Ocasio-Cortez won't call Gaza war a genocide, another lying politician

@Puppycat23 They were empty words. Her thoughts were "will this harm my career?"

What is your view? Is Israel innocent until proven guilty when we can all see the suffering and death in Gaza, with Israel doing nothing to stop it, in fact causing it?

They could allow aid if they wanted to; they could not bomb hospitals, schools, or people's homes; and they could do more for the children of Gaza. Where are their efforts to help children, who are innocent?

@Puppycat23 There are no questions to ask when children are starving and being bombed, it is clear to see, and they have the power to stop it and do not. Israel are allowing almost no aid, which is why Gaza is now in a famine. The only aid Israel has allowed are small numbers of aid packages by air, little to nothing via the crossings, and a shipment supposed to arrive today. It makes no difference if they are already malnourished, and only a few of them can get it.

They need to allow more trucks, thousands of them, over a period of months. Can you believe that there are Israelis protesting at the crossings? They have been for months. The trucks are always checked by Israel, these protesters know it is aid and supplies for the people, not weapons or materials intended for Hamas.

[quote]It’s not like they’re doing that for sh!ts and giggles[/quote]

Why are they doing it? Would you allow children to starve and bomb their homes, schools, and hospitals?

Gaza isn't a state. It belongs to the Palestinian territories. Those who live in Gaza have no choice but to live there, movement outside this territory isn't permitted. Only Israel and Egypt can permit it. Would you say "how can the children be helped?" if you saw an adult starving them and subjecting them to violent abuse? It's the child's fault, because they happen to have this person as their daddy, and their daddy is a bad man. Children in Gaza have no control over who leads them and what their leaders do with their power. Israel can claim no moral superiority, and it is behaving like a beast.

Bernie Sanders also introduced a measure to condition military aid to Israel, but it was struck down.

@hippyjoe1955

[quote]Israel is the aggressor here[/quote]

Israel did not attack israeli civilians on October 7th. No country is perfect but every country has a right to defend themselves and that includes Israel.

[quote]You really need better sources of information. Including the fact that More Israelis were killed by Israel.than Hamas on Oct 7[/quote]

The go pros Hamas wore to film their murders are on the internet, they shared them for all to see and are archived for all to see. That provides a lot of evidence. The moral of the story, if you don’t want to rat yourself off when you commit a crime don’t film yourself in the act.

@badlands

[quote]There are no questions to ask when children are starving and being bombed, it is clear to see, and they have the power to stop it and do not. Israel are allowing almost no aid, which is why Gaza is now in a famine. [/quote]

Now you’re just spreading misinformation.

[quote]“Israel is already facilitating the entry of more than 1,000 trucks of aid to Gaza per week and stands ready to do more. On March 3, Israel inspected and transferred 277 humanitarian aid trucks into Gaza.

Since Hamas initiated the war on October 7, 280,080 tons of aid have entered on 15,207 trucks.
Israel is facilitating massive amounts of humanitarian assistance to Gaza — including food, water, medicine, fuel, and shelter supplies — despite Hamas continuing indiscriminate rocket fire on Israeli civilians while holding over 130 Israelis hostage.

Substantial amounts of this aid are not reaching Gazan civilians in a timely manner due to the ineffectiveness of the U.N. and humanitarian organizations at processing and distributing the aid. Hamas contributes to the problem by regularly stealing and diverting aid intended for civilians.”[/quote]

https://www.aipac.org/resources/israel-humanitarian-aid-gaza?format=amp

[quote]The only aid Israel has allowed are small numbers of aid packages by air, [/quote]

The U.S. is the one doing that.

https://apnews.com/article/airdrops-israel-gaza-palestinians-biden-9e6cfb3a2c7d909ca2a8a2abd25793ca

[quote]Why are they doing it?[/quote]

They’ve got drone footage of Hamas terrorists setting up missles to shoot near buildings that end up becoming targets.

