malaria as well as emerging diseases such as Ebola, Zika and COVID-19. He also led the NIAID research effort on transplantation and immune-related illnesses, including autoimmune disorders, asthma, and allergies. [/quote]
I have already linked this page. Did you read it? You say "Fauci made his name in AIDS research", but what is this supposed to mean? The immune system is his concern. Fauci has researched many diseases. His profile says he researches respiratory viruses and emerging diseases like Covid-19. "Made his name" and [i]does[/i] are two very different things. Fauci is a dynamic guy!
"NIH grants $45 BILLION per year, in the form of 60,000 grants per year!! NIH grants tend to result is at least one publication per year!! Do the math - that's 60,000 research papers per year coming out of NIH - Do you think any single human being has the capacity to even read 60,000 research abstracts per year??"
Fauci talks about the "grant" and "subgrant" used to research coronaviruses in the video I mention, which is featured in the Grabien news article I linked. This talk around Fauci not knowing about the subgrant to research bat coronaviruses is speculation, and the interview Fauci gave regarding this matter contradicts your view. He displays prior knowledge. Fauci was less open in court. This is what happens when people are in court.
"Reverse genetics was being utilized in Wuhan. That's NOT the same as gain of function. As my link above explained, most reverse genetics results in LOSS-of-function."
Reverse genetics can involve gain of function.
You continue to say "Fauci was briefed" about this issue, but what do you know? You aren't his lawyer or spokesman. How do you know what Fauci was told to say, if he was told to say anything? Fauci is sharing his knowledge in the video, and it was knowledge he had prior to the emergence, or escape, of covid-19.
"You still haven't presented a SHRED of evidence that Fauci was aware of the grant in the 2015-2019 timeframe, nor that Fauci was paying particular attention to coronaviruses prior to the pandemic. Again, all your "evidence" comes from 2021, post politicization."
Hey, Fauci also said: "Everyone in the world was trying to figure out what the original source of SARS was."
[media=https://youtu.be/99t52hom3eo]
It sounds like he may have approved research to find this out. What do you think? Are you going to say he was briefed again?
[quote] All they do is think about what they say, who their audience is, and what will happen to them as they reach for power. [/quote]
There's an awful lot to chew on in this post, and I'm late to the party, but consider this.
It sounds to me like AOC may finally be at the point where she's growing up and realizing she needs power not just for her own pocket or ego, but to be more effective at accomplishing something.
Maybe she does or doesn't have an agenda beside her own career, ego, or pocket, and maybe it's right or wrong headed.
But I really have a hard time criticizing a politician just for judging the room and thinking about what they say.
What bothers me far worse is people who only judge the room, will say anything, and then later say they didn't say it.
[quote]"This really does make me question the Democratic process."[/quote]
It's based on the premise that you can't fool most of the people most of the time, and it's the worst form of government, except for all the others (Churchill), as bitter historical experience has shown.
P.S. I would have used a small "d". The Democrats are doing their best to move us to a de facto one-party country, because they know best about everything, don'tcha know.
[quote]"Pre-Trump's win, I'd probably have said (and might even have said here), that the strength of our government lies not so much in the Democratic nature of it, but in the balance of it, over time."[/quote]
Why just pre-Trump? The usual pattern continued after Trump was elected.
[quote]"Shifts in party power back and forth have kept "progress" generally slow and the economy overall predictable, which I think is actually what should be a major function of government, keeping the lights on and pleasing enough people enough of the time to keep things running."[/quote]
Seems like a good idea; it has served us well for quite a while.
[quote] "Trump, and really the MAGA movement, has really gotten under my skin. I dont see it as conservative at all, as much as radical and reactionary, rejecting all kinds of norms and rules that allowed humanity to flourish and, well, progress."[/quote]
Well, if it is what you say it is, why not let the democratic process work itself out? What's the alternative? To throw everyone with impure MAGA thoughts into a re-education camp?
[quote] "Without the Golden Rule, without science, logic, and education, where would we be, and where will we go next?"[/quote]
One could well ask the current Democrats that same question. 🙄
@Thinkerbell [quote] The Democrats are doing their best to move us to a de facto one-party country,[/quote] The Democrats are doing their best to make gerrymandering and voter suppression things of the past. Why? Because the majority of the electorate leans towards the big tent of the Democrats.