[image=https://x.com/michaelh992/status/1724055703579447440?s=20]

@badlands

[quote]Those who live in Gaza have no choice but to live there, movement outside this territory isn't permitted. Only Israel and Egypt can permit it.[/quote]

Yeah they have no choice but to live there because of Hamas. Egypt isn’t allowing Gazans to stay in Egypt because of Hamas’ connection to the Muslim Brotherhood that caused trouble during Arab Spring uprising a decade ago.

[quote] if you saw an adult starving them and subjecting them to violent abuse? It's the child's fault[/quote]

If I saw an adult starving and abusing their kid it’s the fault of the adult for doing so, they had the option to not treat their child in a terrible manner but they did the opposite for their own reasons. Just like it’s Hamas has/had the option to agree to a ceasefire but has refused to do so for their own reasons. That was the main point when I said how can children be helped when Hamas (the leaders of Gaza) doesn’t want a ceasefire.

[quote] Children in Gaza have no control over who leads them and what their leaders do with their power. [/quote]

You’re right they don’t have any control, but their leaders do and they want this war to continue.

@Puppycat23 What misinformation am I spreading? Tell me.

Are those links supposed to prove anything? The Aipac site has an "about" page which reads "AIPAC brings together Democrats and Republicans to advance our shared mission. Building bipartisan support for the U.S.-Israel relationship is an American value we are proud to champion."

It also says: "The U.S.-Israel relationship is a mutually beneficial partnership that saves lives and advances American interests and values, helps protect our troops, strengthens our economy, and addresses 21st century challenges."

Do you think they may be somewhat biased? Do you trust any organization using terms like "American interests" in a promotional manner?

Far less aid has gone into Gaza since this war began, and they are more displaced and starving than they ever were.

The airdrops would have been agreed to by Israel. 38,000 meals, only enough for one day, dropped from the sky is not enough to feed such a large population for a sustained period of time. Can you not see that?

Drone footage? I suppose this means they should not let any aid into Gaza, then? They have drone footage of daddy (to use the analogy again) misbehaving, so that makes it all alright. We can be assured in the knowledge that all of it is justified. Nothing to see in these parts! The babies being starved and left to die have no idea what a Palestinian or Israeli is, or who Hamas are, but it is fine for them to die because they live in a territory where monsters are said to exist, and where you matter much less.

Maybe their leaders want it to continue, maybe they don't. It doesn't matter what they think anymore. Someone has to walk away. Nothing good has come from Israel.

@badlands

The misinformation you’re spreading is the lie that Israel hasn’t sent any humanitarian aid AT ALL. When the evidence is there that they have. They aren’t stopping others from bringing in humanitarian aid either.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-ready-let-ships-bring-aid-gazas-shores-minister-2023-12-31/

Those links are to prove that you are biased. Even your comment that Israel has agreed to the U.S. to send air dropped goods contradicted your claim that Israel hasn’t done anything.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-03-06-2024-3e4bc85bc4e184312763fc331fbffedb


[quote]Drone footage? [/quote]

Drone footage of Hamas setting up rockets to shoot near a hospital, you asked and I sent you a video. What did you expect?

@Puppycat23 I said "the only aid Israel has allowed are small numbers of aid packages by air, little to nothing via the crossings, and a shipment supposed to arrive today."

In other words, the aid is not enough. It is very far from being enough. All Israel has to do is facilitate more aid coming through its two crossings and not have the same trucks lined up for days. They can dedicate the resources to this, and they could send them through. A ceasefire can be agreed to, without the release of remaining hostages, given that it is necessary to feed and provide medical assistance to children and families in Gaza.

The Reuters article you have linked is more than two months old, and the other one is telling me that Israel is under "pressure" to allow aid into Gaza. Are you finding any articles with the words aid, Gaza, and Israel and then including them here?

Shipments have not been allowed, up until now. Do you think one shipment can feed over two million people?

Agreeing to air drop 38,000 food packages is nothing.

This footage is irrelevant. Rockets will either go astray, not hit anything, or get intercepted by the iron dome.

You aren't Jewish. Why do you defend Israel?

@badlands

[quote]The Reuters article you have linked is more than two months old, and the other one is telling me that Israel is under "pressure" to allow aid into Gaza. Are you finding any articles with the words aid, Gaza, and Israel and then including them here?[/quote]

Because I’m giving examples that Israel has been sending aid/working on sending aid for some time rather than not doing anything as what your claim was hours ago.

[quote]You aren't Jewish. Why do you defend Israel?
[/quote]

And you aren’t a Muslim defending Gaza. So what’s your point?

[b]“This footage is irrelevant. Rockets will either go astray, not hit anything, or get intercepted by the iron dome.”[/b]

And some of those rockets do hit Israeli cities. But still it leans into the fact that Israel isn’t hitting buildings in Gaza for sh!ts and giggles.

@badlands

[quote]Shipments have not been allowed, up until now. Do you think one shipment can feed over two million people?[/quote]

The first round of shipments started in October 22nd of 2023 and have continued wver since so what are you even on about?

@Puppycat23 They are doing something; they are turning away from hungry children, denying them food and medical supplies, and collapsing their homes.

How does one "work" on sending aid for a five month period?

I was referring to sea shipments, as opposed to the other shipments. You included a Reuters article that said Israel is "ready" to allow this into Gaza, but that was ten weeks ago. They had to be compelled to allow this recent aid by sea, arriving on a Spanish ship coming from Cyprus. US said they have sent some of the construction supplies to build a new port in Gaza, which would take weeks if not months.

@badlands

[quote]They are doing something; they are turning away from hungry children, denying them food and medical supplies, and collapsing their homes. [/quote]

And yet you have no evidence that they are denying them food, turning away hungry children and denying medical supplies when food and medical supplies have been shipped and sent to Gaza.
Edit: and given that those articles were ten weeks ago, then there’s a pretty good chance that aid was delivered.
At this point you’re just biased.

@Puppycat23 If they are not denying them, why are there so few aid trucks going into Gaza? "So few" is much less than what there were before, and almost none when we consider the population of Gaza and areas in the north that are very besieged.

Shipments from sea have not entered Gaza yet. This is very clear. The first one, the one I mentioned, is soon to arrive. How desperate does it have to be when this is what we are resorting to?

Why do you think a port is being built if Israel is not trying to stop aid? Trucks, enough of them, are not being allowed to enter. Israel will refuse or block entry before any can be sent, they will let them wait there for days, or the the IDF will block entry. They may not block entry every time, but what are they doing blocking entry any of the time? At least 14 trucks were denied entry last week. A very large delivery of aid was sent from Turkey, and Israel caused a delay with it. Did you also hear about all those killed when they were trying to get food?

What bias do you think I have?

@badlands
Why are you biased? Well first you claimed that Israel hasn’t sent aid at all when the evidence suggests otherwise, then you claim Israel only agreed to airdroping aid when they also agreed to allow 100 trucks of humanitarian aid a day way before the U.S. decision to airdrop aid.

[quote]If they are not denying them, why are there so few aid trucks going into Gaza? [/quote]

You’ve ever heard of inspections? Making sure there’s nothing on those trucks that could cause harm to civilians in Gaza getting that aid. Or better yet making sure there are no weapons that Hamas could get that might be hidden on some of those aid trucks? There are plenty of reasons why a majority of those aid trucks are waiting to enter into Gaza.

@Puppycat23 How would that make me biased?

The only thing Israel sends to Gaza is misery. If you read what I said, you will see that I never claimed Israel allows "no aid at all." I said they allow very little aid. This may as well be none because people are starving. What would cause less starvation? Much more aid. 100 trucks a day isn't adequate for the needs of Gaza.

It doesn't take long to inspect aid trucks and see that everything being sent is food or medical supplies. Why did they send away trucks, which only had food and medical supplies?

I am trying to work out why you defend this country, why you are making excuses for them.

@badlands

[quote]How would that make me biased?

The only thing Israel sends to Gaza is misery[/quote].

You just answered your own question.