[quote] why not let the democratic process work itself out?[/quote] Is this your way of saying "ignore the evidence about a person just because he happens to be a candidate"??
Wow, Bernie Madoff could have avoided prosecution if he had simply run for office! "Cops and courts hate it when you use this one trick"😂🤣
Look, investigations of Trump's apparently illegal activities began as soon as he left office. And then, Trump used every legal trick in the book to stall stall stall. And then as soon as the midterm elections had ended, Trump lost not a minute in declaring his candidacy. Did he speed the legal cases to clear his name? No, he did the opposite so he could use his candidacy as an excuse to duck the legal cases.
Why not let the democratic process work itself out? Why not let the legal processes work themselves out?? Since when did declaring a candidacy become a get-out-of-prosecution-free card???
[quote]One could well ask the current Democrats that same question.[/quote] Democrats aren't the ones denying the science of climatology. Democrats aren't the ones denying epidemiology. Democrats aren't the ones denying evolution. Democrats aren't the ones banning hundreds of books. Democrats aren't the ones denying that guns are now the most common cause of death among children.
Well, if it is what you say it is, why not let the democratic process work itself out? [/quote]
FWIW, I am in favor of letting the Democratic Process run itself out, despite the fact that I'm alarmed by the polls.
Pointedly, I don't think taking him off the ballot is a good thing for the country, for example, regardless of the legal issues with that.
The thing is, though, I also think the judicial process should be allowed to run itself out, and in that case, I'm not at all sympathetic to Trump's bs about absolute immunity, or his pleas to stall proceedings until after the election.
[quote]they’re still determining it. But in the interim ruling, the fact that they said there’s a responsibility to prevent it, the fact that this word is even in play, the fact that this word is even in our discourse, I think, demonstrates the mass inhumanity that Gazans are facing.[/quote]
Yeah, this is basically just a way of saying it's a genocide without incurring the crazy, hyperbolic backlash that Ilhan Omar got. Imagine a politician saying this about vaccines causing autism. Like an interviewer asks if vaccines cause autism and they say,
"We can't be entirely sure. But based on the data we have, the fact that there's reasonable concern, a lot of people are saying it, I think we need to take this seriously and pump the breakes on these vaccines."
You would probably assume that that politician thinks vaccines cause autism and they're just veiling it in the thinnest layer of plausible deniability... especially if their policy record matched that belief. Fact is, AOC has been among the strongest advocates in Congress for Palestinian civilians.
@NativePortlander1970 K I feel bad for all the people who they murdered, but terrorism doesn't justify mass-scale violence against civilians. We've seen this story play out a thousand times and it always ends badly for everyone.
@badlands How does AOC not saying the g-word imply that she doesn't mean it? If the pro-Palestinian politicians all get smeared, ostracized, and made politically irrelevant, that won't do anything to help all the kids starving to death in Gaza. Right now, AOC needs to serve as a figurehead for Palestinian liberation, raise support however she can, maintain good optics, and extract whatever concessions are possible from the Democratic leadership.
If a word like "genocide" is to have any meaning at all it should never be merely an easy slogan shouted by "protests" that are much sound and fury usually achieving nothing, to paraphrase Shakespeare.
What Israel is doing in the Gaza strip is appalling and inexcusable, breaking one law after another although understandable; but where were the protests against Hamas - a brutal group with no legitimacy or scruples, and not even much real regard for their fellow-Palestinians?
Where is the understanding that anti-Semitism, anti-Zionism and anti-Israel (some Orthodox Jews would agree with the last) are three different "isms"; that being anti-Hamas is not an excuse for being anti-Muslim?
There never was a real territory of "Israel", and that as as we know it is an artificiality imposed on Palestine by the League of Nations as a sort of nervous, guilt-assuaging reaction to the real genocide - by Adolf Hitler's regime - and it caused large-scale displacement and suffering for the Arabs in their own, ancient land. So that imposition was always going to be problematical to say the least; but Hamas have never made any secret of its aim to destroy Israel, and now Israel has largely lost the moral credibility it once had, and lowered herself to the depths inhabited by the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah, if not quite ISIS.
However and whenever this is settled, it has put back the notion of a peaceful Middle East for possibly decades. Each side is now as bad as the other.