[quote]I said they allow very little aid. [/quote]

That’s not what you said several hours ago

[quote]Israel are allowing almost no aid[/quote]

[quote]It doesn't take long to inspect aid trucks and see that everything being sent is food or medical supplies.[/quote]

Says who?


[quote]I am trying to work out why you defend this country, why you are making excuses for them. [/quote]

Because I am not one sided. There have been times when Israel has been in the wrong and other times when they’ve been in the right. One of those rights is Israels response to a terrorist attack that many people have an issue with being that a country they don’t like shouldn’t defend itself from terrorism which is ridiculous and rubs me the wrong way. Followed by the belief that this country shouldn’t exist and 9+ million people should go elsewhere. Many of you will ignore all the times Hamas has antagonized Israel into another conflict or completely ignore why there is a blockade in Gaza falsely claiming that their is some apartheid or racial hatred against Palestinians just for being arab. It’s also no secret that some Pro-Palestinian supporters are antisemitic and will spread false information regardless, which is also why I defend Israel.

@Puppycat23 What else do you think they send?

I said they allow little to no aid, when we consider the population of Gaza. Over two million people live in Gaza, and most of them are going without an adequate amount of food, with large numbers now starving.

How many more times do I need to tell you this?

Why do you think it takes a long time to inspect aid? How long do you think it would take, per truck, if it was aid Israel needed?

The conditions leading to ongoing conflict and the way you defend your territory are very important. Israel is crushing Palestinians in the West Bank, and Palestinians in Gaza are treated like they are caged animals or prison inmates. Israel has no dialogue with Hamas, and does nothing to ease the plight of Palestinians living in these areas. It is a policy of neglect, while maintaining the control. Israel has kept the conditions creating this confinement and the war in place. They will keep restricting them while refusing to address the issue of statehood and abstain from any more land grab, and that leads to very miserable and unhappy people.

I like what Jesus says, when he says you should turn the other cheek, and that those who draw the sword will die by the sword. Violence is very destructive. Being human is hard though, God gave us choices. Hamas is a violent group. What they did on October 7th is evil. The actions of Israel in response, and all of their actions predating this war, are evil.
Believing that your needs or desires are more important is how evil forms. While Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza, and and other Palestinian territories, struggle and live in their forced displacement, Israelis go to the beach, and they have fun, and they go to music festivals. This isn't right. I am me, not you, so it is the perspective that I have come to develop or see that informs everything I say here. After all has been said and done, and the 76 years since 1948 have passed, everything is still the same, or worse. I don't want to see starving children, bombed children, or any kind of dying or dead child. Some people don't care, they don't share this perspective. They either want it or are indifferent to it. I have to live with that.

Hamas is a small group, but Israel is a country, a country with people who are informed, who can think about what they want and whether their conscience can withstand what is happening. It is very easy to say you would do the right thing, that you care about the other side, when you are living in relative peace and joy. Israel has since changed, with people becoming more vengeful and uncaring, when they stopped having relative peace and joy.

@badlands


[quote]I said they allow little to no aid,[/quote]

What exactly is little because sending in 100 trucks of humanitarian supplies a day in not little. But to add in that Israel is sending no aid at all when the evidence proves that Israel is, even allowing other countries to send humanitarian aid is an issue with your information and not with what's going on in that region. You repeat that the aid sent is not enough to feed everyone while Ignoring the fact that most of that aid doesn't even reach most Palestinians in need due to evidence that Hamas steals most of it and shoots anyone attempting to take some for their own. It's not hard to see that this isn't a black and white issue.

[quote]Israelis go to the beach, and they have fun, and they go to music festivals.[/quote]

Well funny you say that because there have been plenty of videos shared on TikTok and Twitter of people from Gaza posting videos of what their life was like BEFORE October 7th with them going to nice beach resorts, exploring a variety of shops, malls, parks, coffee shops, bakery shops, and restaurants in their city/ across the city, including what the night life was like, some have shown off their luxury apartment/ house/ car, even taking trips to other countries as most of them have a passport, etc. Which is the opposite of being caged like prison inmates. Sure there have been problems between the Israeli government and Palestinians but all the claims that Gaza is a concentration camp where all civilians lived in constant hell and were miserable due to Israeli rule was not true. So at the end of the day, what was this terrorist attack on Israel, kidnapping of both Israeli and international citizens, and parading dead bodies of Israeli citizens in Gaza square really about?