I do not know what Orcasio-Cortez actually said, to whom in what context, and I do not know the relevant points in international law - but those laws are far more important than noisy protestors with one-sided views.
@BohemianBoo The "but do you condemn Hamas?" question arises from the media wanting to show it isn't antisemitic, like some have alleged. It has to say they have asked all the right questions, that it has tried to be fair. It's a pointless question. I wish we could be more honest.
@badlands I think it's more about distracting from the genocide. The media doesn't want to talk about Israel's war crimes, so they try to deflect to Hamas.
@badlands says [quote] Covid vaccines have the potential to do harm, and each person had to decide whether it was worth the risk, or if they needed it. They need to know what the risks are, and whether it is necessary.[/quote]
YOU are the one being misleading, because you're not providing the risks of vaccine vs Covid. Here are the stats, and they prove the vaccine is FAR safer than facing Covid unprotected.
[sep][sep][sep]
The vaccine harmed very very few. The UK registered 59 deaths caused by vaccine from 2020-22 (last year's stats will be ready later in Feb); however they mostly used AstraZeneca. [b]https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsduetocovid19covid19vaccineinjuryandexcessdeathsbyvaccinationstatus[/b]
In the US, the only identified risk of the mRNA vaccines was a slight uptick in myocarditiis. [quote]The association between COVID-19 vaccination and increased incidences of cardiac-related disorders such as myocarditis has been described by several studies.12,28,29 Goddard et al.30 conducted a large study evaluating the incidence of cardiac side effects of the vaccine among 7 million people in the United States. They reported an incidence of 320 cases 1–98 days after approximately 7 million vaccine doses.30[/quote] [b]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10402862/[/b]
320 cases in 7 million patients. That's 0.0046% And the myocarditis clears up over time. Odds of DEATH among the unprotected is 0.5%; odds of long covid are 5X higher. That's about 500 to 1 for the math challenged.
Any sane analysis would tell these people who contracted myocarditis that their odds of avoiding severe complications are FAR FAR better (500 to 1) with the vaccine vs facing the virus unprotected.
@ElwoodBlues You said: "Thanks mostly to the vaccines, population resistance to Covid has increased, and it has evolved to a much more mild form."
Is this your belief or is it a conclusion of a published medical report? Can you cite the publication? For your sake, I pledge to read it and revert with my comments for a discussion.
@sree251 Florida is a case that demonstrates my point.
In Sept 2020 - months before Covid-19 vaccines became available - DeSantis declared that the worst was over for Florida. The result, after the Delta wave, was deadly; Florida's per capita Covid death rate eventually exceeded those of New York & California.
[quote]... But in Florida, unlike the nation as a whole — and states like New York and California that Mr. DeSantis likes to single out — most people who died from Covid died after vaccines became available to all adults, not before. As the governor’s political positions began to shift, so did his state’s death rate, for the worse.[/quote]
Per capita death rates from COVID-19 in the US as of March 10, 2023 (per 100,000 people) (selected states)
Mississippi 449 West Virginia 444 Florida 404 New York 397 Massachusetts 353 California 256 Oregon 222 Source: [b]https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/[/b]
Remember that Covid hit first in CA, MA, NY, and OR. Yet Florida managed to exceed the per capita death rates of all these early-Covid states.
Here's the ICJ opinion that was released earlier today:
[b]Opinion: [/b] In the matter before the Court, the discourse revolves around the ongoing conflict between Israel and Palestine, with the focus on the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. The Court acknowledges the complexity of the situation and the deeply held convictions of the parties involved. It is imperative to examine the evidence and arguments presented with careful scrutiny to ascertain the truth and render a just decision.
The comments put forth by various individuals highlight divergent perspectives on the nature of the conflict and the actions taken by the parties involved. Specman asserts that the United Nations' classification of genocide is biased against Israel, suggesting a lack of objectivity in international assessments. BohemianBoo provides a counterargument, citing the UN's criteria for genocide and alleging that Israel's actions meet several of these criteria.
Further exchanges delve into the specifics of the conflict, with allegations of deliberate targeting of civilians and the use of human shields. Specman contends that Hamas bears responsibility for civilian casualties due to their tactics, while BohemianBoo challenges this assertion, accusing Israel of perpetuating violence and restricting aid to Gaza.