@Puppycat23 100 trucks a day for a population of around two million? This number is nothing. At least 500 trucks a day were entering Gaza before the war, and that is when they were not being bombed or were close to famine. I also told you that Israel often delays these trucks, or refuses their entry.

You say "Hamas steals most of it," but where is your evidence they steal most of it? If they are stealing most of it, what is wrong with the idea of having a longer ceasefire, or stopping the war, so more aid can be sent and given to civilians? There are aid agencies in Gaza. What do you think they are busy doing?

A UN report says that 80% of Gaza was impoverished before the war. I read that 50%–70% of Gazans do not have passports. The videos you mention, if they are real, are probably from people our age (assuming you are my age) making comparisons between life now and life then. Gaza had a blockade, and most of its people lived in poverty and were also subject to high taxes and intermittent conflict, but their lives would have still been better. This does not mean they had good lives, or that they were being treated well. Israel was still in control of most of it. Hamas were still subjecting them to the taxes I mentioned—taxes that are unreasonable to most.

Can you provide a link to any relevant videos?

[quote]So at the end of the day, what was this terrorist attack on Israel, kidnapping of both Israeli and international citizens, and parading dead bodies of Israeli citizens in Gaza square really about?[/quote]

How many people did that? It wasn't two million, one million, half a million, a quarter of a million, or 100,000...

We can be certain that babies weren't doing it.

If you saw Hamas enter a nursery or day care, would you still bomb it?

@badlands

Life before October 7th

[media=https://tiktok.com/7344073501814295810]

[media=https://tiktok.com/7345290385045933330]

[media=https://tiktok.com/7337654178673741058]

Apparently he was a food blogger before the war
[media=https://tiktok.com/7317921312209489159]

Another food blogger
[media=https://tiktok.com/7264550731280076034]

The restaurant is located in Gaza city, Gaza
[image=https://www.facebook.com/profile.php/?id=100066644511020]

Bridal store in Gaza
[media=https://tiktok.com/7340378638363151634]

@Puppycat23 What are they saying? That Gaza had food before the war, and that people could visit the beach and go to a bridal store? Israel still had a blockade on Gaza, and they have still had lands and homes taken from them, and some are still old enough to remember that. They were piled into this area against their will. Poverty was very high in Gaza, and affected most of the population. That said, most were able to make the best of their lives.

Hamas steals some aid, but it is disingenuous to suggest they steal all of it. Why does it matter? Less aid than before the war is being allowed in, yet the need has increased significantly. Hamas shooting civilians, and stealing aid, only further points to Gazans being a victim, a people who need help. Most had no role in October 7th, and they should not be punished for it. Israel has the power to agree to an unconditional ceasefire, and they have the power to ensure that the children of Gaza receive more aid, but they choose not to do that. They choose to allow less aid, and they choose to continue bombing, knowing they are mostly killing civilians. Hamas has around 40,000 members, and Israel has killed over 30,000 people. Half of them are children. Most of them are not Hamas. How many more do they have to kill to "destroy Hamas"? Where is the IDF when Hamas are stealing aid?

[quote]What’s the reason for Hamas to enter into a daycare holding kids hostage?[/quote]

The question is why Israel still bombs the day care. If it were you, would you still bomb it? What they do doesn't matter. Hamas are the terrorists, remember? "Terrorist" would imply that the expectations are lower, and care for the safety of others may be compromised, as it would be with any person willing to risk other lives or harm other people to achieve what they want. Children can't consent to this martyrdom.
The lives of the children, in the end, are in my hands. Do I walk away or still bomb them?

@badlands

[quote] The question is why Israel still bombs the day care. [/quote]

Because Hamas wants them to that’s why Hamas went into the daycare in the first place. Duh