The Court recognizes the gravity of the situation and the profound humanitarian implications of the conflict. It is incumbent upon all parties to prioritize the protection of innocent lives and seek peaceful resolutions to the underlying grievances. While divergent viewpoints may persist, the pursuit of justice and reconciliation remains paramount in achieving lasting peace in the region.
[b]Dissent: [/b] In dissent, it is asserted that the majority opinion fails to adequately address the root causes of the conflict and the disproportionate impact of Israel's actions on the civilian population of Gaza. The dissenting opinion contends that Israel's military tactics, including airstrikes on civilian infrastructure and the blockade of Gaza, constitute violations of international law and exacerbate the humanitarian crisis.
Specman's assertions regarding Hamas' culpability for civilian casualties are challenged, with the dissent arguing that Israel's overwhelming military superiority and the blockade of Gaza limit the ability of Palestinians to protect themselves. Moreover, allegations of Hamas using civilians as human shields are disputed, with evidence suggesting that such claims may be overstated or misrepresented.
The dissent emphasizes the need for accountability and justice for all parties involved in the conflict. It calls for a comprehensive assessment of Israel's military actions and policies toward Gaza, including the legality of the blockade and the use of force against civilians. Furthermore, the dissent underscores the importance of international cooperation and oversight in addressing the humanitarian crisis and advancing the cause of peace in the region.
[quote]"Isaac Herzog is a top official in the Netanyahu government." "Yes, it wasn't Hitler, it was Goebbels."[/quote]
😂 😂 😂 Once again, Boo-Boo, you have proved that you can hardly write two sentences without getting what you're trying to say totally wrong. 😂 😂 😂
No, Herzog is NOT to Netanyahu as Goebbels was to Hitler; Herzog and Netanyahu aren't even in the same political party.
Herzog is in the LABOR party, and was for years the leader of the OPPOSITION to Netanyahu's Likud coalition in the Knesset.
Herzog is currently President of Israel, the largely ceremonial office of head of state with a term of 7 years, which is INDEPENDENT of whoever the Prime Minister (i.e., the chief executive, currently Netanyahu) may be.
Boo-Boo, your grasp of history, of current events and of human nature is nothing short of abysmal. 🙄
@Thinkerbell So you see why sane people are saying Zionists just want to commit genocide? Out of everything I said, the only thing you're addressing is a trivial detail. Like yes, Herzog isn't the Propaganda Minister of Israel. The reason I compared him to Goebbels is because he's a top official in the Israeli government. His words reflect policy. And we can say, [i]well it wasn't the Prime Minister who said that![/i] But the point it the Israeli government is verbally backing up what we're all seeing them doing. Netanyahu could condemn those remarks from Herzog, but why would he, when he agrees with them?
As for every other point I made, you had to backtrack on, then outright ignore, because you know I'm correct. Israel tells the civilians to go to safe zones, then they bomb those safe zones. They bombed Rafah before they even bothered to claim that now Hamas is there.
My only question is why not just admit that you support the genocide? Are you afraid of driving normies away from Zionism? It's kinda too late for that, the normies are already against Israel's genocide.
Hamas is yet another terrorist organization that needs to be destroyed. However, they don't represent all Palestinians. They need to come to a compromise where young Palestinians are not taught to hate Jews and Isreal gets rid of apartheids. None of this is the business of the US government though. These people have been fighting since ancient times and it will likely continue that way unless one side or the other wins.
I really admire Truman. He made some important decisions, and he made them right.
Use of nuclear weapons to end the war with Japan, Marshal Plan aid to put western Europe back on its feet, establishing NATO to prevent the Soviets from taking over western Europe, and defending South Korea from the communist invasion. (South Korea today has about the same size GDP as Russia.)
And honest to boot; didn't enrich himself by taking financial advantage of his political offices.
@badlands says [quote]I say "related" because the cause of death, in some cases, was being attributed to covid when it was not.[/quote] and [quote]Covid was madness, and the only cure has been time and truth. [/quote]
Are you suggesting the Covid was overhyped? That it was often mis-diagnosed?? Are the Covid death numbers partly the result of mis-classification of other causes of death??? Let's look at the numbers.
Here in the table are US death numbers for the top ten causes of death for six years ending in 2020. Notice how there are 20% more deaths in 2020 than the average of the previous five years? Doing the math, that's 500,000 excess deaths in 2020.
Notice how, in 2020, 345,000 of those 500,000 excess deaths are classified as Covid? Notice how almost all causes of death rose in 2020, including cancer & heart disease?
If there's any validity to the claim that lots of deaths have been mis-classified as Covid, why did almost all causes of death increase in 2020? Wouldn't mis-classification produce a reduction in those other causes? The evidence says mis-classification is a red herring.
@ElwoodBlues The claim that some are harmed by the vaccine? What do you want me to do? Lie and say that "no people are harmed by the vaccine, never, ever!" Deny, deny, deny.
Which other claims are you too dishonest to handle?
@badlands [quote]What do you want me to do? [/quote] I want you to stop pretending statistically insignificant events have any bearing on vaccine choices. I want you to stop attempting to mislead and fool others with statistical rarities.
I would like people like you to stop with your lies and misrepresentations, but you won't. Covid vaccines have the potential to do harm, and each person had to decide whether it was worth the risk, or if they needed it. They need to know what the risks are, and whether it is necessary. We all need to know what the possibilities are instead of being propagandized and led on leashes by our governments and by the media. Look at you here, getting so affronted by the comment "some have issues resembling covid and long covid after receiving the vaccine." This is like getting mad when someone says the sky is blue and the sun is out on a hot July day.
@sree251 says [quote] Covid is a flu virus. It's kill rate among the healthy is zero;[/quote] @badlands says [quote]Covid is a respiratory virus, which we always knew only hospitalized the sick, the obese, and the elderly[/quote]
You people seem unable to understand statistics; maybe anecdotes are what you need!
"I have an immune system" "99 probs vax ain't 1" "Officer Jack Nyce was a 17-year veteran of the force, the police department said in a statement on its Facebook page announcing his death. Sadly, he refused to be vaxxed and died of Covid." A former Yakima area-based Washington State Patrol trooper whose resignation over mandated COVID vaccination for state employees went viral has died. The State Patrol announced Robert LaMay’s death Friday Jan 28 2022. He was 50. Republican official H. Scott Apley who mocked COVID in final Facebook post dies of virus in Texas
@badlands AstraZeneca was never authorized for use in the US, so it's irrelevant to us. Can you show us published reports of deaths caused by the J&J vaccine? No? I didn't think so, [b]LOL!!![/b]
@ElwoodBlues US isn't the only country in the world. This post is about AOC and her comments on Gaza. Gaza is in Palestine. Why is the US sending money and arms to Israel if what happens outside the country is "irrelevant"?
At least 60 deaths have been attributed to the J&J vaccine. Why do you think it isn't being used anymore?
[quote]have been attributed[/quote] What does that mean? What is the passive voice hiding? Attributed by whom?? If some people "attribute" a death to witchcraft, how useful is that attribution??
@badlands says [quote]The vaccines have caused harm too.[/quote] Not NEARLY as much harm as the virus. Not by a LONG shot!!
The vaccines saved over ONE MILLION lives in the US in 2021 alone. Here's the math behind the ONE MILLION SAVED number.
The data https://similarworlds.com/disease-illness/vaccines/4268857-Covid-Vaccine-effectiveness-data-from-the-US-2021 says 80% of US Covid deaths came from the 25% unvaxxed. Unvaxxed population = 83 million; vaxxed = 249 million. CDC estimate for US Covid deaths in 2021 is 460,000, so 368,000 deaths among the unvaxxed and 92,000 among the vaxxed - your basic pandemic of the unvaccinated.
That works out to a 0.44% death rate among unvaxxed, and a 0.037% death rate among the vaccinated. Please, get out your calculator and check my work!
If the death rate among vaxxed were equal to the death rate among the unvaxxed, that would have resulted in 1.1 million deaths instead of 92 thousand in 2021. Thus the vaccines have ALREADY saved OVER ONE MILLION lives in 2021 alone. That's a YUGE vaccine benefit!!!
And that's just deaths. In 2021, the vaccinated also benefit from a 5X lower infection rate, at least a 5X lower hospitalization rate, and a 5X lower 'long Covid' rate.
@ElwoodBlues I have heard about, and seen, some people becoming ill and having issues resembling covid and "long covid" after receiving the vaccine. It is tricking your body into thinking there is an invader by introducing a foreign substance into the system. This can have the effect of your body understanding that this will now be recognizable, thus acting appropriately and stopping you from becoming less ill if you do catch covid in the future. The other possibility, the one I allude to, is that this foreign substance is causing something similar to prolonged illness and confusion over time. It has also been known to damage the heart.
Young and healthy people do not need this vaccine. What we also don't need is, if true, scientists working on live viruses in Chinese labs and then letting them go free.
I am very happy to not be vaccinated. I had covid in late April–early May 2021, and it was fine.
@badlands [quote] I have heard about, and seen, some people becoming ill and having issues resembling covid and "long covid" after receiving the vaccine.[/quote] Do you have any evidence that this is anything more than a statistical rarity hyped up by anti-vaxxers too stubborn to admit their errors? Can you support this claim with data?? Or can you only back this claim with a few posts on facebook???
@ElwoodBlues I said "some", and this means it could be any number of people. You are using the words statistical rarity when I did not claim it was the majority, or a very large number. "Possibility" is the word I used. The body is being tricked, and it can help or not help. Vaccines like these are experimental.
I don't use facebook. Do you?
I have read some posts from two other users on this site, and they sound like you. Data, straw man, an unhealthy preoccupation with Trump and with covid...a pointless puzzle to think about, but a noticeable one nonetheless.
Politicians are called politicians for a reason........there are many diplomatic ways to say "genocide" without using the word for that specifically. Think for a second how many said in 50 different ways that trump is mentally ill...without using the words "mentally ill". "That is just how he is"..."he's narrcissistic" (that is a clinical word for a mental illness). Or......"'He says things his own way"....or......."trump's mouth cannot be controlled. He says whatever he wants".
By any measure we know what that means. NOT NORMAL...CRAZY...IRRATIONAL...DANGEROUS..
So just because no one has specifically heard AOL say the word "genocide".......read her past comments. She has said this "cleansing" has to end. She has said "this has gone too far" (not war...."this")...." this is now more than just getting even for being attacked." That is saying GENOCIDE.............you're just not listening.
Trump said............over 30,000 confirmed fact checked lies while in office and about double that many out of office and you don't mind that. He raped someone.......you all don't mind that. He was found guilty in his university scam and paid $25 million to avoid prison and you all don't mind that. He is paying......or having property seized to settle a $454 million judgment for decades of real estate fraud......bank fraud.....IRS fraud......and business fraud.........and you all don't mind that. He's facing RICO charges and 91 felonies........so far.....and you all don't mind that.
But if a politician says what any politician would.......dancing around something to be diplomatic...............OH MY GOD.......that is the worst thing ever.
@anythingoes477 No one can make sense of it... not even "the base." Even Insurrectionist-Cry-Baby-trump is literally astonished at how far he can go. And, that will be his ultimate downfall as it is with people who have this type of following. In their astonishment, they keep pushing the limits, greedy for more and more. At some point it will be too much and then the illusion will just deflate. It will be a hard landing for Cry-Baby-trump. "The base" will simply move on without him.
@badlands To a cult member trump has nothing to do with anything. He's just the poor, poor victim of world hate. And of course because of your cult mentality you completely missed the point of my response.
The point is.....,you have your panties in a wad because ONE politician responded to a question diplomatically. And yet we have never seen you object to any MAGA terrorist lie..... {(range Jesus and his stooges)........when they don't just dodge an issue diplomatically......they outright lie about everything. Why would a diplomatic way of responding to a question be horrible......but you all never seem to care if another "politician" lies every other word or spreads conspiracy theories untruths about EVERYTHING?
@sree251 says [quote] Covid is a flu virus. It's kill rate among the healthy is zero;[/quote] @badlands says [quote]Covid is a respiratory virus, which we always knew only hospitalized the sick, the obese, and the elderly[/quote]
MORE anecdotes!
Doug Kuzma swore he would stay home, but he died in the hospital of Covid. He caught it at "ReAwaken America" tour event in Dallas over the weekend of Dec. 10. Qanon star said only idiots get vax
Arkansas mom Angela Morris shares regret; 13 year old on ventilator Hollie Rivers regrets Missouri man, 26 after battle in hospital "Get it if you can"
@ElwoodBlues And? Some of these people survived covid. Young people who require this are in the minority. What is the problem?
The baby in the fourth photo is so cute. I feel bad that he and his siblings lost their dad. Would the vaccine have saved him? We don't know.
What is apparent is that these headlines are intended to scare us, to compel us to get the vaccine. I say take your chances if you are young and healthy, or just do what you feel is best.
AOC is doing everything right. She's more effective at winning over normies if she doesn't use the word "genocide," even though she knows that's what this is.
@BohemianBoo She knows that aid to Israel will never be conditional, unless there are somehow less Jews in the US, and Zionism miraculously falls apart, and they all become poor and powerless. When Sanders proposed the measure to make military aid to Israel conditional, it was rejected by all but 11 senators.
All Ocasio-Cortez can do is keep her integrity and not think about her career before what she feels is true. I think it is apparent it is a genocide, and when politicians say what they feel, people tend to listen to them more. Why do you think she was so scared to use this word? If she had any power and any ability to change anything, she would have said it.
[quote]When was covid serious?[/quote] CoViD was serious when it first appeared and for quite some time thereafter. It filled the hospitals with a large number of people who needed ventilators and who often did not recover.
Famously, some patients refused to believe that they had it; one woman (in Iowa?) told her nurse that "[she couldn't] be dying of CoViD, because it's not real"... Perhaps you drank from the same punch bowl.
[quote]What could he have done to prevent these "needless" deaths?[/quote]
1) He [i]could[/i] have told the truth about CoViD, instead of "downplaying its seriousness", as he told Bob Woodward in their recorded conversation.
If he had simply said what he told Woodward, he would have done a world of good. (He said--I'm representing this from memory, I have to get going--"If it were something you could only get from touching, it wouldn't be so bad; you can avoid touching things. But this is in the air--it's very bad.")
2) He could have refrained from offering bullshit treatments (UV light in the body, drinking bleach, taking Ivermectin).
[Yes, there are still idiots who are "offering ivermectin 'treatments' for CoViD", and they are offering a WORM treatment for a VIRUS. If you'd give your child gas to drink--because it's a liquid/wet--when he needs water, then you'll probably love using a worm treatment for a virus.]
3) He could have been part of a big publicity campaign to get vaccinated and had him, the First Lady, etc., get their vaccines on-camera.
Instead, he got them in private as he slunk out of the White House.
4) He could have told/asked Americans to get their vaccinations & follow the CDC guidelines at every opportunity.
5) He could have looked at what, e.g., Taiwan and New Zealand were doing (which worked) and done that here.
He could have been a hero; instead, he was just a fool talking out of both sides of his mouth.
Covid did more damage to the economy than anything else. The vaccines have caused harm too. Getting the covid vaccine is like deciding to have the virus when you otherwise may not have caught it, and it can change people. I am very glad to be unvaccinated.
Trump was very enthusiastic about the vaccine, and it has remained that he supports them. When did he say that people shouldn't get them? Most of what he talked about in 2020, apart from the election, was covid and the vaccines. He did everything a reasonable leader would do, which is try to keep the economy functioning, introduce a vaccine, and not force states to follow strict rules or mandates. Who stops people from going out over a respiratory virus, not dissimilar to the flu?
I think Trump should have kept the economy open to a greater extent, but he did well not to follow the same paths as other countries who have no respect or consideration for their citizens. It's good that he didn't copy Taiwan and New Zealand. The US is a country where people can be free, at least more free than other parts of the world.
@carpediem then prove me wrong. Israel was not created in unoccupied land. The Palestinians aka Philistines predate David. Not that it matters since the Israel we know today has only one thing in common with David and that is the assumed name of Israel. Israel today is a Rothschild vanity project not some Godly people returning to their promised land. That line on the Cross.
@carpediem and you hate Palestine while innocent Palestinians are being slaughter in the thousands by the very people you support. Does not look good on you because you support genocide. What Israel is doing to the Palestinians is no different than what the Nazis did to the Jews in Warsaw. I don't support Nazis whether they wear a swastika or a star if David or a crescent moon.
